Antares

Anxiety is coming from yin/yang imbalance. There are many reasons for that: diet, way of life, habits, WRONG "energy methods", mixture of [wrong] methods, sex, previous illnesses, natal and personal karma, and bad structure of a body and spinal column. Many people have problems with latter one and you have to find good therapist who can check it up and do corrections. As well as it was good advice to practice ONE method of qigong but it must be traditional qigong within authentic lineage of masters. Avoid "yoga" like exercises, breath methods and so on until you find good teacher. Yoga methods were designed for the Indian way of life and they practiced hatha yoga in the beginning before doing any meditations (advaita) methods. Also avoid vigorous qigong methods akin to Iron Shirt. Even meditation methods can be very harmful until you have balanced your energy and body structure. I would advise to find good orthopedist who can see your energy and who could improve qi flow in your channels and give you exercises personally for you, for your body and you would work with it. Then you could do some soft qigong to work out your energy body in order to remove all blockages and improve qi flow and soften your anxiety issue . Also avoid standing "tree" practice until you have opened up energy channels and have removed your biggest blockages. Also it is crucial to find right method of practice. It could be any traditional yangshengong method which would balance your energy body from INSIDE. Many problems are coming when people are trying to fix their minds by their own minds. It is just impossible. Be safe and happy and avoid fake "energy methods".

This is what I meant. I am not referring to benefits from chi kung. I am referring to the actual sensations going on during the practice. In other words, the current condition of the nervous system determines what kind of experiences one will have during the practice of chi kung. During an experimental course with a well know spiritual master methods were used which temporarily somehow bypassed or temporarily got thru the blocks of stress in the nervous system and I went into an Awakened state of higher consciousness for awhile. But this same powerful method of Patanjali's Yoga Sutras never again worked even after more than 30 yrs of daily practice. This is what I am talking about actually. There are few factors: 1. Own karma 2. Method - qigong? or neidan? or neikung? there are different mechanics - the way how work/gong eliminates blockages and what type of energy is cultivated 3. Transmission is must if one is looking for spirituality. It will be faster progress and more benefits when working with authentic master and within the group of people. If you are talking about how qigong works then yes it depends on each person but everything mentioned above is still applicable to any qigong. If one does it on his/her own without transmission it will take more time to gain benefits out of it. And can cause deviations. I do not say that FPCK can cause it, I do not know, may be it is very safe system but many other qigong systems can lead to subtle deviations because it works with postnatal qi and person will nourish "yin shen". This is difficult to say what is real benefit or what someone only considering as benefits. Not all alternative states of mind are good and only enlightened master can esteem ones achievements. I hope that FP is vey safe system. It soothes the energy and very soft in work, good for stress relief. But this is one positive side and there could be some negative side effects. Authentic scriptures say avoid working with postnatal cultivation as it is danger for spirituality. According to Taoist scriptures prenatal qi should move postnatal qi. Not the other way around. Qigong can be useful as preparatory step and there is time when it must be stopped. That' what people said to me and what is said in scriptures. I wanted to say that it does matter which energies one activates within oneself. I think benefits depend on the level of yuan qi (original prenatal qi) one has and the state of nervous system depends on it. Of course if one has a lot of yuan qi then any other qigong will work more efficiently but then we coming back to the points I listed above. The more experience one has in any other taoist (yogic) system the more benefits that person will get from qigong. But here is the question what is most important. Yuan qi! I personally believe that FPCK can be very good to practice together with any authentic taoist (yogic) system when one already has the level in spirituality. If you have a look at the history of this system you will see that it was invented by Taoist master when he already was high level in other Taoist cultivation systems. As for benefits for those who do qigong only I don't know for everyone, some people say it gives some benefits but personally for me it is difficult to esteem exactly what it gives. But who knows? Some qigong can give nice feelings and odd experience because of the depletion of original qi. Another systems nourish it. Sometime people just had some energy blockages and even qigong can help to eliminate it and they feel much better. there are many reasons for different experiences. If someone had more the less good conditions of the postnatal qi meridians then benefits will be less tangible but it will require more time for spiritual benefits. But then we coming back to the question of original qi cultivation. I am sure it must follow by qigong cultivation and qigong could be good addition to the original qi cultivation. The work/gong must be done ON TWO LEVELS.

Recently I had a chance to talk to a few people who have transmissions within authentic sects in China. I was said that there are 2 ways of "pre heaven" cultivation: Neidan and Yangshengong. First one is based purely on transmission and I only know what they start from - it is some sort of yangshengong practice which expel stagnant qi and nourishes yuan qi, and balances yin and yan in the whole body. This is preparation. After that they do alchemical practice which work with each organ step by step nourishing "life" - yuan jing. This corresponds with wu-xin theory. Transmission is must have for this otherwise there is some sort of Divine retribution they say. It has nothing to do with lucid dreaming or astral projections and it is not dao yin. At this time here and there one can find dao yin or yangshengong at the best. The latter can nourish yuan qi a bit but it is limited in its benefits and it is to improve health and for longevity. Dao yin is used to open postheaven channels, smooth out energy flow and stretch limbs, improve body structure. It is akin to calisthenics. So you should not expect getting the same results from dao yin as you would get from "pre heaven" cultivation. In latter one health and longevity are not the goal but "side effect" of the practice which is practiced for spiritual goals. In this practice they do not use breath, visualizations, dao yin, thoughts and personal consciousness at all as method. I will be able to tell more later on.

