ShenLung

Interesting, the base-line for normal is still amongst the population that obtain their spiritual beliefs from the context of religeon, so those ideas can be absolutely irrational, but they are considered normal. Do Shaman usually come from ethnic groups that carry genes predisposing them to diabetes? Cross-cultural ethnobotany is growing as a field of study, but for the great length of anthropological study, the learned scholars studied from outside of the circle as an observer, not from inside as student or practicioner.

That was a bit harsh - sounding on my part, GmP, and being the oddball that I am, I shouldn't be so critical, either. There are some in that camp that make my bs (bad stuff) detector go off; I attempted to refer to those, but cast too wide a net. Will you forgive me?

Post is incredibly slow this time of year, probably from all of the re-gifted year old fruitcakes making the rounds. It seems that being alive at all also goes hand in hand with being on the menu for someone. The chickens eat the worms, we eat the chickens, and it's a fair wager the worms will have their day, as well.

I think, therefore I am delusional Two minds, then; one that is responsible for manipulation of the reality program, and the other that holds a temporal point of view, gathering it's data from the bodily senses? As a fifth dimensional agent, can the calculating mind come and go from the present moment perception to do it's work freely? Are we all experiencing the same universe, or is something else happening? Could it be that, when two persons are regarding a singular object, it can be the same object, who's constituent particles take turns in being inside one universe, and then the other; the seperate existances sharing the same particles, but not at precisely the same infinitely miniscule moment in 'time'?

People who go about 24/7 claiming to be channeling the spirit of some long - dead person are ... just creepy. Alien channelers, too. The film could have been better without that chick. At least one of the doctors interviewed also states that he cannot support any claims that conciousness has anything to do with manipulating anything on the quantum level, although the film attempts to make that case. I could say that my chair has an experience when I sit in it. Spirit, perhaps, but not an ego conciousness. At some point, I have to say "I don't know", and be ok with that answer, for now.

We see this a lot, don't we? When an unsatisfied emotional need becomes subliminated into a craving for food.

There is a film that can help one get a toe-hold onto the quantum theory, fairly entertaining, and thought provoking as well. A good use of two hours time, if one has the time for it. Making proper use of the theory would take a person with more intelligence than I, perhaps, but it is a good place to start, in any case. Language that one need not be a genius to comprehend: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ioONhpIJ-NY I've got a copy of this on disc, just in case it becomes unavailable of youtube. Before anyone gets the idea that this explains everything and runs off to join or start a new cult, consider the sceptical observations: http://skeptico.blogs.com/skeptico/2005/04/what_the_bleep_.html

Deci, can you dumb it down for us in the 140 and under IQ section, please? I can almost follow you, but not quite.

I could say that I feel that there are a great number of people that I do not trust with weapons. Really getting down to the meat of it, I feel that the entire world should divest themselves of all armaments, and turn them over to me. I can be responsible with weaponry, but I don't trust anyone else completely with weapons, up to and including a salad fork. That is an unreasonable position, however, because I'm quite sure there are a goodly number of folk that are concerned that I have access to weapons. The best balance is that others are permitted to arm themselves, and this keeps me, or others like me, from making use of our own weaponry in an irresponsible manner. Unless I go bat-arsed crazy, in which case, all bets are off, weapon or no weapon. If ShenLung is on a rampage with a salad fork, having someone nearby armed with a pistol or rifle is a good insurance policy! Back when the United States was coming into being, the idea behind allowing private ownership of arms was essential. The first line of defense of the nation was the militia; that is, every able-bodied person, armed with their own arms. Maintaining a permenant army was not the goal of the founders, as they saw the potential for abuse in the maintenance of a standing army. All this machinery of warfare, all of these soldiers, and nothing for them to do ... the temptation to make use of the army would be so great as to draw the nation into conflict after conflict, when merely standing back and doing nothing is usually the best and wisest course of action. As the financial reality begins to sink in, the level of unsustainable spending and debt creation takes it's toll, our government will soon be incapable of financing even the very basic and fundemental functions of governance. The soldiers, half a world away, go unpaid. Who then will be capable of performing the vital task of national defense? Should we, as a people, surrender arms, and hope that the blue helmeted forces that will one day patrol our streets suddenly change from the habits of extortion, profiteering, rape, and murder that have so characterized them up until this point? Some day in the future, as in times past, the world may have need of the American people, with their independance, their sense of justice, and their weapons. Keeping the second amendment, there should be a relaxing of restrictions, not more restrictions. If incidents such as the school shooting are a concern, let us focus on the things that lead a person to wish to do harm, not the tools that are used; in all honesty, there is no effective method of disarming the world, even if we wanted to do so.

