DreamBliss

If I act with no desire, what reason have I to act at all? In other words... How can I go on a date if I have no desire to date? What brought me to date in the first place? If I have no desire to date, why would I date? Desire is the fuel of biological imperative that runs the engine of life.

To have life is to desire, To have no desires is to have no life, "When there is no desire, all things are at peace." Because all things are dead! A lion can have no desire to hunt for food, Just laying there, stretched out in the sun, Until it starves to death...

That's just... Wrong...

I will be following this advice. I had already made that intention. I will be authentic, honest and in-your-face. What kind of results that will net me are anyone's guess.

If you feel compelled to say something, say it. If not, don't. If you can make a practice of saying whatever you have to say lovingly, do so. If not, just be authentic and honest.

Thank you, I needed that. A dark cloud was forming that your words dispelled. BTW I dig alien chicks. As long as they are physically compatible, I'm all for it!

I have to admire your fortitude... Is that the right word? I don't know what word I want... That said, I figuratively and literally would rather die than be single the rest of my life. If I ever knew for a certainty, or even a likelihood, that I would never be with anyone, or that it was bad for me, I would terminate my physical existence immediately. I will either share my life with someone or I will stop living. No exceptions.

I know all I need to know about dating. First and foremost, never , ever go in for the kiss!

I appreciate your feedback, but what else can I do? Waiting around will accomplish nothing, I know because I have done this for over half my life. 40 is coming like a freight train! There is no place for me to go to meet women in my area. No way to get there either as I live 2.5 miles from town. Obviously bar hopping won't work from a spiritual standpoint either, even if I had a bar to hop to and a better way to get there than hopping There are no eligible females or socially acceptable females to my age range to approach in my parent's church, and even if there was the last thing I need is another Christian in my life. So as far as I can see, from my limited perspective, is that the action part (which we all have to take for any prayer) is to sign up at an online dating site. Hope for an actual physical meeting of someone, which is why I am sticking with my area. Unless someone has a better suggestion? Because sitting around praying for a mate won't bring one to my door. This isn't Mary Poppins where prayed for people float down from the sky. All siting and waiting does is create more sitting and waiting. There has to be a stepping out in faith action of some sort on my part, So what else can I do?

"There is no point in living if you don't enjoy life." - One of my earliest sayings Setting a goal is to become attached to some desired outcome, and therefore is not ideal. Fleeing from anything is aversion and is also, therefore, not ideal. I have done both, and I still don't know what the hell to do with my life. I watched my dad work at Safeway for 30+ years and retire. I saw first-hand what this got him, and the kind of mindset this engendered in him, and I want nothing to do with it. Then I went through a period where I worked on my mindset with the goal of attaining financial success. Yet I find myself still sitting here, living in my grandmother's house, so this approach too has failed. At this moment, I am learning to co-exist with the question of my existence. While the question remains unanswered, I practice being present-minded in each moment, and living each moment to its fullest. I will do the things that speak to me to do, and practice being present-minded in the doing. I will not worry about the past or obsess over the future, as neither exists right here, right now, in this moment. I will have faith and trust that somehow, in some way, I will find the work that is enjoyable and meaningful for me to do, that will allow me to support myself and hopefully, one day, a family. Life is a practice.

This is a bit of a strange question for these forums, but I don't really have anywhere else to go. I have read, "The Magical Approach" and found much there that rings true to my experience, and feels right. But there is a problem. The book is supposed to be about this Magical Approach, yet, to my memory, there are no paragraphs or pages where the entire thing is detailed, right there for you to read. Instead peices of this have been scattered throughout the text. I am assuming that the same thing applies to these frameworks 1-3 or whatever they are. My local library has none of that, just "The Magical Approach" and the deleted material book 6. Anyhow I want just the Magical Approach and the Frameworks. Just the details of these, whether it be a page or several pages. Something I can print out, tape on my wall, fold up, refer back to. Instead of digging through all the books. It would be terrible to have to lug around half a dozen or more books when a few pages would detail the information. I am getting nowhere on the internet Googling around. Do you know where this material is available online, exactly as delivered through Jane Roberts/Rupert? I wouldn't want someone's edited summary or any garbage like that. If you know where I could get this, or if you have the books and could write this out or something, word-for-word, could you post a link or consider writing these processes out and making them available? Just the processes of the Magical Approach and these Frameworks. I know it would be a lot of work, but I for one would appreciate it. Thank you.

