ati

Very interesting post, Tom. I am sorry I have to leave you and this hospitable site. Many perosnal problems. I hope someday I will be back. See you all!... Sakis Totlis

All other translators I have examined translate "quiver" as "sack." Who is right? Since ALL other translators translate "sack" then "sack" it should be. Most of the times it is a matter of judgement. Personally I prefer the translations of Legge and Wilhelm. Apart from that, this is just the case I was talking about. In obscure cases like this we have the image(s) to help us better clarify the meaning, (carefully - not to overdo it). When translating and interpreting this particular line myself, I stopped and thought why there should be here "a tight up sack". And I thought that because the divination refers to line four, which is just the beginning of the second trigram (4,5,6), we have a premature state of things, and we can't understand what the situation really is, and so the sack is tight (and no one knows yet what the "sack" contains). We have a similar expression in Greece for someone who buys "a pig in the sack", meaning "not knowing what he buys". So, the divination "No harm -- no praise." is appropriate when you don't know yet how things are. So it really doesn't matter if it is a quiver or a sack, because the idea of a premature and unknown state of things is expressed both by a sack and a quiver. I admit however that your analysis supporting the quiver is very interesting. ati

I do admit, however, I had a little giggle to myself when I read this: "Ati, let's overcome verbalism by being concrete." Well, Freeform, it surely sounds funny, but I am sure that you know what Tom meant. (That's why you say it right out, eh? That's probably why you're "really enjoyng the book," too. Be well!...

Yes, Tom. It is very hard to stick to words ignoring the images, in order to have a precise and true understanding of what every hexagram or every lline is actually saying, especially because you read a very poetic ancient Chinese text, which has many traps for our understanding. The images of each hexagram, plus the position of each line, are of great help. You are able to cross check the meaning of both the text and the images and have a fuller understanding. It beats me why people ignore the imagery and try to fathom the mystery of the divinations just by the words. Anyway. I agree with most images you mention but I have a couple of questions. On further inspection I think it likely that the ridgepole is vertical No, I think that a ridge pole should be horizontal, as all ridgepoles normally are, as the parallel horizontal lines also denote. I can't see the reason why we may see the ridgepole as being vertical. I mean, why should we do that? .6 drowning man. The elder has entered the water of death. What makes you say that? I am sure that much of the meaning derives from the position of the lines. Sixth line, for instance, is the last line of the hexagram and denotes death, decline, end, finale. But this meaning must be in the text as well and also in the image the text implies and it is obvious as a crude image in the hexagram. Text, imagery and actual image should complement each other, to which we may also add the position of each line that provides each individual divination. So, does the text of this sixth line actually say that "the elder has entered the water of death?" ati

Ati, Thanks for the breakdown, its a wonderful book i have much to learn!! WYG Thank you WYG, especially for your characteristic Chinese courteous responses. The pleasure is mine, really. I am content that after years of work I have to offer something (anything of any value and of any use) to anybody. Think the blessing of it. I am a Greek, talking to a Chinaman about a Chinese work of wisdom (probably the oldest book on earth), and I am conversing in English, using an English web page. In other words, we the (unworthy) present day representatives of two wise ancient nations, talking in a present day medium made possible by the most vigorous modern nation. ;-) ati

Hi WYG, Glad to talk with someone with a Chinese name, after such midnight oil I burned over the Tao Te Ching and the I Ching. It is anyway an honor for me if anyone reads my book. Please take your time reading the book. "Properly" is the only way to read any book - isn't it? - "Fascinating" is the revelation of the truth. "Fascinating" for our functional "psyche" is the moment the "unknown" becomes "known". Truth is nutricious.... ati

Since it is obvious that I cannot have any unbiased (by my presence) opinion on my book, my present wish is to have some opinions biased by my presence. I am here to talk about it. ati (Sakis Totlis)

Sorry to intrude, but since I wish deeply to have some unbiased views on this particular book, I would like to repeat the question of WYG "Whats your views on it?" ati

Hello everybody You may all be well ati