Antares

I did not understand what you meant in the first sentence. But I would agree with the last one. I know this out of my own experience that it's better to concentrate on one particular method until mastering it well. Otherwise a person will fall into the problem of having choice. It' better when Teacher can give you certain method which is the best for you. But as for Daogong is quite universal and everyone can benefit from it. I do not say that this is only the right method, there are many other good methods but Daogong could be a good basis for any other practice including Mabu stance. In order to be able to stay right in the MaBu or pile, it's better to do some basic dynamic exercises which goal is to open meridians first and to remove blockages. That' why Daogong is so important in the very beginning. But some people want to get something advanced from the beginning. I myself was one of those people. Another problem that I have mentioned already is that there are a lot of "methods" available here and there, and mind begins wandering trying to choose "right " one. I was in theese shoes myself and this was a real obstacle for me. And yes, one should try a method and feel whether he/she likes it or not. The choice of the right practice should come from the heart but not from the mind. Just try and see whether like it or not.

Chinese Teachers do test students prior to giving them authentic method. This is not like in the West people can buy something on the internet just by clicking "place into the basket" button.... I did not even mention how long our teacher had been looking for the authentic Teacher meeting many fake teachers. But westerners think if they pay money they will automatically buy results... So ridiculous

I do not remember when he said this. May be he said that on the certain stage it is possible but in the beginning everyone needs to find true Teacher. http://www.all-dao.com/difference-qigong-alchemy.html Xuanzhenzi asked: "It is that for the first time we join the Secret Teaching and don’t yet understand very much the difference between qigong and Taoist alchemy and I ask the Teacher to tell me and other followers about it." The Teacher of Single Yang said: "From the ancient time till the present day at Taoist alchemy a transmission of Teacher has always been, (what is called) an oral admonition and heart-to-heart transmission. And it was very strictly closed and secret. In the process of reaching perfection a strict detailed sequence exists (steps of perfection) and if you advance at the practice step by step in accordance with the oral admonition of the true Teacher, then after mastering each stage the true sign of (successful mastery of this stage) will always manifest.

Right. As I said Daogong is best when practising in a group. But I heard that even Skype classes do give some good results to some people. Honestly I am critical about Skype sessions. I think (it is my personal believe) it is given in order to give a glimpse of the WuLiuPai system. But it is good balancing system for itself. In order to have benefits out of it one must do it RIGHT. Of course there might be other good balancing systems. But the next question is what other system can give you further? Do not forget that this is Daoist thread and we consider Daoists approaches here (not Buddist ones or anything else). To answer this question we need to really realize the difference between WuLiuPai and other methods. Just as an example, if you visit "Potent systems" thread then you can see how easily people changing systems and teachers. Why is that? I know the answer. There is no preheaven work at all and that systems can not give great results just by definition. Wrong statement. But I agree that other forms can give similar results. But at the eand of it what will be next step in other system? Remember that every qigong waste yuan qi even if it gives some unussual results. I am not writing it to you. Alchemy is not for everyone so feel free to walk on the market....

Just want to comment this post. Out of my experience one month of mastering Daogong is not enough. The progress depends on few factors such as: - sincerity of a student - his/her lifestyle and habbits - ability to learn and achieve goals - his/her destiny (karma) - stability of practising - Teacher (not every teacher is right for a certain student) - personal vices of a student What I personally like in Daogong that it gives very smoothing effect on my mind and energy, and I can really experience difference in the state of it before and after practising it. Best results can be achieved in a group classes. As for money issue... Ha ha... You probably think that somebody should spend his yuan qi for free? That's the difference between Daogong and other qigong methods. Daogong has alchemical core and that why it is so uniqe. It is impossible to learn from Immortals not having right physical Teacher and right traditional method. Then we need to realize what transmission is. It never was free even in China. Students had to work for their masters not even having a hope to receive method.

Well, Daogong is actually the set of exercises which is comprised of a few different exercices taken out from traditional wushu styles such as xingyiquan and iquan. This is NOT from Wuliupai at all but is used in Russian branch of Wuliupai as one out of the heart balancing methods. Also I want to say that its benefits is very subtle and they are not necessarily can be very obvious in the very beginning. The main idea behind it (as I believe) is to gain stabillity of the heart and to get some sensitivity of Qi. To all those guys who want quick results I can say that our Teacher Dmitry Artemyev had to practise initial method for 6 years when he arrived to China and it turned out that it was not WuLiuPai method. It was just a checking of his real intention and abillity to practise. Skype sessions might be very good but I believe it is always better to practise in person because there is a very important issue which makes all the difference and it relates to Alchemy and traditional approach itself. This difference is the capstone of all real traditional methods. I think that Opendao wanted to point this out but as I can see not many people can even grasp this idea. In general this is very uniqe case that real Neidan tradition went out of China. Probably one might arguing here that I want to promote or sell anything here but I will disagree then with this person. I don't sell anything and not even thinking about this. As for WuLiuPai I can say that this is very uniqe school and I doubt that anything else of this sort will go out of China soon. Normally chinese daosits do not accept foreingers and that D. Artemyev was accepted as a student was a case of Destiny.

