Horus

So, if you notice that someone never seems to pay for their lunch....

Sorry typo - "You may not have the option to come back again and remain Immortal (unless you're a celestial immortal)" meaning that if you chose to go and cross over once immortal you couldn't revert to immortality again - unless you're a celestial immortal (giving you the option to come and go in and out of "the light".

Perhaps SonOfTheGods will share all of his Mo Pai levels so we can confirm that they were not a lie? (insert the sound of crickets chirping)

Thanks again. I agree with this. With the exception that a celestial immortal would remember all of their earthly experience, and all of their other incarnations (allowing that there would also be levels of celestial immortality).

Judge not that enemies are any less beneficial than lovers. They serve merely to bring the lessons required. But, I'm not talking about the physical relationship going on forever. None the less, it could be said that spirit are "together" in the light - and that beings meet each other to cross over and they do "stay" "together" as such in the light (immortal or not).

if it wasn't important to me I would not ask it.

I didn't say return to a body Chi Dragon. I said return into the light - ie cross over.

Do you mean "Can anyone define it more tangibly in terms of degrees or milestones?" is a question of semantics and theory? Maybe to mortals it is...but there is the way of it, none the less.

Ok, then let me rephrase too: Let's remove the spouse part. If you are a free soul, it would follow that you still have the option to go into the light again - celestial or spiritual immortal would still have that option -right? You may not have the option to come back again and remain mortal (unless you're a celestial immortal) - but you could still "forego" your immortality and cross over into the light (hamster wheel or not)?

ok, nice point. The same is true with physical incarnation, so "as above, so below". (ie highly evolved souls incarnate with greater degrees of what others seek to cultivate.)

it's a fine line though isn't it? Avoiding that light is also what souls do when they fear judgement - not realising it is only themselves their to judge them - and that the only judgement is "did you love enough?".

This is lovely. Simplicity. But, it could be said that the same is said for "spirituality" as opposed to "Celestial Immortality"... Can anyone define it more tangibly in terms of degrees or milestones? (hope that makes sense outside my head)

Thanks BaguaKicksAss. I appreciate your willingness to involve such heartfelt content - blessing on you both. This would be the normal process that souls transit through as part of their integration into the light. The compassion of the universe sees to it that we have what we need. Her love for you brings surged up my spine and tears in my eyes. infinite love for you she has..

Ok, nice thanks. So, this begs the question - is it defined as to what is required to achieve Celestial Immortality?

yes, hence the disclaimer to not get caught in that. I read a paper by a Jesuit trained Quantum Physicist that claimed that the ability to condense was the only requirement for immortality - so I'm open to both sides of the story, but also agree with SonOfTheGods quote that there are different levels of immortality.

Thanks Chi Dragon, but no that is not what I meant. Let's reframe the scenario: Let's say I practiced Taoist Nei Gong. I achieved immortality (spiritual). Upon physical death I either wasn't visited by the light to take me/cross over / or The light came and I didn't need to cross over (and didn't need to wander the earth feeding to stay here - ie not a lost soul). I'm spiritually immortal. So, depending on my level of immortality - for the rest of my spouses tenure I would do what ever (leave it at that it's not my point). When my spouse "dies" the light comes for her and she crosses with family into the light. As an immortal - do I still have that option to cross over with her? That's all I'm asking (at this stage).

OK, fair clarification. Lets say spiritual immortality. My Question then is about Taoist Immortality achieved via some form of nei gong. Whether that be creating the immortal embryo, or via other methods like fusion of yin/yang in the lower dantien. (Let's not get lost in the method semantics though - or what method works or not).

So it is, Brian. We are one. But, what a divine dance it is to re-remember that.

