shanlung

Vitali, I made no secret of where I read and stated clearly 7 Taoist Masters translated Eva Wong. I smile at the way you felt compelled to add it was but a folk novel to denigrate the content of that book. That book talked about verified historical people , written in about that time. I therefore have a lot more faith in that then your assertation that you knew, and the only authority and now teaching the mind of Wang Chong Yang. I do not doubt your right to say whatever you want to say. I have the right to decide what I want to believe. Do tell me the difference between 7 known students and your assertion that Wang had many more but very little is known about them. If little is known about them as you said in your own words, then what was transmitted down from them to be passed on to you? To me, if little is known about them, they equate to zero and is crossed out from my list even if they exist in a list that you created. We all here know about Qiu Changchun and his patronage from no less then Genghis Khan himself directly. I wrote of Genghis inviting Changchun to meet him and even provided the letter from the Khan , and Changchun reply to the Khan. Do amuse yourself to go read that thread. http://thetaobums.com/topic/31861-an-end-to-killing-taoist-movie/ You did not give the answer that I am seeking as to how the transmission of Wang Chong Yang went down the centuries , emerging suddenly into the world via you and with Lu Shiyang (吕實陽) conveniently now living as a hermit in some forlorn mountain in China. Other than you will write of that later and you only can give fragments now. I understand time is needed to flesh out the details to the best of your ability. But surely, with such an astonishing find like your LuShiyang, surely that be best told with all details instead of promises to write later? You must understand I encountered a fraud and plagiariser Deng Ming Dao 20 years ago or so. I think I was the first one to document the plagiarising that he did and with that fake Kwan Sai Hung he created Deng & Blofield works. Is it ethical?http://thetaobums.com/topic/27637-deng-blofield-works-is-it-ethical/ I am not saying you are fraudulent. But in claiming much and no less than the mantle of Wang Chong Yang, surely you must be able to prove that beyond the shadow of doubt? And do not claim me to be part of the opposing Russian cartel as I am about the most clearly documented entity of this forum with absolutely no connection to Russia or to any Taoist cartel where ever they might be. My coming and goings over the last 20 years well documented in my blog and other writings even if they focused more on birdies and beasties. And then seek to get me gagged so I can no longer ask inconvenient questions. Taoistic Idiot

I have some thoughts on that even before this thread appeared. First of all, any knowledge I have on QuanZhen is very limited, consisting of what I read long time ago of that book 7 Taoist Masters translated by Eva Wong. I happily admit the book written in Chinese was too much of a heavy going for me. Then later we all know via wikipedia that those 7 disciples went on to found their own schools and clearly had not continued on with the transmission of Wang Chong Yang QuanZhen pai. Those 7 were the only known disciples of Master Wang. And it seemed that they all went their separate ways and into separate schools with different focuses. off hand, I know one of them finally getting into the last stage in a brothel financed by forgery gold he made from stones. Another got into the final stage by digging holes in cliff wall for other Taoists to meditate in and another got into final stage carrying passerbys across a rive on his back. Then who continued on the line of Wang ChongYang? His lineage seemed to end with the blossoming of those recognised 7 lineages transmitted down. That lineage of Wang Chong Yang remained so quiet and hidden over the centuries suddenly erupting on the page of TBM? I was hoping to find some enlightenment on this through the smoke and mirrors that cloaked those centuries. Please throw pearls towards me. Idiot on the Path

It was not just with K yoga. Later on, I was with this Taoist monk and was taught the circulation of the Ren Mai and Du Mai. Again, I found I needed about 4 hours of sleep. Other distractions came into my life and I stopped those exercises. And sleep went back to normal 7-8 hours I will not even attempt any explanation why less sleep was needed during those times. Idiotic Taoist

30++ years ago , I was doing Kundalini Yoga with an Indian Master. I was sleeping about 4 hours a day then. For those with idle curiosity, I am now sleeping about 7 hours or so a day. Idiotic Taoist

HA HA HA You more eloquent than I am. But then, what can an idiot add to what you said. I enjoy seeing the moss too. Maybe I should check out the moss in your neck of the woods. And perhaps to watch them grow, or if not enough time, to watch them breath. Taoistic Idiot

Walker, I happily admit I see stuff with my prejudice. I cannot know how to see stuff with your prejudice, opps, with your intellect. Idiot on the Path.