I am not instructor and can not give precise answer to this question but as far as I got it everyone begins from the very beginning in Neidan. It does not matter how a person is gifted spiritually. It's because all aspects should be worked out from the very beginning - at the beginning we need to build (cleanse) channels for pre-heaven energy. How many people already have it? It may take less time for preparation for a gifted person but there are no shortcuts concerning methods.

No, I think he is very busy now to answer your questions. Do you know how many people ask him questions every day at this time? And yes, the best way to clear any doubts is to travel to Saint Petersburg and take classes and seminars. That's what I did actually. But if one can't travel I could recommend to take online classes on Daogong which is quite important part of all other systems that are taught in DaoDe center. One will need approx. 1-2 years to work out Daogong before practising Neidan. Also shengong for kidneys is very good to do along with Daogong. I believe that Daogong would be very beneficial for everyone whatever he/she practices else. It helps to bring balance and stability, and also vitality. There are some exercises from WLP in Daogong and it has alchemical foundation in it and it's not just qigong. So I want to say that it's better to ask questions when you PRACTICE it and then teacher will answer questions as well as will be able to correct energetic imbalances in a student and give advises regarding practical aspects of a system . That' the best way of clearing doubts that one might have regarding any spiritual system. (Neidan is the best one for westerners I believe ) If one is very interested in it i would recommend either to take online classes or attend a seminar on Daogong, build the foundation in Daogong and then when one feels changes it would be much easier to grasp alchemical exercises. WuLiuPai system is not given to people who can not attend intensive seminars that are held every 3-6 months. Otherwise it won't work properly and can be dangerous for a student. But YuXianPai school is more open and there are no that much strict requirements. WuLiuPai is based on "heart to heart" transmission from the very beginning that's not the case in the beginning of YXP system. There is more emphasis on "clearing the heart" In YXP in the beginning. May be I wrong in something for I dont know well all aspects of both schools but that's what I heard myself from instructors in Russia. So, it is worth trying Daogong plus YXP's alchemical "cleansing " exercises and give it a try to do your best for 1-2 years in order to be able to estimate how it works for you. There are no any other ways to clear any doubts regarding this system Sorry if I am not correct in my English grammar. With the best regards

He met not only a goat and a few supernatural creatures (Immortal I believe) descended to teach him as well. So you think they were mortal? Any proof of that ?

No, you are wrong here. I have read some traditional Daoist texts and Baopuzi is one of them. You can read there how Huangdi, who is credited to be the founder of Daoism, got the Teaching and who had transmitted this Teaching to him

Also I wonder whether you mixed it with another practices? DON'T MIX IT with any other things. It could be a reason of getting ill

Anyway there are common things for both schools. If anyone is really interested in it I would recommend to go to Canada and practice it with Michael. The progress will be much faster if you want to work it out Even if you are ill don't give it up. It will help to recover. Use medicine mushrooms for faster recovery

Really? Is your teacher already Immortal? I have this irony because I believe (and this is traditional notion) that all authentic methods come from Immortals but not from mortal human beings who make up whatever they like and want to believe to. This is the way how traditional methods become trendy

Oh, some people always love to look for something new. Searching for the sake of searching. They call it spiritual search. Every month they get new DVD, new training, new teacher, new wandering

Well, there is a secret which makes all difference between qigong and neidan. Even Daogong could be either qigong or neidan depending on the approach how one does it. The matter is not in exercise for itself but in a few other factors. Also there is some difference whether you do it on your own or in the group with teacher. But anyway what you talk here is not about WuLiupai. WLP is something special and have different approach even comparing with YXP. For example, I could say that in WLP's Jiuyangshengong there are almost NO EXERCISES (in simplified version) at all but it works different way from qigong? Why is so? human mind can not understand it because it got used to do something - plenty of movements, asanas, breath, visualizations and so on... but when it is said not to do anything people can not understand it. Taoist Texts asks plenty of questions about this...