There is just a semantic issue with any difference between intent and intention - intent merely having further implication of clear reasoning or great deliberateness. To that I say - a soul of the highest level of evolution can do the same with both. A mere nuance of intention or intent will achieve what they seek. To believe other wise is to believe that source cannot understand one or the other. However, I would suggest that intent is a clearer way of putting it - and certainly accept that even the most evolved soul would create a stronger "link-up" with the divine should they hone such a process. As for ""those of the highest level" is a hollow wish"... This doesn't really mean much... There are those souls incarnate among us that herald to a much higher spiritual evolution than others - this is the way of it. Wishes hollow or not have little to do with that. Intention and intent over lifetimes is one way to ascend to such levels, yet there are souls that started that way from the very beginning. These souls, incarnating into this time/space frame are whole - and need do no energetic work to "come into alignment with the Light". They are the light and so it is. And with: "Second is the phrase "to your feet" -- to me this implies subjugation, that you are commanding Source to do your bidding when, in fact, just the opposite it true." There is a separation in this statement. You cannot command Source to bid for you - you are Source. In that moment both you and source subjugate together as one. If you make it that Source (God, the Divine - whatever you term it) is outside you - you've left yourself behind. You are all of it experiencing yourself through duality. With: "I think Horus was suggesting, however, that the dedicated practitioner of a high-level spiritual "kung fu" develops the ability to use intent to leverage the Light to bend manifest reality, and this I agree with whole-heartedly." I agree with this also - but it was not my point. My point is that some souls never chose to explore the darker side of duality - they maintained the light in every choice. These souls can with a mere intent/intention call upon source to come and be right at their feet. Infact, they often need only feel lost and separated and source will come. And by that I mean the whole fanfare descends - first the lowest levels of heavenly being come, then the next eschalon, then the next highest eschelons, until finally the God Head itself (at least its visual energetic representation ie the highest manifestation that would be considered God/Source - as in actuality the true source state is infinite formlessness - but there is an Image of God/Source that is "provided" at times). And yes, at your feet. When one is so divine there is no judgement or subjugation, and indeed no separation. So, it is only during the transition from the great unwashed to the complete ascension that we feel there is something lowly about having someone at our feet. Though, I understand fully how that could sound. I have actually seen this through another's eyes. Divine will and the personal will fuse as one. There is only 1 bidding as there is only 1. Don't mistake Righteousness for Arrogance - it is easy to do. My point is to dispel the requirement for ceremony - at the highest level you are Source. However, ceremony is a valid tool for connecting with said divinity without question.

That will depend upon your level of spiritual evolution. For those of the highest level of evolution, only the intention is required to bring source itself to your feet.

It depends on the spirit - just like it does here with people...

I'm actually reading this right now... Jerry A. Johnson - CMQT (Vol2) - Energetic Alchemy, Dao Yin Therapy and Qi Deviations Has a bit on mudras/hand seals....... see below HAND SEALS (MUDRAS) .............................................................................................................. 245 COMBINING HAND SEALS AND INCANTATIONS ............................................................................. 246 DOUBLE HAND SEALS ................................................................................................................. 246 EIGHT TRIGRAM DOUBLE-HAND SEALS USED FOR YI-JING DIVINATION ......................................... 248 DAOIST EIGHT TRIGRAM DOUBLE-HANDED SEALS FOR GATHERING POWER .................................. 249 BUDDHIST DOUBLE HANDED SEALS ............................................................................................. 252 SINGLE HAND SEALS .................................................................................................................. 253 SINGLE-HANDED HAND SEALS: DAOIST ....................................................................................... 253 BAGUA SINGLE HANDED HAND SEALS ........................................................................................ 255

Yep, the first time I ever did it I summoned Miyamoto Mushashi. I didn't think I could actually do it (no ceremony - just intention), so I boldly just pulled him up from the "underworld". I was meditating by the bay and he rose up like a massive island out of the water. He was really pissed at me and went back down again. Needless to say I was much more considerate after that one...

What is the name of that text Gooch - do you have a link?

giddyup! I read and write (write out my paper version from electronic/pdf's) taoist texts while the phone is ringing I love working from home! Semi naked wife walking around, a kiss and a cuddle for every deal processed!!