It is far easier to see the spirit in the inanimate. Ego, "I" conciousness can hide the true spirit, and human beings in particular have great facility in transforming spirits. In moments of mortal fear, the ego retreats, and a person's true nature may be revealed. During these moments, one may experience the world 'slowing down', and some of those rules of physics that we always assume to be constant do not neccessarily apply. This is where the adage "In order to truely know someone, you must fight him" comes from, the revealing of true spirit.

Putting it that way, it sounds like the cows have the better deal

My experience has been that the universe always provides whatever I need, sometimes at the last moment, but unfailingly. Wants are a different matter, there seems to be an if/then differential, as if sometimes, in order to fulfill one desire, it is impossible to fulfill another, or the time between the awareness of the desire until the moment of fulfillment can be longer. But then, I get into this sort of thought: If all of the movements of the universe are governed by laws and principles, and all that is within the universe already exists in motion, then even the firing of the synapses in the brain as one develops the desire is predestined, it was going to happen. The eventual manifestation of that desire is likewise predestined, and the entire desire/manifestation event is really an illusion, built into the program of reality that I am experiencing. Now I wonder, who's program is it? If it is my program, then all I need to do is make the arrangement at the beginning for whatever I desire to become manifest, and it will be there. So .. am I desiring and making events manifest, or is the upcoming manifestation a link back to the desire - I desire because it is already going to happen?

GmP gets a check for 135 pounds and a bus ticket home, with thanks, Sinfest, if you will follow those two gentlemen in the white coats, they will fit you for your own very special jacket, HNJT :Intelligence, resourcefulness, and willingness to make the sacrifice. All good officer qualities. You may have my chair! I don't know what to make of the idea that we choose what kind of life experiences we will have before we are born. If that is so, then the animals that wind up being slaughtered for food would have chosen that life. Thinking about the possibility of giving up my own life so that others might live, I feel a certain sense of respect and appreciation for those beings that, by choice or not, make such a sacrifice.

Among the tools that I keep is a machete, that friends of the house have taken to referring to as 'drinker'. Among a long line of edged implements, it has joined a larger family of items that seem to, by their very nature, delight in drinking human blood. I posess a number of tools of this sort, but this one is one that I reach for when I have a need to make use of it's particular properties. When anyone uses it for it's proper purpose, it performs reliably, without fail. Anyone who attempts to use it without respecting it's properties winds up being cut. It does not have an independant life force, it is not a "posessed" item, but still ...it has a spirit. When asked about the spirit of an object, a movement in human history, or of an entire system, there is something that cannot be reduced to any component part, an idea or form that prevades all conciousness. What is the spirit of a knife? a cup? a chair? From my perspective, a spirit is that irreducible component of things, which is reflected in the true nature, not the incidental purpose to which a thing is used. Examine everything around you, and ask What is it's true spirit?

I had intended to adress this in your 'what is spirit' post, and probably still will, when I get around to it. Teaching people to discern the spirit of things has surfaced a lot recently, outside of TTB, in the realm of martial arts, I've been working on the concept, transforming the idea of certain concepts .. the spear hand technique is approached as another form of strike. In the mind of most martial artists, any technique winds up being reduced to the spirit of 'to strike' or to bludgeon. This is disrespectful to the true spirit of the technique. The true spirit of a spear hand is to pierce, or to cut, if used as a sword. The reason that this technique is not widely taught in the western world is a fundamental misunderstanding of what the spirit is, and how to transform the spirit. With this misunderstanding, a martial artist attempting to make use of spear hand will wind up breaking their bones when attempting to break wood or stone with it. Gun, and bullet, also have their spirit, irreducible, that, without proper respect for what this spirit is, can lead to harm. Many who, when asked to define the spirit of a bullet, will say "to kill". This is incorrect. The true spirit of a bullet is to pierce, the same as the spirit of the spear hand. What use a person makes of this essential nature may vary, but the power to kill is an essential nature of the spirit of the person who kills, not the implement that represents their desires. This, above all other things, led me to the practice of dharma teachings, so that I would not desire to deliver death to others, but respect the desire for life in all sentient beings. I need no tools to deliver death, only desire.