I was doing about 6 hours a day when I gave about my heart and soul into taijichuan. Even when just ticking over and to stay in touch with taijichuan, I was doing about 90-120 minutes a day. The details of what I was doing can be read in this thread, starting here http://thetaobums.com/topic/24575-taijiquan-styles/page-3 A bit more in here http://thetaobums.com/topic/28288-taiji-quan/ And scattered about here and there in various taijichuan threads Taoistic Idiot

Booting this up. Idiot on the Path

In this searching for God, it seems Westerners cannot let go of their cherished sentiments that there must be a God and will look for that where ever they are and even in Taoism as well. Even when the first few phrases of the Tao Te Ching started that cannot be the way. I wrote of this about a year ago in this forum Tao ke Tao, and where is God Folks who are new here might find this interesting and I reproduced what I wrote in here. aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa Tao ke Tao , fei chang Tao Ming ke Ming, fei chang Ming The Tao that you think is the Tao, is not the Tao The Name that you think is the Name, is not the Name I think my first reading of Tao Te Ching was when I was 12 or 13 years old. It did not took long for me to decide what I was reading was so laughable and corny. I went back to read TTC again and again, and yet again , and again. The TTC grew from a very thin pamphlet into volume thicker than telephone directory. That simple thin pamphlet I recalled reading was the best. No interpretations and conjured stories to bury what LaoTzu wrote that can then be copywrited. And the one was was corny was that little boy of 12. How many of us read and re read the TTC in all its different versions from the thin to the thick? And read the first couple of sentences, threw them aside and kept digging in the left over bath waters? And kept asking what is the Tao. Even to castigate Chuangtzu for not being a real Taoist as his writings never contained and invoke Tao. For all I know, LaoTzu was only a Pretender as he certaining talked of the Tao , even if his first couple of sentences denied everything he wrote subsequently. When the Tao is beyond immeasurable and beyond infinite, even to think of the Tao and its concept, you cannot but defined the Tao, the Undefinable Tao , within the concept of what you think is the Tao. Likewise, the Name that you try to give to that Name. Imprisoned the real Name into the representation you made in your mind of that Name. The Name so vast and primordial all squeezed into a tiny container of the Name? Perhaps that came from the great East and West divide. The West, be it Chrisitianity, Judaism or Islam, demanded the concept of God. And the East? Godless or the refusal to accept the concept of God. But I have so say Judaism tried to limit the damage by evoking unpronouncable JHWH. Which failed as that became Jehovah, and yet another name. But again, if God is that infinite and everywhere, by giving the thought of God, are people then differentiating anything outside their thought of what God is is then not God? Is God that limited ? That God must exist only within that name, or concept, of GOD? Or the limitation came from the very thinking of the concept God. So those that want to talk of God, tell me then, where is your God. And why do you wish to limit your God by talking of Him , and of his Name. My first posting into here came as a hit on a very old webpage I did about 10 years ago, and based on earlier writings I did on BBS before the Internet. I reproduce that here, what was said by Taoist Master Tseng Lao Weng. http://www.shanlung....taonirvana.html aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa ENLIGHTENMENT From: khamba2 - Date: Wed, Jun 2 1999 12:00 am Groups: alt.philosophy.taoism Paul Humphries <[email protected]> wrote: >Hi! >I feel a bit skeptical about enlightenment at the moment, so wish to ask >some questions to anyone who has any ideas.. >When a person reaches the state of pure, total enlightment and absolute >truth, what does this mean? Is it that they are now learning openly to >the greatest of their potential? What sort of knowledge of reality >emerges? What abilities does this give the person? How many truely >enlightened masters exist, do you think? How do they live? Would they >have any preferences in taste in music? >Cheers! Sorry that I am answering with this is an old letter. I do hope the words of Taoist Master Tseng Lao Weng can answer a bit of your question even if he did not mention his preferences for music be it classical, hard rock or heavy metal. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------­---- I have mourned that many of my books stayed back in my home town while I was wandering ,working and staying elsewhere. But a selection of John Blofeld's books followed me. I thought I quote one of my favorite portion from his book 'Taoism, The Secret and Sublime' which may help others understand and decide for themselves if Taoism is a philosophy or a religion. I myself, never did feel that either path is important. He was talking to this Taoist Master Tseng Lao Weng. (now using also his format and capitalizations..) -------------------------------------------------------- Having heard from me of Sir Edwin Arnold's lovely expression for entering Nirvana, 'the dew-drop slips into the shining sea', he exclaimed with delight, but added: 'And yet it does not capture the whole. Since the Tao is all and nothing lies outside it, since its multiplicity and unity are identical, when a finite being sheds the illusion of separate existence, he is not lost in the Tao. By casting off his imaginary limitations, he becomes immeasurable. Plunge the finite into the infinite and, though only one remains, the finite, far from being diminished, takes on the stature of infinity. Such perception will bring you face to face with the true secret cherished by all the accomplished sages. The mind of one who returns to the Source thereby BECOMES the Source. Your own mind is DESTINED TO BECOME THE UNIVERSE ITSELF!' The Taoistic Idiot

