Horus

Filling the LDT Surfing the LDT

Yes, I concur with that. I feel that all dantiens merge into one large center. Infact, when I spiritually projected inside and viewed my LDT - I was prompted to remote view a few other people's LDT. One person had a yin yang symbol with a chinese ancient character imposed (yin/yang grand ultimate)- and another 2 individuals (in their 80's) who are of a western magic system - had their LDT merged into one massive "dantien" which existed in the entire "space" where all three dantiens were - but much larger - like Dr Who's Tardis.

IMO, the starting point is conception. And when the soul incarnates, heaven and earth energies mix at LDT as we "enter" the body. Also IMO the LDT has its root at the first (lowest) chamber - which would be much deeper and correlative to the position of Svadisthana (2nd Chakra). But I feel that an individual only finds that out once they reach a certain threshold of LDT energy capacitation.

Hey, SoTG Just found this thread... My wife had the same thing recently. It was at the most recent new moon, and well there is a lot being cast into it for manifestation over the next few months. My wife was very upset with the energy, and was over heating. Instinctively I felt she needed to root. I asked her to go to the center of the Earth, deep, in to the core. My wife can do it instantly, very powerful, like most people would not achieve in hours of practice for years. Straight away she freezes up. I was half a metre from her and felt the Yin instantly - Massive Yin. "Oh, wow!" she said. "Theres a molten core and... "Theres a black pearl here, like the core is a black pearl" She then got a bit worried..her whole body froze up in anti-gravity like stillness. I could feel it, like I had just done a 1hr meditation instantly - I could feel her extreme Yin. She backed her way out of it because it started opening up her spiritual vision - something she still keeps a tight handle on - not ready to fully unleash it yet. She, and I both felt that it would be a similar situation to what you went through if she stayed there... IMO it is simply an extreme Yin healing, extreme rooting. The Earth Force was/is going wherever it needs to to balance you out. Were you using the Yin wire?

so simple, so profoundly powerful. Thank You Siddhartha! Oh, and you too JB

I think dantiens do "work like that" - they do have borders, albeit flexible ones. They act as containers in a sense. However semantically problematic it is. Developing, Filling, Expanding, Feeding, Growing, Nurturing, Increasing...I don't think the term we are comfortable with really matters beyond getting a personally workable comprehension. Ultimately we are talking about rooting Yang Qi in the LDT (a Yin Centre). Breath work is the most common method, but not the only one. You can just hold a mass of Yang Qi at the center and that will do it too (ie a Sun, another master's Dantien etc) The more intense and charged the mass of Yang Qi the greater the Developing, Filling, Expanding, Feeding, Growing, Nurturing, Increasing... Breath methods work by gathering Qi, Yang Qi, and "sinking" it to the LDT. But, why stop there - just put the Yang Qi in.

Yes, I have to agree with this. Even if you did 15 minutes a day of practicing the fundamentals of breath mechanics, attenuating the noise and turbulence of inhale/exhale transitions - you will rapidly increase your ability to quickly enter deep trance states - or achieve the ability to maintain deep stillness and enter alpha, theta, and delta states in a waking and even outward moving state. If you set two students on a split test - I'd bet you some cash that the one doing the fundamentals 15 minutes a day will advance faster and deeper that the one that did 1hr once a week of just sitting still and trying to go deep.

IME the deep state of trance, over time and practice starts to enter the waking state. In the beginning you may find that it requires the deep state, but in time the deep state will engulf your waking state and what once took hours is achievable in a single breath. a single word. Thus spoke the Creator...

I like this, but for disambiguation... I like BKA's light joke btw There imbeds the impression that upon exhale the dt empties and upon inhale it fills...JoeBlast might have a few comments upon that (probably already has down the thread?). While the energy potentials of the dt wax and wane - I don't think you can see that visually when seated internally looking right at the LDT itself. ie it is not literally a disk fills up and empties, like it's not a visual event to perceive in that way.. Not ime anyway... Maybe its more that upon inhale it waxes to high and upon exhale it wanes to low, but does not "empty". As development progresses there are higher levels of wax and wane occuring...no empty as such. I'm fascinated by dantiens. They are like dr who's Tardis imo. The circumference of the dantien can exceed the boundaries of the physical (just as size reference) and etheric body - and yet seems to appear "contained within" it. This is a big part of the confusion for many. The dantiens get bigger, but also denser, and change in colour and then also fuse with the other centers, and also solidify...