Better still, learn to appreciate what we have, and learn to not seek what we do not need. Singing golden love to all, Shen

On earth, I might admit to being capable of going the full 60 days. In space, with only the chi of the universe to strengthen me, maybe not. I's good, but not that ambitious White wolf accepted for officer training, but his trials are far from over: what manner of service he is best suited for is yet to be determined, after further testing. from examining other postings, my assesment is field commission, rather than training officer, but there is another critical gate. we will get to that later .. this excercise is fun ... anyone else?

Choice: This one is hard to approach, and the outcome of discussion will wind up being split between the free will camp, and the destiny camp, and the axis of descision depends upon one's understanding of the very critical nature of reality itself. Tao, at the heart of it, comes from a particular perspective. Lightning strikes where it does due to certain principles that, although unseen, still dictate the resulting manifestations of reality. All cause and effect, verifiable positions in the understanding of reality are based upon the hidden law of nature. If the inumerable variables were known, could be calculated, could be put forth into practical life, then the outcome of any sequence of events could be known. The joke, in my particular circle of freinds, is that the man, in the middle of a plane crash says suddenly, "Oh, I forgot to carry the two!" The circle is, apparently, quite small. True choice comes in at two points of perception. One point is that, although one cannot always determine what experiences one will have, one always has a choice in how one chooses to percieve, or think about that experience. This is a perspective approach that I think anyone can embrace and gain benefit from. The other point of perception is a bit more metaphysical, a bit more steeped in quantum theory. Let us suppose that there are infinite universes coexisting, and that each one has, at it's heart, an individual that is primarily 'experiencing' that universe. In the infinite combination of possibilities, each "I'", could, being empowered to do so, make different choices, and have different experiences. At some point, the "I" could exchange their present conciousness with their analog in another universe, and experience existance from that point of view instead of the point of view that their current universe would seem to dictate. The choice, in the second example, seems to be rooted in what the individual conciousness wishes to experience, dependant upon having an analog that desires to make the exchange. Know yourself, in the tradition of the ancient mystery schools, seems to be the key to exploring this system of reality exchange. What kind of reality do you wish to experience?

Thought forms, created by an undisciplined mind, running about, doing... better not to send, than to slay too many, from the lay of Odin, comes to mind.

To be fair, I've got the gun and the knife as well, and I'm quite good with them. The point of the excercise is in what one values, beyond the desire for life itself. This is a gateway question for those who are not suitable for the rank and file of soldiery, but whos worth as an officer still needs to be determined. You would, perhaps make an excellent soldier, but are not one I would promote to officer if your tendancy were to go beyond the normal fences of discipline. That mind of yours is one that I would prefer to not risk in the hazards of the battlefield, if it can be helped.

Can practices that remove one blockage create another? Absolutely. On a small scale, looking at medicine, one can observe that treatments for one ailment often have side effects that lead to the development of a whole litany of other problems. on a larger scale, locking one's self or society as a whole into a set of beliefs can aleviate many ills, but lay the ground for a host of other problems at the same time. The whole self, the whole of society, the entire mass of humanity, have issues that result in suffering. The thought that I am pondering is likely repeated here and there in many ideologies, but it goes something like this: All illness has it's root in a spiritual problem. Once the root problem has been cured, the whole being will be cured. Like the joining of meridians at the crown, the major systems of belief have, at their root, a base in Tao. Disjointed as they are, the hand does not see it's connection to the heart, the foot does not see it's connection to the liver. Treating a sick person with kiatsu, I can move the disturbance through the systems until it is dispelled. If that can be done quicker than nature will accomplish the task without interferance, then the treatment is good; otherwise, it is a farce perpetuated solely for the purpose of maintaining my status as a 'healer'. I don't get much business. Does the heart envy the creative potential of the hand? Does the foot resent the liver for just going along for the ride? I feel that if all beings were to embrace Tao, and practice it's principles, then we could experience a world at peace, yet there are passages in TTC that indicate that sages, in governing, keep the people ignorant of such wisdom. Better, then, that sages embrace Tao, and do nothing ... the cure may be worse than the ill.