OK, thank you for the advice. Now I just need to summon up the ambition and energy...

I exist to define for myself why I exist.

I just wrote this post on meditation: http://adifferentpath.blog.com/2014/08/31/meditation/ I do not normally "toot my own horn" outside of sharing such things on Facebook and Twitter. But I think I have stumbled onto something worth sharing here. These words may be of some help or use to someone. Feel free to discuss this post in this thread. all feedback is welcome.

Everyone, thank you for your feedback! This is a learning process for me. I will need to take more time to read through this again to make sure I "get" what you are all saying. Spotless thank you for this additional perspective. I am having trouble absorbing it right now but I will return to what you have written. I would like a link to this thread you advised I read if you don't mind providing it. Speaking generally then, is it the consensus of everyone who has posted here that what I have stated is accurate? Or is there anything I should add, perhaps insert into the text somewhere with the user name of whoever said it? Did I miss anything? Please understand I have no guru or teacher other than what you read about in spiritual texts that you already have inside. Everything I have written was experiential, from I guess a beginner's perspective, although maybe I am not a beginner, I would have to leave that up to someone else to determine. Inexperienced would be a better word. In any case my purpose was to provide information that I had not yet encountered, which I thought was valuable enough to share. As Ram Dass says, it may be someone's "game" to struggle with meditation for years, but if I can do anything to help others not go through what I went through, if I can help in any way, I will. But ultimately, everyone has their own path up the mountain. Everyone has to make their own choices and decisions. Everyone grows their own way. The best a teacher can do, I think, is put the information out there and trust that it will get to those who need or want it. Or maybe we are just setting the foundation for the development of the human race as a whole. Well whatever the case may be, I will gladly set the stones of my experience in place if they will be of any benefit to anyone.

So far, in my spiritual journey, I have been exposed to two views about God. As a Christian God is seen as the bearded man in the sky somewhere. God is seperate. God is loving, but can be angry or jealous. God judges, God is affected by the things we do, think or say. God hates sin. God is outside of me, seperate from me. God has some sort of plan for His creation. This idea of God does not evolve. Now, as whatever this is, the Source is seen as both outside of and one with all of creation. The Source is seen as an energy, The Source has no ego. The Source remians unaffected by what I do, say or think. The Source sees the Truth of who I am. The Source has no plans and does not judge. The Source just is. The Source may be loving in essence, but there is uncertainty here, because if love exists then so does the possibility of its opposite. This idea of God, as Source, is still evolving. But this brings up two nearly identical questions. If the Christian idea of God is true, and Heaven is perfect, where did the sin of jealousy come from, that Lucifer and 1/3 of the angels woudl fall? There can be no imperfection in perfection. If God is perfect, if Heaven, His home is perfect, then sin can not exist there. It could no more grow there then a redwood seed could sprout and grow on the moon. If, on the other hand, God is not seperate, if the Source is one with all of creation, how did parts of itself decide that they wanted to be seperate, to become you and I, the things in creation, and experience things from that persepctive? If the Source is in some unchanging state, free of any ego, and therefrore desireless, how did parts of itself desire to experience seperation? It would be the same as if my arm suddendly desired to experience life seperate from my body, and dropped off. This is telling me there is something wrong with both perspectives of God. There are holes in each definition where there should be no holes. What do you think? What is your explanation?

