Antares

Right. But this is entirely depends on a technics you do. So the phrase "attention (awareness) trumps intention" is not clear to me enough. I hope this is not political propaganda. Awareness is the part of intention and should not prevail it. Before you do anything there is a tiny intention coming from your Shen. I mentioned three aspects of qigong/neigong arts: 1)physical/ psychic 2) energetic 3) spiritual. So 3d one is playing huge role in it and is what differs it from calisthenics. The "spiritual" part implicates Shen force. Shen force can be thought of as combination of Xin (heart/mind) and Yi (intention), as well as that part of us which controls both. Ting is only part of it and should not prevail. There is Yi Quan where we can use Yi not as Ting only but for martial purposes as well. There are Yang and Yin aspects in it. And one of the goals is to find BALANCE.

Not really, the query was more in re to preparatory "tai chi" movements. And I provided the video above with what sort of movements I meant. But you provided quite internal method which differs from previous one. But anyhow even in this method there is a work of YI (intent). And if one looks through his channel thoroughly they will see video explaining the work of YI. He talks more about Yi, but not about Ting and Song (watch 6:20) Sinking requires work of your Yi. I would agree that one should not imagine roots - that would be wrong approach. But in general there should be work of Yi and that' what this guy says comparing Yi with awareness. Awareness is not imagination. He says "then the commanding part is intention to move...that is Yi...just command every part of the movement. This is the training of the quality of your intention" 9:05 "then when you want to move you command your movement, the chi follows that movement"

This discussion began from the query on "tai chi swings" movements or some similar movements if I got it right. I just wonder how that happens that there is no intention involved in such movements or involved in small degree. May be I did not understand the query. What is the purpose of these exercices and how it works? Please disclose your point of view on this issue. How does it work with minimum intention? For example, you lift hands up and down. There is certain intention involved in movements. Where does this command to move your hands come from?

I mean that Chinese masters do not explain the energy flow and what the movements for. Of course, they will give correct instructions but without much explanations how movements effect energy

So you want to say that your shovel is moved for itself almost without intent when you allow your attention working? It depends on a method is used. There can be spontaneous movements and in this case, yes, intention is used in a small degree, but in other methods we have certain method with certain movements. Try to do tai chi forms without intention. Are you on the level when these forms are doing you but it is not you who does the movements without any intent?

It depends on the level of practice and the method of practising. In the beginning one uses will and control but on more advanced levels tje work of intention is involved. This is simple and not at the same time

I disagree. Many (almost all) arts have lost the method of Ming from way back. So they involve a way much mind work now. The same is in qigong which is the product of 20th century. But in some qigong methods it can be used as a part of preparatory methods. So returning to the issue of the potent systems , I presume that only methods which are based on the work of preaheven qi can be consedered as Potent systems. All vizualization based methods involve postheaven qi circulation which can promote benefits but in many cases it only harms one's preheaven qi in long perspective. This is postheaven qi circulation which will harm your preheaven qi if you use mind control and visualization.

Yes, imagination is the hindrance for energy flow. But intention differs from imagination. I don't agree with that guy on the video above that one needs to imagine colours of the energy. But intention is important. In China teachers don't explain movements, they just give it as it is. And when disceple has obtained enough qi level then they should realize what movement does. So this is a matter of energy and correct structure of the body and all of this implements attention of course. They say "Yi leads qi ". Yi can also be interpreted as 'intention'. Where your intention goes, your energy follows. And I can not agree that attention trumps intentions. Both of them should be implicated

I will give you an example. Watch initial movements here. Their efficiency depends on the intent with which it is done

There are a few levels in qigong/neigong systems. It depends on Yi development so movements work on the levels of: 1) Physical / psychical 2) Energetics 3) Spiritual For the latter one the previous two are of great importance but implicate the work of Yi/Intent and it is where spiritual work begins. Also the state of mind is of great importance. The two visually similar movements may work on different levels. It depends on who and how does it

Immediate boost of energy, pleasent feelings inside, good and deep sleep

Yes, but kidneys channels in the first place. Watch movements carefully, the secret is in ""yining" and "yanging". But better to do with instructor for one can fall into desires. Hope you familar with daogong. If you combine them the better effect you will get. First do daogong, then taichi chih.

