ShenLung

Yes. In my case, the desire for food just got less and less as I relied on qi more and more. This should not be a goal, in my opinion, just something to be aware of when it occurs during normal progress on your path. Back in '87 - ish, There was no one around that I could discuss this experience with, no teachers, ect .. just on my own, so it was kind of spooky.

There seems to be some interest in this topic, so I'll share what I know .. I kinda wound up spilling a bit more info on another thread than I usually do. I will copy and paste that here. I am not some guru or holy man, just a wisdom seeker with some interesting experiences: I was once obsessed with the nutritional value of food, and wanted to find out exactly what foods I should eat, and in what proportions in order to gain the optimal delivery of nutrients, with the minimal amount of waste. An associate asked me why I was doing this, and I said, "I want to be able to avoid going to the bathroom as much as possible." If that seems absurd to you, you aren't alone, because she then asked "Why go to such trouble? When you excrete, it is just dung, and dung forms soil, which plants need to grow." I immediantly replied, "yes, but when I do this, I feel less than divine." Eventually, I began to make do with just sunshine and water. I did this for twenty nine days, with no loss of body mass or weakness (I actually felt more energetic) Healing abilities were phenomonal, and insights came fast and powerfully. At one point, I percieved the entirety of creation as one equation attempting to solve itself ... and despite the apparent complexity, it was delightfully simple. I stopped at 29 days because the thirty day mark holds a certain significance for me, and I was already beginning to experience strong egoist urges. Also, I observed that although I was not consuming in the usual way, I was draining the life out of every plant that I stayed in contact with for any amount of time. I lost three golden cypress and one juniper bonsai during that time. I was asked about my practice during that time: Qigong: Every breath, when possible Neigong skin breathing. Lots of weidan and sitting meditation (see Tao) I was contemplating working on breath with no breath*, but couldnt quite pull it off. It might be doable, but not at that level of understanding, still working on it, or will be, when I finish just enjoying life some more Tao: absolute understanding, holding the mean (hehe ... I hadn't read TTC yet, though, which is kinda funny holding the mean not completely accomplished, there was some localized problems, like the houseplants) Buddhist philosophy: Lots of virtue cultivation, (working on) Mastery of the negative emotional states I couldn't get past ego, or did not want to at that time. I am fairly certain that if I had kept going, fixed the plant issue, and really been able to let go of the self, a pure energy state would have been realised. I believe they call this 'rainbow body' or something. In any case, a physical existance would have been completely impossible - not ready for that, maybe never will want it that badly - but never is a long time Other factors: Leading up to this period, heavy meditation and spiritual work, Buddhist mind training, vegitarian diet, intense physical excercise routine (gym/judo with a one day break each week ... takes a LOT of veg. protein to keep up, I ate like a horse!) Keen interest in the supernal sephirot - this was before '95, so the work was difficult, filled with dead ends and insoluble puzzles. Might have been a factor. Incense (cedar, sandlewood, frankincense, myrrh, and hemp - had pot smoking roomies, so contact highs were occurring regularly ) Music: variety, all very mathematically logical stuff, clean sound. Lots of observation and appreciation of nature, respect for life. X factors: I'm a walk-in, began experiencing the physical manifestation when this body was five years old, no memory-in-body from up to that point. I am also energy blind: I can feel subtle energy, but cannot see it. hmm, what else? Synesthesia: hearing light, feeling sound, ect. This probably helps make some connections in the brain that might be overlooked otherwise. I think many people have reported this experience while under the influence of hallucinogens, but I don't know - they don't seem to affect me. (edit) forgot to mention: NO SMOKING .. tobacco has been used shamanistically to banish both negative and positive energetic forces .. it is kind of like the damper rods in a nuclear reactor for subtle energy. *Not the skill of concealing motive described in Go Rin No Sho, but actually drawing life sustaining energy without the need for air. Bringing this up has made me go do some extra study, and I now feel that this is a perversion of the meaning of breath with no breath. Spleen strengthening excercises might enable one to maintain a supply of oxygenated blood for extended periods, enabling far longer intervals without breathing. I will test this theory next time I pull the dampers out and get into practice.