I find it discouraging the things we do in the name of God. I find it even more discouraging the things people of God, whatever their religion, do to others. People should not be punished for their sexual attractions or preferances. But I can't help but feel if our society and its religions were truly healthy, for lack of a better word, there would be no molestation, rape, or same sex relationships. I think these are all products of mankind at this point in their development/evolution. Everything we call a crime, and everything we fight to have the right to do, from abortion to rasing kids in an unbalanced, same sex parental relationship - it is all a byproduct of our society, in my opinion. I feel, I think, that if mankind developed and evolved spiritually all this stuff would just disappear. These diseases, emotional, mental and physical, that we have been passing down to our childen for the last few thosuand years will die out. In that world I see mankind living hamroniously with themselves, each other, their planet, and their collective, universal idea of whatever force created/developed/evolved them. However mankind's views develop as the race grows spiritually. I listen to Alan Watts and I begin to see things a little more clearly. The "porcelin" VS "automatic" ideas of the universe, ingrained in our speech patterms for as long as man has had speech. I get discouraged again, because the "New Thought" teachers I love, like Wayne Dyer, are obviously working from the flawed automatic model. The universe as some sort of machine. If Christians and other O.R. don't have it right, and the "New Thought" people don't have it right, how in the hell do I figure out how to interact and work with the energy of creation to create the life I want for myself and manifest the things I want for myself, and is this even something I can do? If I can't in any way cause the life I want to happen and bring the things I want into that life, then what the fuck is the point in living? That means my life is stuck on some pre-programmed course that can not be affected by me in any way. At least I had hope with the "New Thought" teachings like E-Squared! God didn't mess up. Man did. Man's idea of God has been and probably is, for the most part, flawed. Maybe some understand the Truth. I am not, and won't claim to be, one of them. Maybe there is no God, or Source, as I refer to God now. Maybe there is no originating energy. Or maybe there is no creator, but there is still an energy that connects all of us and makes us one. I don't know, and I wish I understood, had an experience of, the Truth. If life is a play I fogot my lines and I hope someone off-stage reads them to me. If life is a dance I came in with two left feet. In either case, someone please teach me how to act or dance so I can stop stumbling around over here! This sucks! Now I am even more depressed than I was...

rene I am curious, what are your "after death" thoughts? I re-read what you said in this thread but either I am missing it or it's not here. But I would love to get your perspective on this. Also thank you for your last post. I think I agree with your point of view here. I just wish I could get a better handle on this. But maybe what I said in another thread is right. Maybe ____ is unknowable and unthinkable. Maybe feelings/intuition, feeling your way through, is the way to come to a better understanding here.

I am learning to be with the place where I don't know. To be OK with that. This need to know comes from the intellect. But as many here and in the books I have read have said, you can not think your way to enlightenment. You can't even think your way to an experience of God. All subjects spiritual are unthinkable and unknowable. We only think we know them To explore the spiritual, move away from the intellect, and towards intuition. Feel your way forwards spiritually. Allow yourself tyo be guided, to do the things that don't make any sense on an intellectual level. I think perhaps this is the way to proceeed, assuming anyone is going anywhere.

I am sorry to hear that happened to you. I love how unchristian Christians can tend to be. How they can read a passage such as "Turn the other cheek..." or "Love one another..." then do something like that. It makes me sad for them, that they are so immature and insecure in their faith. They haven't figured out yet that God is perfectly capable of defending Himself and has no need of any human defense or intervention. Also they have not yet learned that of something is True, nothing anyone does, says or thinks will change it. So if their beliefs are True, if the Bible is Truth, then it will live on, eternally and infinitely, no matter what. If it is not True then it will fade away. Nothing that is not True stands for long. I agree that orgainized religion is mind control. And if a forums banned me for saying that, then I would be glad, because that would not be a healthy forums for me to be visiting. I think an organized religion such as Christanity is a basic, "baby food" sort of spirituality, perfect for those who are not ready for real "meat and potatoe" spiritaulity. I think O.R. speaks best to those who are very narrow or simple minded. If any of what I have said here hurts or sparks offense I do apologize. But I am only sharing my opinion, and as I was a Christian for 20 years, I think I earned that right. In my experience O.R. works well for those who are unable or unwilling to think for themselves. My view of the originator, previously God, now Source, is that this is a sort of sentient energy that is one with all of creation, connecting all of us. But, as I said, I see the hole in this viewpoint. So my idea of Source may be changing again soon. I do think that everything started somehow, and I doubt the big bang theory is the answer. I am leaning towards an initial creation, from which everything evolved. But I may be leaving this viewpoint behind. Unlike when I was a Christian, my beliefs about Source are free to change. I can release them as needed. My spiritual pratice is not a part of my identity. As a Christian my religion was a part of my identity. I think this is why Christians, and followers of other O.R., attack any who challenge their beliefs. Because any attack on their religion is also an attack on their identity. Millions have died in human history because of this stupdity, because of this thing called ego. Millions more may die before we all learn, as a race, how to move past the ego and live harmoniously with each other and our planet. Before we learn how to believe whatever we believe, and hold those beliefs loosely, not making them a part of our identity. I guess when I started this thread I was hoping for some understanding. If we are one with the Source, yet we created this illusion of seperation, how does that work? Why would Source need or want to see itself from any other perspective? How could parts of the Source create this illusion? Because as I said, if the Source is desireless, then there should have been nothing that would drive the creation of this illusion of seperation. And the idea that on dying, the ultimate goal is to merge back into the Source, sounds about as fun to me as the idea of sticking around Heaven for eternity. The astral planes are reportadly vast. I would like to go exploring once I am free of my physical body. That alone might take me many thousands of years. I have no more interest in going to Heaven than I do to end up in Hell, and no more interest in either of those than merging into the Source, no matter how wonderous the experience may be. I want to be free to explore. I want to experience the freedom there I have, as yet, been unable to experience here in physical reality. I just don't want to adopt another Holy (pun intended) belief system, and this Advaitist's "We are all one with everything..." non-belief belief system seems to be as flawed as the Christian's. It was part of my definition of the Source, and it fits in some ways, such as everything's interconnectedness, but in other ways things don't seem right. Maybe my understanding is wrong. Just looking for clarity here.