Probably enough words to write ten Tao Te Ching. And more then enough words to entangle the mind. If GOD required that many words to know, then the more words the more God will be known? Idiotic Taoist

I find it hilarious that ChiDragon, himself a fake imagining all kinds of chi running up and down and thinking his theory peppered with chinese words normally taken out of context, can comment on real Masters of Taijichuan. But again, what else is new from Chidragon.

A spiritual herb to be treated and used sparingly with great respect. Taoistic Idiot

Thank you! The China and Temples and Places of my main guide and inspiration into the Path, Mr John Blofeld Idiotic Taoist

Go with Wuwei, and you always go with the Tao Further thoughts on wu wei http://www.shanlung.com/oldwuwei.html Taoistic Idiot

When you question if that is with the Tao or not with the Tao, you are not with the Tao. Think less and question less , and you are with the Tao. Idiotic Taoist

For all it is worth, for those who might not have seen my report I made of my meeting a Taoist Immortal, or Siddhi, or whatever name you want to give. I cannot say more than what I wrote in that report. Whether you believe, or not believe, is your choice to make. Fragments of earlier memories of Taiwan http://shanlung.livejournal.com/111670.html

Thank you! Never heard that before, But I enjoy the singer, and his song.

Jing jao yeo jiu Jing jao jui Now I got the wine, Now I go get drunk Or Enjoy the present Forget the tomorrow Idiotic Taoist

Who is Satan? He exist? Like that story about that woman and flooding of a city? Only inside your head? You trying to make Satan exist together with demons ? They lived in the city that was flooded? I think I have enough of your thoughts which are also so boring. The best place for you is inside an ignore bin. Byebye

H If you have just mentioned of the millions killed by Genghis Khan, I probably would not even have bothered to enter the thread as he did kill millions. During the Warring States of China, even without G Khan, 20% of the population were recorded alive at end of that period. I always thought of the saying when elephants fight, the grass suffer. And on top of that, when elephants make love, the grass suffer as well. I just wanted to point out that started when he not only had no recourse from Khwarezmian Shah but even more insults such as the sending back of the ambassadors heads with their turbans nailed into the skull. Why not you take it up with that Shah for the horrors that visited his land? Why beat up Genghis for reacting the way that I probably would have reacted in similar way if I was him? You telling us all you be that much different and laugh and joke over those kind of insults and send more ambassadors to have their heads cut off and turbans nailed to heads and returned to you? How many times you intend to turn your cheek? Until your cheek bone shattered and you keep turning your cheek? And you expect everyone to do it your way and your style? Genghis Khan valued top people, and Subotei his great general was once fighting against him and yet raised to the level of Field Marshall of Mongols and Genghis sons had to listen to SUbotei. A man paranoid of others smarter than himself would not have such people serving him. What I laugh at is the mealy mouth attempt by the conjured story which existed only in your imagination and not in reality. Or you telling us all that indeed what you alleged actually occured? And what if you find events to be despicable? What is that to me? That my decisions must depend first on your decisions? Taoistic Idiot ROTFLMAO :D