Focus too much on the effect that you seek creates resistance ... You must let go, and allow it to happen. Will --> struggle. When training Muay Thai, progress is made through will/struggle/push. This is a form of qi training, and you have experience with it, but it does not help with developing the skill set that you are working on now. Using, yes .. but not developing. Somehow, you must find a way to place your former experience on a shelf. You will not loose it, don't worry Desire --> permission. Internal development is going to be working the other side of qi. Push, and the gate stays closed. Move yourself out of the way; be not in the darkness, but truely merge yourself with the nature of emptiness, then permit the energy to flow through you. As emptiness itself, you will naturally be filled. This requires developing an entirely different mindset. Focusing on the object works with will/push. You push through to your target. In Desire/permit, the object must be drawn to you, which means that your capacity must be greater than the object .. you must go deeper and farther. Seeing through the mind's eye is an experience within that sea of conciousness that will come to you as you open up to the whole. Effortlessly

+1 on 8 strands. Even doing one excercise is beneficial, and not much of a radical change .. you can ease into longer sets later, if it is to your liking.

Every time I scroll past this thread, I see "Man eating", not the actual title, until I take a second look. I mean .. don't get me wrong, humans are tasty and all, but ... they are just full of all kinds of parasites, diseases, toxins, heavy metals, ect. Not healthy food, really. Probably because of their diets.

Doc, I've got a problem ... every night when I go to sleep, I levitate six inches off of my bed. Oh really? says the doctor. Nothing to worry about, just take up smoking, the problem will dissapear in no time. Yet, I agree with GMP - investigation of all possible causes of phenomenon doesn't hurt, especially if something's wrong.

Qigong: Every breath, when possible Neigong skin breathing. Lots of weidan and sitting meditation (see Tao) I was contemplating working on breath with no breath*, but couldnt quite pull it off. It might be doable, but not at that level of understanding, still working on it, or will be, when I finish just enjoying life some more Tao: absolute understanding, holding the mean (hehe ... I hadn't read TTC yet, though, which is kinda funny holding the mean not completely accomplished, there was some localized problems, like the houseplants) Buddhist philosophy: Lots of virtue cultivation, (working on) Mastery of the negative emotional states I couldn't get past ego, or did not want to at that time. I am fairly certain that if I had kept going, fixed the plant issue, and really been able to let go of the self, a pure energy state would have been realised. I believe they call this 'rainbow body' or something. In any case, a physical existance would have been completely impossible - not ready for that, maybe never will want it that badly - but never is a long time Other factors: Leading up to this period, heavy meditation and spiritual work, Buddhist mind training, vegitarian diet, intense physical excercise routine (gym/judo with a one day break each week ... takes a LOT of veg. protein to keep up, I ate like a horse!) Keen interest in the supernal sephirot - this was before '95, so the work was difficult, filled with dead ends and insoluble puzzles. Might have been a factor. Incense (cedar, sandlewood, frankincense, myrrh, and hemp - had pot smoking roomies, so contact highs were occurring regularly ) Music: variety, all very mathematically logical stuff, clean sound. Lots of observation and appreciation of nature, respect for life. X factors: I'm a walk-in, began experiencing the physical manifestation when this body was five years old, no memory-in-body from up to that point. I am also energy blind: I can feel subtle energy, but cannot see it. hmm, what else? Synesthesia: hearing light, feeling sound, ect. This probably helps make some connections in the brain that might be overlooked otherwise. I think many people have reported this experience while under the influence of hallucinogens, but I don't know - they don't seem to affect me. (edit) forgot to mention: NO SMOKING .. tobacco has been used shamanistically to banish both negative and positive energetic forces .. it is kind of like the damper rods in a nuclear reactor for subtle energy. *Not the skill of concealing motive described in Go Rin No Sho, but actually drawing life sustaining energy without the need for air. Bringing this up has made me go do some extra study, and I now feel that this is a perversion of the meaning of breath with no breath. Spleen strengthening excercises might enable one to maintain a supply of oxygenated blood for extended periods, enabling far longer intervals without breathing. I will test this theory next time I pull the dampers out and get into practice.

Thank you, Eternal_Student. Yes, that explains the houseplants. One of my main concerns at the time was, If I am doing this so incorrectly that I am harming plants, how far from harming other living things am I? I've gotten much better at drawing from the poles and celestial bodies since then, but no real desire to repeat the experience; good enough for my satisfaction to touch upon it, and know the truth of it.

