Antares

Он из тех даосов, о которых Вы не лестно отзывались из - за их критики Ван Липина. Аркадий, добро пожаловать.

Once again. Here is nothing about "superiority" issue. It's all about traditional approach in Daoism. Let's admit that you have never visited China and you have never spoken to a Daosit Teacher. So how can you make any conclusions about what Daoism is and how its methods work? WLP does not expect that many people are coming there. It is not for everyone

This forum is only "area" where people can share their views on Daoism but frankly speaking how many real Daoists here? Some of us can openly reveal our names and we know genealogy of our Schools and Teachers. But who are these people: munky, taoist texts, awaken... They have no names, no teachers, no schools, no genealogy, but all of them have opinions on Daoism.

See what I mean. I don't attack any school or people stating that they don't have results. If I do this then I would have to prove it somehow or to give explicit evidence of that. Saying that "no one should prove anything...", I mean that teachers must not prove anything to lay people as they are not interested in it.

What about to make a commitment to enter any real Daoist school and get your owm results rather than constantly asking to prove everything to you? "A journey of the thousand miles beging with a single step..." What will be your single step, check checkers of the checkers?

There is no such thing as spontaneous qigong in WLP. Jiuyangshengong is based on yuang jing movement and it has different mechanics from qigong

Does XYP exist in China? Are there texts and teachers of this school in China?

Well, can't say precisely that it was not part of WLP but it was given to check student. But there was not choice for him. May be it was the challenge - even if he did not like it then the option was only to get in love with it And I think here the trust to the Teacher is the most important thing.

Agree. Contemporary people have another mindset espec. in the West. And yes, I am one of them. I recall myself buying a lot of books and DVDs online thinking that this or that method would help me a lot. The problem is that we have a lot of "choices" what to do and what is right or not for ourselves. But all this is coming from our speedy mindset. Our environment speeds up our hearts (minds) and then we cant do right choice and cant even listen to the heart. (not telling about everyone though) Yeah, this quickness imbalances minds. But yin and yang begin to split up from the very early age. This is what alchemy works with - to bring it together and this is the most difficult thing

I did not understand what you meant in the first sentence. But I would agree with the last one. I know this out of my own experience that it's better to concentrate on one particular method until mastering it well. Otherwise a person will fall into the problem of having choice. It' better when Teacher can give you certain method which is the best for you. But as for Daogong is quite universal and everyone can benefit from it. I do not say that this is only the right method, there are many other good methods but Daogong could be a good basis for any other practice including Mabu stance. In order to be able to stay right in the MaBu or pile, it's better to do some basic dynamic exercises which goal is to open meridians first and to remove blockages. That' why Daogong is so important in the very beginning. But some people want to get something advanced from the beginning. I myself was one of those people. Another problem that I have mentioned already is that there are a lot of "methods" available here and there, and mind begins wandering trying to choose "right " one. I was in theese shoes myself and this was a real obstacle for me. And yes, one should try a method and feel whether he/she likes it or not. The choice of the right practice should come from the heart but not from the mind. Just try and see whether like it or not.

Chinese Teachers do test students prior to giving them authentic method. This is not like in the West people can buy something on the internet just by clicking "place into the basket" button.... I did not even mention how long our teacher had been looking for the authentic Teacher meeting many fake teachers. But westerners think if they pay money they will automatically buy results... So ridiculous

I do not remember when he said this. May be he said that on the certain stage it is possible but in the beginning everyone needs to find true Teacher. http://www.all-dao.com/difference-qigong-alchemy.html Xuanzhenzi asked: "It is that for the first time we join the Secret Teaching and don’t yet understand very much the difference between qigong and Taoist alchemy and I ask the Teacher to tell me and other followers about it." The Teacher of Single Yang said: "From the ancient time till the present day at Taoist alchemy a transmission of Teacher has always been, (what is called) an oral admonition and heart-to-heart transmission. And it was very strictly closed and secret. In the process of reaching perfection a strict detailed sequence exists (steps of perfection) and if you advance at the practice step by step in accordance with the oral admonition of the true Teacher, then after mastering each stage the true sign of (successful mastery of this stage) will always manifest.

Right. As I said Daogong is best when practising in a group. But I heard that even Skype classes do give some good results to some people. Honestly I am critical about Skype sessions. I think (it is my personal believe) it is given in order to give a glimpse of the WuLiuPai system. But it is good balancing system for itself. In order to have benefits out of it one must do it RIGHT. Of course there might be other good balancing systems. But the next question is what other system can give you further? Do not forget that this is Daoist thread and we consider Daoists approaches here (not Buddist ones or anything else). To answer this question we need to really realize the difference between WuLiuPai and other methods. Just as an example, if you visit "Potent systems" thread then you can see how easily people changing systems and teachers. Why is that? I know the answer. There is no preheaven work at all and that systems can not give great results just by definition. Wrong statement. But I agree that other forms can give similar results. But at the eand of it what will be next step in other system? Remember that every qigong waste yuan qi even if it gives some unussual results. I am not writing it to you. Alchemy is not for everyone so feel free to walk on the market....

Just want to comment this post. Out of my experience one month of mastering Daogong is not enough. The progress depends on few factors such as: - sincerity of a student - his/her lifestyle and habbits - ability to learn and achieve goals - his/her destiny (karma) - stability of practising - Teacher (not every teacher is right for a certain student) - personal vices of a student What I personally like in Daogong that it gives very smoothing effect on my mind and energy, and I can really experience difference in the state of it before and after practising it. Best results can be achieved in a group classes. As for money issue... Ha ha... You probably think that somebody should spend his yuan qi for free? That's the difference between Daogong and other qigong methods. Daogong has alchemical core and that why it is so uniqe. It is impossible to learn from Immortals not having right physical Teacher and right traditional method. Then we need to realize what transmission is. It never was free even in China. Students had to work for their masters not even having a hope to receive method.