The person who taught me 8+1 exercises mentioned once that there is a man in USA who brought it from China and lived long but his system is not original one because he added a few more movements and slightly changed it. Also he said that what they teach is original set which was secret method of Chinese Emperors. So i believe that there are 9 basics exercises of the ancient set of exercises.

I did not practise it long enough in order to be able to evaluate it fully. I learnt it in Wu Liu's branch in Russia 6 years ago and the story in re of the origin of this system comes from there. I did not do research on this system. Also to be honest I mentioned it here for the further investigation of this system. At that time I had been practising it for about 6 months and then shifted to another methods which I considered more advanced. So I stopped doing it after 6 months of practice. I was said that it works on all levels including health and spiritual one. There is actually one exercise in it where one should move hands high on the level above the top of the head and as far as got it right it helps the spiritual evolution but my instuctor did not recommend doing it as it is recommended for advanced practitioners. So I can not recommend doing all exercises if you are not ready for that. It is not recommended to cultivate top tan tien in the beginning as it can move energy up into the head. Just mention it for safety reason. At that time the benefit out of practising it was the energy boost straight after doing it. So they teached only 8 exercises as part of the initial preparation for more advanced methods. But the main initial method there is Daogong which I have been practising mainly. Recently I come across this system on the youtube and decided to try it again. This time I did more exercises after Daogong and.... WOW... it was feeling like "kundalini" awakening. Now every time I do it I feel "awakening" and very pleasent feellings like pleasent currents of qi moving inside. I started making investigation on the system. As for whether it is correct on the video I dunno as I learnet only 8 out of them. These 8 are shown right on the video but to me it seems they lift hands too high. May be it is not good to lift hands so high for the beginners at least. Only I can say that system balances yin and yang and nourishes kidneys, also works on central channel. Also they gave me a few another neigong methods to open up legs channels which help to benefit more from this systems.

Incredibly powerful system. Justin Stone brought it from China in 70th. This system was invented by Yang Luchang for the Chinese Emperor Court for he was famous martial artist at that time and was invited by the Emperor to teach the Court martial skills. The Emperor had harem and was very busy with all his day to day activities. So he needed a lot of energy for all his activites and asked Yang Luchan to teach him energy cultivation system for gaining power. Yang invented this system for this request and he used some tai chi movements which he simplified so that lay people could practise it. The feature of tai chi chih is that it works with Ming channels. Justin Stone died at age of 95. If you do it right you can feel joy and even bliss during execution and after exercises have been done. Good for eldery people for maintaining health issues.

Here I will answer to Terry Dunn's post in his thread: I will start by saying that while you are entitled to your own belief that "a practitioner should avoid any dreaming on the advanced level of practice", your statement that it is taught or upheld universally by a singular or monolithic "Taoist Tradition" is absolute wrong, fallacious and misleading, and counterproductive in that it only sews confusion in a beginner of Qigong of any tradition--whereas an advanced practitioner would have had enough experiential truth to know that the matter is absolutely moot and thus know to take issue with you. I have to answer in this thread because I was strictly prohibited to answer re lucid dreaming subject in his own thread (I can only guess why). Well, l would appriciate if anyone can cite taoist scriptures where it is said that there are taoist lucid dreaming practices which were practiced by any renown taoist masters of the past. Contrary, I could find only texts where is said that taoist adepts seem to have negative attitudes toward dreams https://www.persee.fr/doc/asie_0766-1177_1995_num_8_1_1090