I don't know that I have any answer for you. But it is my understanding that in Buddhism, suffering comes from seeking, from attachment to something or aversion from something, My understanding may be wrong, but if not, perhaps you need to redfine what causes suffering. I would say suffering comes not from seeking, but a failure to realize you are already perfect, and you already have everything you need. You only think you need or want these things. You only think you need to give up. These feelings are all coming from thoughts. They are all illusion or maya. They are not the Truth. You are one with the Source, so you are one with all. You can never gibe up or loose anything. You are already one with whatever it is you need or want. Understand that your happiness is not derived from having, or sadness derived from giving up. Who you really are, inside, that part of you that lives on, remains unaffected.

OK to start there are some things you need to be aware of... I want to keep this "open ended", and I want to avoid giving power to something by saying it exists. Also I do not believe in destiny, fate, karma or sin. I think there may be a purpose to one's life, that maybe that came into life with the purpose, and that there may be a dream someone has about something they want to do that ties in with that purpose. Essentially I think there is a sort of True Path or Best Path or The Most Correct Path or something like that, and we need to be able to release and let go of anything that would interfere with our walking that path. One's purpose and possible one's dream is found in walking that path as freely and unobstructively as possible. One's truest happiness and joy comes from walking that path. You do not need to believe these things as I do to help me. Only to understand the concept I am trying to express here. So these are some statements: My desire... To do the things... I am interested in doing... Is protected... As long as it's compatible... With my path (pause.) My desire... To do the things... I am interested in doing... Is strong... As long as it fits... With my path (pause.) My desire... To do the things... I am interested in doing... Is retained... As long as it fits... With my path (pause.) I have the desire... To do the things... I am interested in doing... Until I need... To let it go (pause.) Unless I need... To let it go... I keep the desire... To do the things... I am interested in doing (pause.) Unless I should let it go... I retain the desire... To to the things... I am interested in doing (pause.) If it fits... With my path... I have a strong desire... To do the things... I am interetsed in doing (pause.) If it fits... With my path... My desire... To do the things... I am interested in doing... Is protected (pause.) If it fits... With my path... My desire... To do the things... I am interested in doing... Is retained (pause.) I hope you can see what I am trying to do here. This is for a second version of my latest self-hypnosis script entitled, "DRIVE." I have the sense of a possible agency, energy or force that, not being able to keep me from doing the things I am interested in doing, because of the new programming, is now attacking the desires itself. Without assuming such an agency, energy or force exists, and while using the admit, allow and accept process, I want to stop any such possible attacks. I know the script works, that the new programming does work. I started up modeling and exercising again, among other things. I wanted to do these things I am interested in doing again. But today it felt like desire was waning. The conscious mind and the ego are amazing constructs. Trying to work against these mechanisms, to interfere with their interference, is not an easy task. I just want to ensure that they didn't find another way to stop me here. Just want to make a simple statement along the lines of the ones I have posted here. One sentence, as clear and open-ended as possible. Any ideas or suggestions? Please post.