Well, Daogong is actually the set of exercises which is comprised of a few different exercices taken out from traditional wushu styles such as xingyiquan and iquan. This is NOT from Wuliupai at all but is used in Russian branch of Wuliupai as one out of the heart balancing methods. Also I want to say that its benefits is very subtle and they are not necessarily can be very obvious in the very beginning. The main idea behind it (as I believe) is to gain stabillity of the heart and to get some sensitivity of Qi. To all those guys who want quick results I can say that our Teacher Dmitry Artemyev had to practise initial method for 6 years when he arrived to China and it turned out that it was not WuLiuPai method. It was just a checking of his real intention and abillity to practise. Skype sessions might be very good but I believe it is always better to practise in person because there is a very important issue which makes all the difference and it relates to Alchemy and traditional approach itself. This difference is the capstone of all real traditional methods. I think that Opendao wanted to point this out but as I can see not many people can even grasp this idea. In general this is very uniqe case that real Neidan tradition went out of China. Probably one might arguing here that I want to promote or sell anything here but I will disagree then with this person. I don't sell anything and not even thinking about this. As for WuLiuPai I can say that this is very uniqe school and I doubt that anything else of this sort will go out of China soon. Normally chinese daosits do not accept foreingers and that D. Artemyev was accepted as a student was a case of Destiny.

I am not instructor and can not give precise answer to this question but as far as I got it everyone begins from the very beginning in Neidan. It does not matter how a person is gifted spiritually. It's because all aspects should be worked out from the very beginning - at the beginning we need to build (cleanse) channels for pre-heaven energy. How many people already have it? It may take less time for preparation for a gifted person but there are no shortcuts concerning methods.

No, I think he is very busy now to answer your questions. Do you know how many people ask him questions every day at this time? And yes, the best way to clear any doubts is to travel to Saint Petersburg and take classes and seminars. That's what I did actually. But if one can't travel I could recommend to take online classes on Daogong which is quite important part of all other systems that are taught in DaoDe center. One will need approx. 1-2 years to work out Daogong before practising Neidan. Also shengong for kidneys is very good to do along with Daogong. I believe that Daogong would be very beneficial for everyone whatever he/she practices else. It helps to bring balance and stability, and also vitality. There are some exercises from WLP in Daogong and it has alchemical foundation in it and it's not just qigong. So I want to say that it's better to ask questions when you PRACTICE it and then teacher will answer questions as well as will be able to correct energetic imbalances in a student and give advises regarding practical aspects of a system . That' the best way of clearing doubts that one might have regarding any spiritual system. (Neidan is the best one for westerners I believe ) If one is very interested in it i would recommend either to take online classes or attend a seminar on Daogong, build the foundation in Daogong and then when one feels changes it would be much easier to grasp alchemical exercises. WuLiuPai system is not given to people who can not attend intensive seminars that are held every 3-6 months. Otherwise it won't work properly and can be dangerous for a student. But YuXianPai school is more open and there are no that much strict requirements. WuLiuPai is based on "heart to heart" transmission from the very beginning that's not the case in the beginning of YXP system. There is more emphasis on "clearing the heart" In YXP in the beginning. May be I wrong in something for I dont know well all aspects of both schools but that's what I heard myself from instructors in Russia. So, it is worth trying Daogong plus YXP's alchemical "cleansing " exercises and give it a try to do your best for 1-2 years in order to be able to estimate how it works for you. There are no any other ways to clear any doubts regarding this system Sorry if I am not correct in my English grammar. With the best regards

He met not only a goat and a few supernatural creatures (Immortal I believe) descended to teach him as well. So you think they were mortal? Any proof of that ?

No, you are wrong here. I have read some traditional Daoist texts and Baopuzi is one of them. You can read there how Huangdi, who is credited to be the founder of Daoism, got the Teaching and who had transmitted this Teaching to him

Also I wonder whether you mixed it with another practices? DON'T MIX IT with any other things. It could be a reason of getting ill

Anyway there are common things for both schools. If anyone is really interested in it I would recommend to go to Canada and practice it with Michael. The progress will be much faster if you want to work it out Even if you are ill don't give it up. It will help to recover. Use medicine mushrooms for faster recovery

Really? Is your teacher already Immortal? I have this irony because I believe (and this is traditional notion) that all authentic methods come from Immortals but not from mortal human beings who make up whatever they like and want to believe to. This is the way how traditional methods become trendy

Oh, some people always love to look for something new. Searching for the sake of searching. They call it spiritual search. Every month they get new DVD, new training, new teacher, new wandering

Well, there is a secret which makes all difference between qigong and neidan. Even Daogong could be either qigong or neidan depending on the approach how one does it. The matter is not in exercise for itself but in a few other factors. Also there is some difference whether you do it on your own or in the group with teacher. But anyway what you talk here is not about WuLiupai. WLP is something special and have different approach even comparing with YXP. For example, I could say that in WLP's Jiuyangshengong there are almost NO EXERCISES (in simplified version) at all but it works different way from qigong? Why is so? human mind can not understand it because it got used to do something - plenty of movements, asanas, breath, visualizations and so on... but when it is said not to do anything people can not understand it. Taoist Texts asks plenty of questions about this...

Neidan is not religion at all. When was it said that it is the most beneficial? We said that neidan (neigong) is the only real internal work in Daoism. There are a few other spiritual internal systems in Asia. But far not all of them are the same as Neidan. This difference was described in Daoist scriptures and instructors of the Dao De center rely on strict Daoist approach in training process. Who does not like it is free to go another way. It is strange to hear something about ego here