I find it fascinating that Chang Chun zi (Taoist name of Qiu Chuji) was regarded as the least talented of the students of Wang Chongyang, at least in the fascinating story of the 7 Taoist Masters translated by Eva Wong. Those really interested in the Tao should get their hands on this book. Another fascinating aspect that even though Wang Chongyang was such a Master, his disciples went on to set their own schools. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wang_Chongyang Ma Yu (馬鈺) founded the Yuxian lineage (Meeting the Immortals) Tan Chuduan (譚處端) founded the Nanwu lineage (Southern Void) Liu Chuxuan (劉處玄) founded the Suishan lineage (Mount Sui) Qiu Chuji (丘處機) founded the Longmen lineage (Dragon Gate) Wang Chuyi (王處一) founded the Yushan lineage (Mount Yu) Hao Datong (郝大通) founded the Huashan lineage (Mount Hua) Sun Bu'er (孫不二) founded the Qingjing lineage (Clarity and Stillness) Those here insisting on one and only one path might give above a bit of thought. Those who think Genghis Khan only interest was in destruction might give a thought to the era he was in. He moved against the Khwarezmian Empire only after the trade caravans Genghis send to establish trading ties were first looted by a governor. And Mongol ambassadors send to appeal to Shah Ala ad-Din Muhammad were beheaded and their heads send back to Genghis Khan. You suggest Genghis should twiddle his thumb? That story given by Isimsiz Biri is laughable. Nothing more than clumsy attempt to smear Genghis Khan. His army and tactics used by Genghis Khan were not repeated until the time of the First World War. As to the man who was Genghis Khan, consider his request to Chang Chung. That was made a few times. Genghis , if he was such a ruthless bastard, would have just send a touman to drag ChangChun to him by the roots of his hair. His final invitation to Chang Chun (which was accepted) is still in existence. Read and decide for yourself what kind of man would write those humble words. aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa extract from http://depts.washington.edu/silkroad/texts/changchun.html [Chinghis Khan's letter of invitation to Ch'ang ch'un] //[p.37] Heaven has abandoned China owing to its haughtiness and extravagant luxury. But I, living in the northern wilderness, have not inordinate passions. I hate luxury and exercise moderation. I have only one coat and one food. I eat the same food and am dressed in the same tatters as my humble herdsmen. I consider the people my //[p.38] children, and take an interest in talented men as if they were my brothers. We always agree in our principles, and we are always united by mutual affection. At military exercises I am always in the front, and in time of battle am never behind. In the space of seven years I have succeeded in accomplishing a great work, and uniting the whole world in one empire. I have not myself dis- tinguished qualities. But the government of the Kin is inconstant, and therefore Heaven assists me to obtain the throne (of the Kin). The Sung to the south, the Hui ho to the north, the Hia to the east, and the barbarians in the west, all together have acknowledged my supremacy. It seems to me that since the remote time of our shan yü such a vast empire has not been seen. But as my calling is high, the obligations incumbent on me are also heavy; and I fear that in my ruling there may be something wanting. To cross a river we make boats and rudders. Likewise we invite sage men, and choose out assistants for keeping the empire in good order. Since the time I came to the throne I have always taken to heart the ruling of my people; but I could not find worthy men to occupy the places of the three (kung) and the nine (k'ing). With respect to these circumstances I inquired, and heard that thou, master, hast penetrated the truth, and that thou walkest in the path of right. Deeply learned and much experienced, thou hast much explored the laws. Thy sanctity is become manifest. Thou hast conserved the rigorous rules of the ancient sages. Thou art endowed with the eminent talents of celebrated men. For a long time thou hast lived in the caverns of the rocks, and hast retired from //[p.39] the world; but to thee the people who have acquired sanctity repair, like clouds on the path of the immortals, in innumerable multitudes. I knew that after the war thou hadst continued to live in Shan tung, at the same place, and I was always thinking of thee. I know the stories of the returning from the river Wei in the same cart, and of the invitations in the reed hut three times repeated. But what shall I do? We are separated by