Surprisingly I have not, yet, done a script for material gain. I have been focused on correcting about 20+ years of American Society Christian Religion programming. I have written scripts for writing, since I have a natural affinity here but also some sort of resistance to it, dreaming, specifically lucid dreaming, and OBE, what I call Out of Body Explorations. Of course I have also done this script for DRIVE. I have been a Neutral too damn long. Time to put myself in DRIVE. Any programming done in self-hypnosis can be undone in self-hypnosis. There is nothing to fear in taking control of the programming you recieve. In fact, in modern society, it may take people repragmming themselves to allow them to pull away from the pack and change the ego-driven materialsitic focus most people here in America seem to posess. I am going over my DRIVE script statements to see if anything is ego or seeker driven. Clues should be an inflexability. Either am attachment to something or an aversion to something. If there is flexibility the ego/seeker should not be in control. You may critique my latest collection of statements here: I am willing... To do what it takes... To succeed... At what I am interested in doing (pause.) I admit... Allow... And accept... Any beliefs... About what I am interested in doing (pause.) I admit... Allow... And accept... Any challenges... In what I am interested in doing (pause.) I admit... Allow... And accept... Any resistance... To what I am interested in doing (pause.) It is my natural state... To succeed... At what I am interested in doing (pause.) I am releasing any beliefs... About what I am interested in doing (pause.) I feel energized and ready... To do what I am interested in doing (pause.) It is my natural tendency... To do what I am interested in doing (pause.) It is my natural tendency... To complete... Anything I start (pause.) I am having fun... Doing what I am interested in doing (pause.) I am having fun... Working through any challenges (pause.) I am celebrating my success (pause.) I apologize for any sharp edges in my previous posts.

OK, so removing all the esoteric nonsense, what do I do? By that I mean how to I deal with this interference in those things I am interested in doing?

I feel as if I am not being properly understood. To my knowledge it is not desire, but the seeking towards a desire, that brings about suffering. It is trhe attachment or aversion. I am not sure where desire is coming into this. But what I am doing here is preserving my interests, as long as I have them in the natural flow of my life. No attacthment, no aversion. I will let them go if, in the natural flow of my life, I outgrow them or move on. I am trying to remove any interference that causes this freezing. If there is something in me that is sabotaging my pursuit of these things that curfrently interest me, something most likely in the ego, this is my approach to dealing with it. If there is an interference I am sure it is in the ego. Maybe something in me wants me to fail. Maybe something in me is comfortable with my sitting around, accomplishing nothing. Maybe something in me is afraid of success. The ego, in these instances, becomes a millstone around my neck. I want to remove this influence from me. I do that not by getting stronger, so I can drag around the millstone easier - that just makes the millstone more real. Also not cutting it from around my neck, that again makes it real. It has to have some sort of reality to be able to be cut. Better to program myself that the millstone isn't even there. That removes its power from me, without resistance, fighting, aversion or attachment. In short, my suspcision, and that is all it is - a suspicion - is that something in me is sabotoging my efforts to develop, grow and learn in these subjects that have been of interest to me for many years. These subjects hold this interest because they are there, in the natural flow of my life and have been there, for most of it. If reincarnation is real, it is likely that any of these subjects, or all of them, are what I came here to master in this life. Do you understand now? I am removing the power, through these statements and the use of the self-hypnosis script, from any sabotoging agency or energy, without giving it power. So one final time... Are the latest of my two statements the best for this purpose, and if not, how would you word them? Please post your wording of them, it its entirety, and explain why you have worded it so. Thank you. BTW... Suffering is also found in not desiring. Let's say you live in a gutter somewhere, and winter is coming. Not desiring shelter and warmth will not protect you from the elements. You will freeze to death. Not desiring = ignorance. It does no good, whatsoever, to be a martyr, and those who advise martyrdom have probably never been a martyr. Desire will do one useful thing. It will cause you to get up, off your ass, and seek warmth and shelter. You increase you chances of surviving. If you die, at least you respected your physical life enough to try to find a way to survive. It is a dishonor to the gift of your physical life to simply lay back, desireless, and let death come. It is senseless, stupid and unintelligent to claim non-desire as some badge of honor in negative circumstances where suffering is already happening, and especially in the face of death. If that is you, you better hope reincarnation is real, so you can get it the fuck right in your next life. "If the spark does not desire the tinder there is no flame." - DreamBliss "To seek an end to suffering is to desire non-suffering." - DreamBliss