Not internal energy, no. I'm not sure how long it can be done, either .. I chickened out fairly soon into that experience.

That bit was over in Jing cuisine, K ... but if Eternal has some answers there, I'd like to hear them, too. Knowing it works, but not knowing how, or how it is getting done is puzzleing.

"To be yourself is all that you can do" .. Audioslave (I believe ) If the principles that one chooses to live by suggest that one should attempt to help others, self-honesty requires one to at least make the attempt. That it may fail spectacularly is a given, because others will be who they are, too.

Cat's "If I were to die tonight" refrain inspired me to spark up a new thread:) New stuff from all, if you like, or not. marco can just cut and paste, since his is already out there.

I heard this put a little differently some time ago ... links to the Tao are pretty clear. I've been debating whether to put this into the TTC study section under the heading "approaches to TTC". I was kind of hopeing that you were going there ...

Dern it, Cat, I can't keep up with all of the video posts qq I like where you're going with the breath, though .. more please

Not too fast there, MH ... because opiates are very good medicine, if properly used to make severe pain bearable

I "believe" that was Marx (Not Groucho) to which I added "and TV must be their cocaine"

Are you still hearing it?

Oh yeah .. they've been singing louder and louder all week

Dark chocolate is good for lowering the blood pressure: about one gram per day if one has issues, in addition to regulating the diet, ect. Very good for overall mood, as well. There's also an interesting tale of a catholic priest who was murdered by some of the ladies in his congregation when he forbade them from drinking chocolate during mass. I can go look it up, if anyone wants to hear it.

Yay! everyone is back to having fun, and I am blissfully confused as always! My work here is done

Hehe .. whatever wakes you up ... or lets you get settled in and comfy, depending on what you want to get from it

I get the sense that those sinister aspects might be the reason Demon Valley is written the way it is: If one can grasp it's meaning and uses, one is likely to already be fairly stable. Like seperating the ammunition from the weapon; when one can be responsible with it, one can put the two together.

IF you can keep your head when all about you Are losing theirs and blaming it on you, If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you, But make allowance for their doubting too; If you can wait and not be tired by waiting, Or being lied about, don't deal in lies, Or being hated, don't give way to hating, And yet don't look too good, nor talk too wise: If you can dream - and not make dreams your master; If you can think - and not make thoughts your aim; If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster And treat those two impostors just the same; If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools, Or watch the things you gave your life to, broken, And stoop and build 'em up with worn-out tools: If you can make one heap of all your winnings And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss, And lose, and start again at your beginnings And never breathe a word about your loss; If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew To serve your turn long after they are gone, And so hold on when there is nothing in you Except the Will which says to them: 'Hold on!' If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue, ' Or walk with Kings - nor lose the common touch, if neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you, If all men count with you, but none too much; If you can fill the unforgiving minute With sixty seconds' worth of distance run, Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it, And - which is more - you'll be a Man, my son! Kipling's the man! *respect*

No ... but I do have yarrow, which may look similar in some aspects, but far less dangerous. Prescribing a tea made of hemlock for disagreable philosophies is a horrible thing for a society to do. Oddly enough, hemlock does have some medicinal applications, as a weak tea of the roots can aleviate some of the effects of paralytic toxins such as experienced in tetanus infection. It is somewhat narcotic as well ... but I can't really recommend it, as concentrations in individual specimins are nearly impossible to judge, and the dose needed to treat is so close to the dose needed to kill. Extreme circumstances, maybe. Which leads us back on topic, I hope: many medicines, inapropriately used are poisonous, and the same can be said for religeous beliefs. If the person administering the cure does not know what is good for what, it would be better not to practice. The body's ability to naturally heal itself, and the spirit's ability to naturally seek enlightenment work well with little aid from either type of medicine; often, the most a physician should do is provide comfort while the process is taking place.

The tactic of requesting assistance is very good, I neglected to mention it. Fortunately, there are a lot of good minds working here! People like to feel that they are appreciated for something that they excell at; everyone has at least one outstanding quality. If one can find that, and admire it honestly, it will generate positive feelings. After assessing, you will know better what to do; they Way can lead (him? or you) to a behavior that is more harmonious with your goals. Making the noise reduction the first request seems like possibly closing too quickly; I would rather prove the material before committing to the final form. Ps ... Demon valley ... that's another nice text, if one can grok it!