mountains and plains of great extent, and I cannot meet thee. I can only descend from the throne and stand by the side. I have fasted and washed . I have ordered my adjutant, Liu Chung lu, to prepare an escort and a cart for thee. Do not be afraid of the thousand li. I implore thee to move thy sainted steps. Do not think of the extent of the sandy desert. Commiserate the people in the present situation of affairs, or have pity upon me, and communicate to me the means of preserving life. I shall serve thee myself. I hope that at least thou wilt leave me a trifle of thy wisdom. Say only one word to me and I shall be happy. In this letter I have briefly expressed my thoughts, and hope that thou wilt understand them. I hope also that thou, having penetrated the principles of the great tao, sympathisest with all that is right, and wilt not resist the wishes of the people. Given on the 1st day of the 5th month (May 15),1219. [Chang ch'un's answer to Chinghiz:] //[p.40] K'iu Ch'u ki [=Ch'ang chun], from Si hia hien, devoted to the tao, received lately from afar the most high decree. I must observe that all the people near the sea-shore are without talent. I confess that in worldly matters I am dull, and have not succeeded in investigating the tao, although I tried hard in every possible way. I have grown old and am not yet dead. My repute has spread over all kingdoms; but as to my sanctity, I am not better than ordinary people, and when I look inwards, I am deeply ashamed of myself. Who knows my hidden thoughts? Before this I have had several invitations from the southern capital and from the Sung, and have not gone. But now, at the first call of the Dragon court (he means the Mongol court), I am ready. Why? I have heard that the emperor has been gifted by Heaven with such valour and wisdom as has never been seen in ancient times or in our own days. Majestic splendour is accompanied by justice. The Chinese people as well as the barbarians have acknowledged the emperor's supremacy. At first I was undecided whether I would hide myself in the mountains or flee (to an island) into the sea, but I dared not oppose the order. I decided to brave frost and snow in order to be once presented to the emperor. I heard at first that your Majesty's chariot was not farther than north of Huan chou and Fu chou. But after arriving at Yen (Peking), I was informed that it had moved far away, it was not known how many thousand li. Storm and dust never cease obscuring the heavens. I am //[p. 41] old and infirm, and fear that I shall be unable to endure the pains of such a long journey, and that perhaps I cannot reach your majesty; and even should I reach, I would not be good for anything. Public affairs and affairs of war are not within my capacity. The doctrine of the tao teaches to restrain the passions; but that is a very difficult task. Considering these reasons, I conferred with Liu Chung lu, and asked him that I might wait in Yen or in Te hing (now Pao an chou) the return of your majesty. But he would not agree to that, and thus I myself undertook to lay my case before the emperor. I am anxious to satisfy the desire of your majesty, and to brave frost and snow, wherefore I solicit the decision (whether I shall start or wait). We were four who at the same time became ordained monks. Three have attained sanctity. Only I have undeservedly the repute of a sainted man. My appearance is parched, my body is weak. I am waiting for your majesty's order. Written in the 3rd month (April) of 1220. Idiotic Taoist

You know the only constant in life is that changes will take place Blues of Billy Blues/ / There was this dog // That breeding Formosan Bluebirds that I missed http://shanlung.livejournal.com/145113.html I do not need to wander on paths to strange temples to be a Taoistic Idiot. I can do other things too and remain an Idiotic Taoist, even in Dubai Idiot on the Path

Shit aint no shit unless the shit hit the fan. And nothing to be concerned about unless you are where the fan points to. Yup! I was once in such a position. Most illuminating, especially as I made sure that would not happen again. Idiot on the Path

Strange places that ox brought me to. Running about QingHai Plateau Part 1 of 2 http://shanlung.livejournal.com/142996.html Running about QingHai Plateau Part 2 of 2 http://shanlung.livejournal.com/144810.html

By all means. Enjoy whatever you enjoy and go on your Path in peace. I wrote for whoever reading this thread and not just for you. I tend to shy away from those who decide they and only they know the one and only truth/Tao. To each their own. Taoistic Idiot