This is not only about FP, dreams and yuan qi... This all is about human being. If one does not believe that yuanqi does exist it does not mean that it does not exist. We have to realise that all people are born, getting older and finally dying, This is the truth of the world

Well, I understand your point but do not understand why the reaction on my query is so harsh. I personally would appreciate any grounded view on any aspect of human spiritual development. I just wanted to know the perspective of FPQ on Yuan Jing (because it is one of the basic fundamentals im any taoist art) and that why I brought up this topic in this thread. No, this is not BASTARDIZATION at all. May be I used the wrong word "converting" instead of "turning" but in general it is last stage of the spiritual transformation in taoist arts. For example https://internalwudangmartialarts.com/2016/04/01/the-four-stages-in-wudang-meditation/ So you suppose this is absolutely irrelevant to the FPQ system? What is the final goal of FPQ may I ask then? Thanks

Hi, I am not "picking apart" the method of FPQ but reason about practices during the sleep. That said all people have the same body structure and energies mechanics. Pre-Heaven Jing is the energy that person obtains from his/her parents (and has certain limited volume) and when it is exhausted the person passes away. More over that I wonder about the FP approach to that energies mechanics

Dear Stive, there are some nuances in regard to the energy that one works with. There are Xiantian and Houtian energies and we have to consider both of them and what is happening on both levels while working with our internal Qi. Even if FP healing Qi has its own properties anyway it can be either postheaven or pre-heaven Qi. But most important is what is happening on the level of pre-heaven Qi. As far as I know only high level masters are capable of seeing this type of Qi.

Dear Earl Grey! (Nice nickname, just wonder is it cause you like this tea? I like Puerh). By no any means I wish it is regarded as any sort of arguing or disrespect. I personally respect any genuine practitioner and have no intention to criticize anyone on this thread. I had previous background in FPQ practice and I enjoyed it at that time. Recently I felt like I am missing something in my practice and I do not know why I recalled FPQ!!! I began reading this thread again and I really enjoyed just reading it. I like warm atmosphere of this thread. One night I did 1st standing med Monk Gazing the Moon and then I did first warm up exercise on vol. 2. SoI did only 2 meds! That night I had a very vivid dream and it still continues to be very vivid and next day I felt that even at day time my perception was more vivid. So I can feel how powerful FPQ . But I am not sure whether I need to experience these vivid dreams at all. That' where my query comes from!

Well, I have nothing to say against Sifu Terry's opinion and by no any means I oppose " my" theory to his theory on the mastery of sleeping but I only remind you what TT says on this issue. As I can recall Sifu Terry said a few times that FPQ is based purely on taoist teaching, so this observation is made having regard to practical reasons from taoist perspective. I just want to add that retrograde Mercury forced me to re-read many pages on this thread and and I decided to chime in and share some of my observations. I have no any desire to post it for general discussion on the TTB as I am not inetersted in it. On this forum people say what they like and what they want how it should be, for me it will be idle waste of time As for FPQ I have nothing to say against this practice and honestly I think that this is one of the best qigong that is available in the West. But I personally regard it as good form of tao yin which can impat a lot of profound benefits to many practitioners all over the world. Best regards, Yauhen

Hello everyone. Let me chime in. As far as I know according to the authentic Taoist Tradition (TT) a practitioner should avoid any dreaming on the advanced level of practice. The reason for that is very simple - dreaming, especially vivid lucid dreaming, depletes one's jing and pactitioner must preserve it for converting it into Shen. But for that there must be a special alchemical method. In the beginnig of this thread I read that Feng Tao Te invented this system while sitting in deep meditation for 9 years. He seemed to do that on the last stage of the alchemical practice (converting Shen into Emptiness). It might mean that he reached the very high level of the alchemical mastery and gained Immortality. By the way did anyone have channeling to Feng Tao Te?

Archivist, cordyceps has concentrated form of yuan qi in it. But it does not mean it will replenish your yuan qi for itself. It helps to balance energy on the Ming level