Antares

I totally agree with your opinion. It seems to be easy to understand but to me it seems that many people can't realize this simple notion of that fact that there is only one real way to genuine health, longevity and spirituality which is strict traditional approach whether it is neidan or neigong if we talk about Daoism. Some people want to find shortcuts by practicing suspicious and corrupted methods which they take from different sources. I used to do it myself but now I have been practicing some traditional methods for some period of time and I can see clear now how I was stupid and blind before and how much harm I did to myself practicing wrong methods. It was waste of time, money and life energy! Traditional approach is something very special and can not be compared to methods like qigong especially with self made or recently invented methods. The difference is like Heaven and Earth. It is very stupid to practice anything without CONSTANT supervision of the knowledgeable teacher in legit traditional lineage. Even experienced students get some deviations sometime. But Qigong for itself is recent invention and can not be the legit way to superb health and real enlightenment because it does not nourish Ming which is the foundation of real daoist approach to longevity and enlightenment. Another point that it is not easy to find nowadays and people want to substitute it with something else. I myself was in these shoes and I practiced methods from books and I trained with suspicious teachers, and only now I understand how i was wrong with that approach

Nice trolling. Continue, please. I agree with Opendao that NOT EVERYONE who is practicing Neidan is MASTER.

Taoist Texts Rejuvenation is only side-effect of the correct practice, but is not the goal. Nobody selling anything here. Not everyone who is practicing neidan looks young because of the several reasons: age, history of illnesses, level of the practice and personal karmic abilities to practice right i.e. Destiny. I would say that Destiny is the most important thing here. Neidan is not for everyone but for those who is destined for it. Destiny belongs to energetic body and Neidan is based on the way different approach than qigong. This is wrong in general to think about rejuvenation practicing Neidan. But, of course, all people can benefit from Neidan, but not everyone gets same results. Also it is wrong to think about expenses and money paid for the classes . If you are destined for it you will find the way, if you are not you will find the reason why not. As simple as that

I guess what such sort of people practice but I wont elaborate on it. Only I want to add is that what is called transmission is very very important in any "internal work". I do not believe that safe and potent methods really exist and that they provide "transmissions" through books or DVD's. There are so many subtle details in internal practices and if one does not get constant corrections it will cause deviations. I don't even talk about wrong techniques that are spread widely

Actually I forgot to mention that I used to practice some form of spontaneous qigong before , and would say that qigong is somewhat similar but in fact it is not the same as WuLiu' system is much more elaborated and more subtle in its work.

WuLiuPai system along with Daogong are the most potent systems that I have ever tried. I used to practice a few sorts of yoga mostly and Flying Phoenix Qigong for a few months(from DVDs). Well, WuliuPai system a way different thing from anything I have only seen in books and on video. The distinction is in that that it works with pre-heaven (pre- celestial) qi and the practice for itself is not similar to any qigong system that I have stumbled upon before. It gives very interesting sort of feeling of subtle balance especially after having practiced it in a group. The best term in which I can only describe it is like some invisible light vibrating inside and outside of me. PURE GOLD

Personally for me there seems to be a way too much "asanas" (forms) in Sun-Do. But it does not mean it gives the same results as it does in Neidan. The question is whether it is reverse or onward perfection of a practitioner

Here nothing is said about bringing attention to the LDT and forming DT by breath, but is said that this happens spontaneously. Best regards

I had a chance to talk to the main korean teacher of Kouk Sun Do (not Sun Do) and he said that this system is 9000 years old and has its origin in Korea. So he does not consider this system as Daoist. Sun Do is simplified american version of the Korean Kouk Sun Do. No, this is not IMHO. I personally familar with methods of 2 Daoist schools and there are nothing akin to KSD's methods in both of them. Also we have people who are students of a few other Chinese Daosit schools and there are no breath methods akin to KSD' methods. All these methods with putting attention on the LDT with breath come from qigong and yoga but has no relation to Neidan. Latter is based on other principles and methods differ noticeably from KSD. The reason is that breath relates to the postcelestial and it can't affect precelestial. Building the foundation in Neidan is based on work with precelestial qi which in its turn affects postcelestial but not the other way around. Best regards

I am afraid there is no such thing as focusing breath and attention on the lower dan tien in Daoism. Kouk Sun Do is purely Korean system and has no any relation to the authentic Daoism. Building the foundation in traditional Chinese schools means work with precelestial qi in the very beginning, but breath work with attention on LDT has no any relation to these methods

Insomnia can be caused by incorrect practice. One out of the possible reasons is that energy goes upward if one does breath exercises on the MCO circulation directing attention up and down. Energy can be stuck in the head. In general this is incorrect practice. I would stop doing this if you do it

In what text does he advise to concentrate on lower abdomen, can you quote it? What about preparatory methods before trying to fuse kan and li, where are they described? You write about "root of wuwei" but in order to realize wu wei there are preparatory methods that are very important and can not be skipped.

There is only one formula that can help in such the case - stop to practice anything taking methods from books. Mantek Chia seems to be knowledgeable teacher but in fact he is not. He has no clue about neidan and his theories are his fantasies only. It is impossible to fuse Kan and Li by the way he describes in his books. Just because this is qigong of bad qualilty that can be harmful for health.