Hey!..I was listening... Maybe you can't hear us listening?

Great post! But man! What would you know?! You're not part of any lineage, probably did your own research over a life-time and just practiced..Pfff! It's not like you have a Cinnabar Field you can prove is it? lol Not like you can actually show it on camera or something like a pink polka dot body haha! Not like you can show stigmata from developed dantiens and cultivated Qi. One Lone Man cannot do these things alone right?! You need a lineage of old grey haired hermit farts to tell you how to cultivate, when to live, and when to die right?! How much does a dantien cost btw?

Anyone know which Eva Wong Text this comes from?

I agree, this is a great post. "Layman"? I'm not so sure "In one of Eva Wong's books on Taoist alchemy, "yellow sprouts" and "golden sparks flying from behind the navel" (I think they're the same thing) are said to be a sign that the lower dantian is filled/activated/working/however you want to say it" Thanks for that..another missing link for me In the experience that I've just posted about in this (thread) about spiritual projection into the abdomen. That is exactly what I saw. The image of it rummages around in my head for answers every second day. I saw golden (very bright white) sparks flying from behind the navel - actually they we're flying out from behind the golden disk (ming men?) and seemed to come through the disk or around it (slightly different dimensionally) and then careered throughout channels (triple burner/lower burner I believe). So, there is my lineage reference lol I had not started doing any Taoist Alchemy at that stage - and yet the sprouts were in there going crazy, and the LDT was a big golden glowing presence. Also, my attention upon it seemed to cause it to flare up and produce more... Since then I have had similar expereinces with the UDT and LDT (2 years into UT Fusions 1&2 - and within a few weeks of dropping the Fusions). So, I recently had a similar experience. I was fully projected within UDT and the space was empty blackness with a shimmering light on the bottom surface of UDT. When I questioned "what is the source of this flickering light?" - immediately, my center of awareness shifted down to the MDT - and before me was the source of the UDT (Shen) - there was a big fat white flame right in the center of the MDT cavity. It has taken a few sittings to ruminate on the meanings and locations, but I feel that this acknowledges the differing states of jing-qi-shen transformations. In the LDT the state of energy is more dense and the disk seems more "solid" also (the jing centre) and then rising to the MDT the energy is less dense, having "melted" and is in a "flame" state (the qi centre), and finally the UDT is the least dense and most Yang - a pure "light" state. I don't believe that these transitions are linear, but that viewing them as such is useful - and helps one break down and break out of the experience of said transitions - on their road to unification of all centers into light. So, for me these inner voyages have really helped humble me. They've helped me realise how much healing is to be done in order that the upper cavity is once again filled with Shen. I believe that there are many ways to do this. Personally, a multifaceted approach that weeds out all of the lesser approaches is my path. Imho I feel that a purely Virtue/De based approach without any form of sitting mediation can also get you there. In other words applying the highest virtue in every thought, word, and deed - living in real-time experience with life will fill the DT's and achieve both enlightenment and immortality. It's not my approach only (I apply that, but also meditate + other things)... But my wife does not meditate. She lives a waking state Darma of the highest order. I'm yet to voyage inside and take a peak at her centers - but I'll eat my hat if they are not bigger than mine. She was born knowing, seeing, and being able to perform any of the Shen based abilities spoken of in texts - more than 99.9999999% of people ever even aspire to, because they just don't have the level of evolution that simply puts you right there from the very beginning. It all comes down to Yuan Qi and De. Zero F$#ks are given at that level when it comes to escaping Hampster wheels. When you are the Hampster Wheel and all of the Hampsters you come and go as you please, and can see all of your past and future incarnations. And when you are there, effortless right action creates more virtue repeater. Texts, lineages, and community sharing are fantastic - but at the end of it - it comes down to you, your choices and your intention. Your lineage will not do it for you, and until you can do it yourself - they will feed on you. It's all you - so, what way do you want to fill your LDT? If you have enough conviction you can totally change the system anyway - this is illusion.