An interesting mental puzzle: You are on a space station, where an accident has occurred. The computers are down, the food supply lost or contaminated, and only a small pod with it's life-support systems remain. This is where the survivors of the catastrophe have gathered, each with only the clothes they were wearing in their posession. Among the survivors is a botanist, who has just discovered the cure for a disease that kills hundreds of thousands each year, a priest who has had an insight that will lead to the enlightenment of everyone, and a career military officer (that is you). Aid from earth, sixty days away. Knowing that this is long enough for most to die from starvation, Logic dictates that one of the survivors will have to die in order for the remaining two to have enough food to survive until the rescue arrives. What do you do?

Seperating "wind": Religeons, customs, traditions, and schools of thought ... people all over the world have them. I believe that it would be fair to say that the average person among the seven billion-ish In our world are affected by their own particular environment of ideologies, but the majority do not give them much deep scrutiny. Most people just live their lives, engage in the local customs, attend the religeous ceremonies and participate in a very practical way. They do not need any sort of deep understanding for the questions that they might bring to the 'priest' caste of society. People who come to TTB, generally, do not fit into this category. Being told "you must sacrifice a goat in order to appease the deity" is not an answer that the typical bummer can accept ... but all over the world, that is good enough, for the average person (depending on the culture, of course) In the company of bummers, I am just another amongst the throngs of seekers, priests, kings, and gods of their own particular universes. So, in studying the belief systems of the peoples of the world, I try to discern what parts are meant to appease the casual visitor, what parts are meant to mold society, what parts elevate the novice towards greater understanding, and what parts reflect the deeper mysteries. To refer to any part as 'mere wind' seems dismissive, but it is from a personal perspective, as it does nothing for advancing my own understanding. The bared bones of any ideology are still usefull when holding discourse with another who is steeped in that particular ideology - I don't completely discard and dismiss them; for someone, they have value and meaning. And that someone just might be one who extracted something that I might have missed.

Yes'm, a bit ... I've done a fair bit of walking around the mountain, trying to figure out which bits of what systems are functional, and which parts are wind, so i've picked up a mixed bag of tricks. Stuff that seems to work based upon personal experience I tend to keep, stuff that seems reasonable but is unproven goes in the theory drawer. I'll admit to having a certain fondness for some theories, even though I have no reliable method to test them - reincarnation for one. That would be nice, although I don't remember being someone else, nor am I dying to put it to the test Choice: a topic so pregnant with theoretics that I am going to pass over it for now. Short version: yes there is, and no there isn't, and both may be true. Gonna need more coffee for that one. Control of emotions: Due to the unpleasantness of certain emotional states and the apparant reactions to indulging in them, or at least indulgence to excess, I favor efforts to manage and/or subliminate them. Love, I enjoy in all of its manifestations from affection to eros, although not in equal measures for all persons. If that is hypocritical, I can live with that. For the management of disturbing emotions, I have found application of some Buddhist teaching to be effective for me, like medicine for disease. Pride it hasn't licked yet ... not even sure I want to give that one up, maybe just crank it down a little. A note on one item from that toolkit: Anger can be defeated by compassion, arising from understanding, which, for me, came forth from a realisation of unity through qi gong practices elevating and refining the living being that is "I", not from simply meditating on emptiness, which is all the rage in some circles these days. That does not invalidate the experience of those who took that route, of course.

K, yer makin' my head hurt .. so many questions, and the opening topic I need clarified ... when refering to ideaologies vehicled by ... vehicles, are you meaning "a belief or set of beliefs that are not directly passed on as instruction, but that one naturally adopts as a result of another practice" Ie, due to my experiences, I feel or believe that (x), not because someone told me this was so? Ok, I'll tackle these one at a time, starting from the end question, Dietary restrictions. I grew up as a meat eater, and one of the most deeply viscerally satisfying experiences for me is a nice, juicy medium rare prime rib with horseradish. However, it does require more energy to digest properly than lighter fare. In a quest to gain the maximum net energy from food, less waste, ect., I found myself going vegetarian, but not due entirely to a set of ideals lent to me by teachings. The vegetarianism is there in the core Buddhist doctrine with regard to the treatment of other sentient beings, but I'm of the mind that, if I were a cow, part of the existance includes an acceptance that my body might be used for the nourishment of other sentient beings, just as I don't begrudge the critters for munching on my meat when I'm done with it. Meat eating thread stuff, but the primary deciding factor for me was the net energy gain.