Hello. It sems to me that you mix different types of qigong trying to balance you mind and body. You start practicing something and then changing for something else. This is typical mistake among beginners. At first I would advise you to cease practicing on your own without knowledgeable teacher. You should choose one teacher and stick to him for a few years. Also there is another common problem for people who want to balance mind and body, almost every method is based on postheaven chi and this is just impossible to get true balance practicing such methods. I am not sure about Bak Fu Pai methods. Nevertheless there are a few good qigong sets that can bring a person to some balance but they I very rare I believe. I am not telling anything against FP sets but I would advise to train in person with teacher who can see your energy and can give you personal recommendations concerning your practice

Ha-ha. You are going to "baby-sit" ordained daoist. You make me full of laughter. It does not matter how he says it but the matter is what he says.

Yes, I have some thoughts on this. This is new agey stuff. That'all for now

Can you elaborate who teaches to flex the anus as daoist method?

Only early Chan' Buddhism was compatible with Daoism. After 6th patriarch Chan' was corrupted. So I would say that modern Chan' (Zen) hasn't preserved methods of original Chan'. As for Buddhism it is very hard to say what Buddha practiced excatly. There were internal and external teachings. I really doubt that Theravada preserved original internal methods of the path of perfection. Quiet sitting (mind perfection) was not as much harmful for people in ancient India as it is now for the western people. It is not practiced in authentic Daoism in the beginning and it is only one out of the preparations methods for the quieting the heart and not the method for itself. People who teach it as "method" do not understand what they teach. Moreover it can be very harmful if it is done for a long time. Daoist initial methods have a lot of practices which are done in motion. Sitting begets Yin, motion begets Yan. Let's have a look what daoist Liu Yiming wrote about daoists methods of cultivation: http://www.goldenelixir.com/jindan/cultivating_the_tao_19.html Buddha was the person who had Superior Virtue. Only people of Superior Virtue can practice non-doing for the perfection. All other people need method for the cultivation. Initial methods in Daoist Neidan are called "Laying the foundation". It has nothing to do with sitting meditations.

Once agian I will ask you about school and texts they reffer to. Here is the list of the authentic Taoist schools. http://thetaobums.com/topic/32663-taoist-lists-or-history/ Also which traditional text describes methods when yin spirit are sent through the top of the head?

Do not expect to much. Normally term "youthfulness" concerns the internal energy state of a person but not necessarily his or her appearance. I heard only that high level masters can return their age back but they have another goals and they rather concern about spirit than about a body

Few years ago I wanted to attend one of his seminars and I was answered that the cost was 3500$ for about 7 days seminar. Plus tickets expenses to China as he normally teaches in China. If you have spare 3500 $ for each seminar with WL then I do not mind. You can do whatever you like actually But also I am concerned about the practice that he teaches. As far as I know he teaches dazuo in the very beginning and thus this condradicts Taoist tradition. Also I heard from WLP people who asked about him in China and the reply was that WL is qigong teacher and he does not teach Neidan. There are a lot of qigong teachers worldwide, and I personally have nothing against them but it' what I myself am not interested in. Regarding his book, this is novel akin to C.Castaneda books about his studying with Don Juan Matus. I do not accept such teachings seriously but you can have another opinion. I would prefer to learn traditional teaching which are described by traditional texts within traditional schools. Can you give the link to the texts which WL is reffering to? Let' begin from this issue at first

Who is Jim? WHat about reading traditional texts ? Who is Wang Liping charging thousands of $$$?

Of course, they can give answer regarding Kan and Li. But my point was that it is no point to discuss it purely from theoretical interest. I say just find knowlegable teacher in qigong, then practice neidan or good neikung for a few years and then we can talk about it. Theoretically I could give answer but I see no point to discuss Kan and Li in this case

It is no point to discuss about Kan and Li. What you really need is TEACHER.

I did not get your question. You do nit have Xing yet. I do not know it exactly but I suppose that Xing is pre heaven "energy" mingled with one's soul i.e. this is transformed shen and not "postheaven" one that all people have. Also they call Xing some mind cultivation methods but they say about "Xing cultivation". This is such practices as meditations. But if you do not have the fulness of Ming it would be not efficienet. WLP people say that ancient method of Ming is lost almost in all schools and nowadays they teach people how to work with heart nature. This is wrong approach according to Taoist tradition. http://all-dao.com/xing-problems.html Also you can read here http://all-dao.com/immortality-achievements.html Also I gave the link to the theory disclosed by Liuyiming. Read it once again please. There were some schools in the past which started from Xing in the beginning. But actually all of them began from Ming and Xing but with different emphasis in the practice. Shortly person can not work with mind if he or she does not have enough innate body energy and if she or he has sicknesses. Ming methods heal deseases and balance body and mind. How are you going to meditate without it? It only will cause deviations. In YuXian school there are initial methods of refining organs according with WuXin theory. It effects pre heaven channels and regulates post heaven but not the other way around. This is the ancient Tao approach and ancient wisdom. But in the beginning there is need to work with Xin. This is diff. qigong sets which are aimed to help to prepare person to the alchemy.