Mastery. Why is it that so many strive so hard to balance their five phases and yin and yang aspects within...they work their whole lifetime at it.....And yet so few expand that practice into their relationships with self, family, and others in the world at large? Without true Virtue all cultivation might as well be left to pissing up a wall imo. Well done Spotless...you strive toward your name - and so it is!

Thanks Spotless, what kind of meditation do you do?

Yes, I know what "whole" is to Taoists, and I'm also aware that even the celestial immortal still has practices. My point though, and the tone of the OP, was not Taoist specific. Namely that there are some born into the world, and many more to arrive, that are already immortal - and already have well developed Dantiens. Certainly it is rare, but there are those that are born already grounded in the highest of attainments. Examples? Well, I'll put myself forward as an example... I'm not calling myself "whole" right now...but I was when I was born. When I was born I was (just as many were) fully aware. I was aware before conception, I was aware at conception, in the womb, during birth. There is very little I was not aware of. I quizzed my mother about my birth and I knew that the nurse was intoxicated, knew what the doctor was like, what he looked like, his thoughts, intentions. I knew all of it, I could feel it, see, hear and just knew. I was plunged into a sea of collective consciousness, and was mitigating my families emotions, thoughts, words, deeds. I can travel back in time to all of those points and recall what was going on (and can correct my perspective upon it, more importantly). Most people that enter whole don't stay that way. We enter a sea of incorrect perception and meld with it, some arise from it, some cling to it for safety, some are destroyed. So, I consider myself in the "some arise from it" bunch A few years ago, having done zero neigong/neidan/pill cultivation etc I had internal spirit projection experience. I was doing some breathing exercises and incidentally sucked in a big gulp of qi into my UDT. It was extremely painful and took hours for me to gain control of the energy. Within a few hours of intense effort I was able to direct said energy with my intention. I was trying to descend the energy to the LDT, but instead it channeled into the 3rd eye and a clear crystal like astral tube extended out of my mid-brow. The tube extended into my abdomen, and my whole core-self was going with it. I projected my whole awareness into my abdomen, and landed right in-front of a glowing golden disk. I was in there, as awareness (no arms legs or tiny body - just my core-self awareness - which I consider different to inner vision where the center of awareness is still in Niwan. I had heard about and started researching on LDT cultivation Neigong/neidan etc - but had not started practicing. My LDT was a full golden glowing sun like disk. There was primordial vapour in there, dark matter, fires, yin/yang qi dancing, I could see internal channels with qi moving through them. My point here is that I had done no internal alchemy - and the pill was big, and powerful. The dantiens are our innate reservoirs of soul energy stepped down to usable forms for various bodies of various densities. Granted that they change as we cultivate, and that perhaps some people may have imperceptible dantiens prior to doing any cultivation on them. So, there are those that make a religion of what they have learned from those they hold above them. And there are those that shake off all limitation, and sometimes people make religions about what they think they have learned from those people. Either way, the whole process is about reversing the post-natal acquisitions. Simply, some people, being born whole have not acquired as much incorrect perception, have not disposed of their original state. What, you think one can become a master of all of this and not come back here whole from the start? Limit yourself you must? Liberate yourself you may!

Practice is only for those that are not yet whole... Some are born whole.

Plain old breath awareness and absolute stillness.

I've seen this light many years ago, after about 3 years of zazen meditation I would see it daily. It's back.. When I do embrace the tree stance and open my eyes there is a shimmering light in the circle made by my arms - like a portal of light undulating. I can see it now anytime I look down the end of my nose and become still...I just saw it taking a p.