Neidan is not religion at all. When was it said that it is the most beneficial? We said that neidan (neigong) is the only real internal work in Daoism. There are a few other spiritual internal systems in Asia. But far not all of them are the same as Neidan. This difference was described in Daoist scriptures and instructors of the Dao De center rely on strict Daoist approach in training process. Who does not like it is free to go another way. It is strange to hear something about ego here

I totally agree with your opinion. It seems to be easy to understand but to me it seems that many people can't realize this simple notion of that fact that there is only one real way to genuine health, longevity and spirituality which is strict traditional approach whether it is neidan or neigong if we talk about Daoism. Some people want to find shortcuts by practicing suspicious and corrupted methods which they take from different sources. I used to do it myself but now I have been practicing some traditional methods for some period of time and I can see clear now how I was stupid and blind before and how much harm I did to myself practicing wrong methods. It was waste of time, money and life energy! Traditional approach is something very special and can not be compared to methods like qigong especially with self made or recently invented methods. The difference is like Heaven and Earth. It is very stupid to practice anything without CONSTANT supervision of the knowledgeable teacher in legit traditional lineage. Even experienced students get some deviations sometime. But Qigong for itself is recent invention and can not be the legit way to superb health and real enlightenment because it does not nourish Ming which is the foundation of real daoist approach to longevity and enlightenment. Another point that it is not easy to find nowadays and people want to substitute it with something else. I myself was in these shoes and I practiced methods from books and I trained with suspicious teachers, and only now I understand how i was wrong with that approach

Nice trolling. Continue, please. I agree with Opendao that NOT EVERYONE who is practicing Neidan is MASTER.

Taoist Texts Rejuvenation is only side-effect of the correct practice, but is not the goal. Nobody selling anything here. Not everyone who is practicing neidan looks young because of the several reasons: age, history of illnesses, level of the practice and personal karmic abilities to practice right i.e. Destiny. I would say that Destiny is the most important thing here. Neidan is not for everyone but for those who is destined for it. Destiny belongs to energetic body and Neidan is based on the way different approach than qigong. This is wrong in general to think about rejuvenation practicing Neidan. But, of course, all people can benefit from Neidan, but not everyone gets same results. Also it is wrong to think about expenses and money paid for the classes . If you are destined for it you will find the way, if you are not you will find the reason why not. As simple as that

I guess what such sort of people practice but I wont elaborate on it. Only I want to add is that what is called transmission is very very important in any "internal work". I do not believe that safe and potent methods really exist and that they provide "transmissions" through books or DVD's. There are so many subtle details in internal practices and if one does not get constant corrections it will cause deviations. I don't even talk about wrong techniques that are spread widely

Actually I forgot to mention that I used to practice some form of spontaneous qigong before , and would say that qigong is somewhat similar but in fact it is not the same as WuLiu' system is much more elaborated and more subtle in its work.

WuLiuPai system along with Daogong are the most potent systems that I have ever tried. I used to practice a few sorts of yoga mostly and Flying Phoenix Qigong for a few months(from DVDs). Well, WuliuPai system a way different thing from anything I have only seen in books and on video. The distinction is in that that it works with pre-heaven (pre- celestial) qi and the practice for itself is not similar to any qigong system that I have stumbled upon before. It gives very interesting sort of feeling of subtle balance especially after having practiced it in a group. The best term in which I can only describe it is like some invisible light vibrating inside and outside of me. PURE GOLD

Personally for me there seems to be a way too much "asanas" (forms) in Sun-Do. But it does not mean it gives the same results as it does in Neidan. The question is whether it is reverse or onward perfection of a practitioner

Here nothing is said about bringing attention to the LDT and forming DT by breath, but is said that this happens spontaneously. Best regards

I had a chance to talk to the main korean teacher of Kouk Sun Do (not Sun Do) and he said that this system is 9000 years old and has its origin in Korea. So he does not consider this system as Daoist. Sun Do is simplified american version of the Korean Kouk Sun Do. No, this is not IMHO. I personally familar with methods of 2 Daoist schools and there are nothing akin to KSD's methods in both of them. Also we have people who are students of a few other Chinese Daosit schools and there are no breath methods akin to KSD' methods. All these methods with putting attention on the LDT with breath come from qigong and yoga but has no relation to Neidan. Latter is based on other principles and methods differ noticeably from KSD. The reason is that breath relates to the postcelestial and it can't affect precelestial. Building the foundation in Neidan is based on work with precelestial qi which in its turn affects postcelestial but not the other way around. Best regards