From Kundalini Yoga By M. P. Pandit (p36): on google books http://books.google.com.au/books?id=bPrMlGQsPQ8C&pg=PA37&lpg=PA37&dq=atma+flame+anahata&source=bl&ots=qW0htYMi2Y&sig=WIdFn3jSEhF4pORl9MSvY_ed2W0&hl=en&sa=X&ei=wIb2U-jjCoHd8AWMwYGIBw&ved=0CDkQ6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q=atma%20flame%20anahata&f=false

Agreed. But I think at essence the OP is trying to formulate a means to transmute the nature of said responses (even if he thinks its about deleting it completely). When the nature of the consciousness in the sexual center is transmuted to its highest form we are no longer troubled by desire, and can ascend with tranquility upon the loftiness of jing>qi>shen transfromation (particularly with the lunar cycle).

"The Anāhata Chakra is our inner temple in which the divine Ātmā, “the flame of life”, resides." http://www.chakras.net/energy-centers/anahat I can't find any references to a flame at Ajna/UDT - though I have had it mentioned by a friend that practices Transcendental Meditation. I'm considering the possibility that the flame was actually at MDT/Anahata...but in just writing that I'm hearing "no, Ajna". It's just that I was below MDT and slowly ascended when the vision occurred. Well, either way - before enlightenment, chop wood carry water, after enlightenment, chop wood carry water....

Well, you can walk through it in real-time and let the ego burn..as you said "Let it come, let it go? Boy that's a tough one." Or you can work on the actual energy directly - actively transmuting it. Both methods go together. There are many ways, but Time Line Meditation (TLM) works and its "permanent" and laser-like in precision (so you would need to clear multiple energies within the bundle of said experience). gnōthi seauton!

From http://taoism.about.com/od/internalalchemy/a/three_treasures.htm "The third of the Three Treasures is Shen, which is our Spirit or Mind (in its largest sense). The home of Shen is the upper dantian, and it is associated with the Heart Organ System. Shen is the spiritual radiance that can be seen shining through a person’s eyes – the emanation of a universal loving-kindness, compassion, and enlightened power; of a heart brimming with wisdom, forgiveness and generosity. If Jing is the wax and wick of a candle, and Qi its flame, then Shen is the radiance given off by the flame – what allows it to actually be a source of light. And in the same way that the light from a candle depends upon the wax, wick and flame, so does healthy Shen depend upon the cultivation of Jing and Qi. It is only through the temple of a strong and balanced body that a radiant Spirit can shine."

So, up until yesterday morning - I had only (for about 10 years) been privy to the shimmering light mentioned in the OP. It has come and gone over the years... So, yesterday morning I achieved a new level of attainment regarding this light. Over the last 6 months I have been experiencing a gradual "loosening" of my "core-self", an easing of the rigid state of head based consciousness (ie that feeling of awareness as centered and emanating from the head). The feeling is one of finally becoming more mobile in Shen based "activity". With this, I have started seeing tree auras on overcast days, where previously it required full sun. I can see the cosmic particle force everywhere, even in a waking state - little "quarks" darting about, dancing - just like they are joyfully imbuing everything. This is a shining example of my previous comment on preferring to openly discuss and analyse such subtle experiences and phenomena - to then feel the weight/pressure of other peoples beliefs, thoughts, feelings (along with my own) and - then the phenomena disperses and I can no longer work with it/it's subtle sacredness ripples and it "hampers progress". I've always thrown caution to the wind in the face of this. My feeling from the start was that any downward pressure upon such phenomena should be embraced - take the yin with the yang as one whole (shun the illusion), feel the burn of the downward pressure, take responsibility for how that makes me feel, clear it, take responsibility for all of it - and keep the practice up regardless. And without fail there is an almost immediate slump in the practice - where the phenomena shys away from reach. This is as much a practice in non-attachment as anything else - non-attachemnt to progress, to power, to getting it right, to achievement. A refusal to not discuss, not bring into the open - and a blatant disregard for any nuance of "but if you discuss and analyse this it will slip away" etc. HAHA! Go, then slip and slide away...for I am you, you'll be back. So, that shimmering light has always fascinated me. I had to work on that. So, I did some clearing on the desire to know. I cleared my desire to know the source of said light, and I cleared my emotions around not knowing and not being able to see it, to know it. Let go. Additional to this I have overhauled my practices. I've always been one to yield, and circumstances were asking for it. I've dropped the Fusion & K&L practices - and reverted to fundamentals. JoeBlast is a fountain to be sipped when it comes to breath fundamentals, if y'all didn't already know this... So, I've delved into JB's 3 Dantiens MCO (at the theory level) - which for practice IMO requires a fundamental operative connection with the waxing and waning energy potentials of the dantuens. Once I got my head around that concept, I realised I had to go deeper to achieve said operative connection with the dantiens before trying to master the 3DT MCO. So, how to do that? Sink deeper into breathing fundamentals, longevity breathing threshold - anapanasati. This course of thinking and practice is awakening me to much past life realisation, and providing the requisite rooting that was the basis of the shift away from the Fusions and K&L. So, yesterday morning I was nasal breathing, eyes down the nose periphera just lapping upon qihai - working on smoothing out the turbulences between in/exhales - calming the breath, calming the mind... Then I reversed my vision, turning the light around, back up through the nasal path of vision, and directed vision Yi down the taiji pole in an attempt to view LDT with inner vision. I have been able to see the glowing golden LDT disk with inner vision vaguely before (and have spiritually projected within to see it - which was a very different thing - full vision) [i'm separating "inner vision" as another phenomena, compared with spiritual projection here - spiritual projection sees the eternal soul or core-self detach from the seat of the soul at ajna/pineal/UDT - where as inner vision maintains the seat, not leaving it, to cast vision within (and for me inner vision has only been vague glow before yesterday] So, my gaze dropped toward LDT and there was a vague glow (not as strong as I've had) and I intuited that Yi has dropped in there and it should stay at UDT rather than dropping down. So, I intend Yi to float back up the taiji pole whilst maintaining the downward gaze toward LDT. Floating up ever so slowly, and boom - I shenned out - experience blacked out for a moment, but it all went black rather than awareness of it deminishing (so technically a phasing rather than a shen out, which would be losing awareness, but maybe that's another degree of shenning out - I'm not an expert, I just have an innate ability with this stuff). So, a moment of blackness, and then I find myself in full awareness within UDT. My eyes were closed through all of this process, and I could not see the room "outside" me, I just had full crystal clear vision centered within UDT. It is still a very strage sensation to have a clear vision like that, and to take note that I don't have arms and legs, and don't have a physicality, just awareness, thoughts, presence, ability to look around etc - nice but odd. So, I knew I was in UDT as I could sense the body, just that my centered awareness has entered a different mode of perception. So, I'm in UDT - and immediately I see the same shimmering light of the OP. Ha! Hello there you! lol Ha! I told you you'd be back..and as expected you are brighter than ever, and I'm as close to you as I guess I could be? (my thoughts). So, I'm in UDT - at the back of the cavity looking forward - and I'm watching this shimmering light - brighter and now (being an ex advertising photographer ) the edges of the shimmering light are a higher contrast, not so soft, like a direct light source is issuing this light - not a mirage like amanation. And the moment I observed that - WFT! My monkey mind jumped in - huh? And with that I realised that my gaze was still oriented downward - I was still maintaining the intention to perceive LDT - and realised that what I was observing was flickering white light lapping on the bottom of the UDT cavity. So, "what's the source of this shimmering white light" was the next thought...and then Boom! I full crystal clear view [as clear as my inner spiritual projection experience] emerged a big fat white flame flickering right in the center of the UDT cavity. The beautiful radiant flame was lapping white shimmering silvery light upon the bottom "surface" of the UDT cavity. I felt this to be my soul, and yet considering it later - it makes me feel like jing > qi > and shen are all my soul - just at transforming levels of density to emanate the bodies into "actuality". My LDT was more "solid", round and golden, and the UDT was less dense more akin to spirit - a flame. I was expecting UDT to be just as "solid" like as LDT - but was mistaken. We are just like a candle. Densest most physical nurturing matter at the bottom (jing), the wax melts to a non-physical state of fire (Shen) at the top. Needless to say I'm keen to take a peak at MDT now Shimmering half solid half fire?...