The main doctrines of the Taoists cultivation: The central aim in Taoism is to follow the "Tao", a word which roughly translates as "The Way". Taoists believe in following life in its natural flow, what they refer to as an "effortless action". Taoists regard Tao and De (power, virtue, integrity) as the general principles of their beliefs and behavior. They should not only cultivate Tao but also accumulate De. Therefore, both Tao and De serve as the basis of Taoist doctrines. Derived from the foundation of Tao and De are a whole set of principles, including non-action, non-passion and non-desire, non-struggle, and the pursuit of simplicity and truth. Purity and Tranquility Purity and tranquility, corresponding to turbidity and movement, is the standard of behavior for Taoists. Purity is the source of turbidity while movement is the root of tranquility. This reciprocal relationship is a full manifestation of the purity and tranquility in Tao. As the origin of the universe, Tao governs the development of all creations by its nature of purity and tranquility. Taoists never ask for reward or gain. They are detached from desire for anything. If the human society is governed in the spirit of purity and tranquility, the world will achieve the status of harmony and the humans life will get ascended. "Bullying is defined as overpowering the feeble. Cheating is defined as playing tricks on others. Scheming is defined as underhanded plotting. According to Taoism, plotting to harm people is a big crime and plotting to harm loyal subjects is an even worse crime. Even if schemers manage to have their way, the divinities are wise and the schemers will be duly punishe" "Both Buddhism & Taoism hold scripture, rules & discipline as their predominant principles. It is therefore essential for monks and Taoist priests to learn scriptures and abide by religious laws and rules. this departments supervises their conduct, sets high demands on them and rewards and punishes accordingly."

Good answer. There is another example: if someone who has not done any exercises and had bad diet starts doing some exercises and maintain proper diet then he/she will feel great improvements after sometime but people who are in good conditions will not feel much benefits out of it. But this is not all the way correct example as this is qigong and what we actually should consider as GOOD results in this case? That' what I actually wanted to clear out here before but no one could answer my questions rather than it is "qigong for health". If someone is already in good healthy conditions what are the benefits he/she should expect? Even better health? I felt better mood and better sleep, more clear mind and nothing more. No aliens, no ghosts no "astral projections". As I said earlier few times qigong is limited for itself. This is like voltage. You can not get more than 220 volts if the network has been designed for 220 volts. That' the actual difference between "post heaven" and "pre heaven" systems. That makes all difference. Even if it is said that a system has "celestial nature" or "heavens source". That could be "post heaven" reality. That' why traditional taoist scriptures stress the difference between post heaven and pre heaven ways of cultivation. It' very crucial. If someone teaches "astral projections" and meet aliens and other creatures you can be sure it is purely not traditional system in taoist "sense" but qigong which is only corrupt branch of the Tradition. That' why transmission from authentic teacher is so crucial here. You can try one qigong or another but all of them are limited. Period. Yes, it can give good results as better health or more clear mind or samadhi experience but it never will be the same as achievements in any traditional taoist system and will require more time and efforts for cultivations. These systems have different mechanics. So this is incorrect saying that all systems are the same and it depends on each person only solely. You can not get 440 volts from 220 volts network

I provided a few very credible facts. Your problem you are not able to see it. I am not going to repeat it again as I do not care about such people who are not able to separate wheat from the chaff. You do not understand that school with the name Quan zhen dao pai can not exist even theoretically. This is up to you what to believe to. I have reserched on this subj for few years at least and it is not easy to convience me emotionally. Probably I will be banned again for these words but I do not care honestly. I do not see a reason to stay here as here not much people who are interested in authentic Tradition. Here if you do not pay 4000$ to fat man for tricks they will call you "pillow boy" and then put "like it" on the post where they say that I am banned. No, I am just not fool. I do research before I pay. I have paid enough in my life. You do not understand that "swelling of the head" is side effect in qigong practice and this is what Vitalii and his instructors teach people as signs of success. Good luck in your search man. p.s. btw you have no any evidence where I lied.

Also I just wonder whether anyone is going to attend Vitalii' retreat? Is it allowed to ask it here?

I can not respond in this thread anymore otherwise I will be banned. If you want PM me I can give you more information if you need it. But I can not promise. If you do not respect me I won't reply to you. This thread should be closed as no one discusses Quanzhendao' practices here anyway

Vitalii writes: "Russian followers of Wuliupai created a thread on their Russian forum, where they called on the other members of their school to come to this forum to insult my posts. " I read that forum sometime and I have not seen anything there of what V. states in the quote above. This is crude lie and personal insult of other people. May be V. can provide a link for what he states? The comicality of this discussion is that Vitalii has no any lineage in Taoism and thus his opinion is based on his personal interpretations of Taoism and when people point out where he is wrong he does not answer to this and grandstands. Personally for me this insult of Taoist tradition and other people who are really interested in Taoism. When people bring evidences where he is wrong moderators call it personal attack but V. is not able to prove any of his statements regarding his qualification. With such approach this is complete nonsense. I just want to say that people should respect each other and argue their statements. Especially those people who pretend to be teachers. I have no any relation to Wuluipai. Just my opinion.

You are wasting your time talking to this person. Do not waste your time!

I only wanted to help people to avoid getting problems in such schools as Vitaly teaches that "swelling of the head" during the practice in his school is normal. I have link for these words of him. At least people have right to know more about such issues. Have a look on what he offers here. This is not harassment from my side. But if moderation against it I really must stop here. No problem and please no stress.

Yes I am not talking to him anymore. In this thread he called me liar and this is personal insult. And breaks the rule of this forum.

So what you want for the last time? Who really needs it and why? I can prove what I said if someone needs it but when I do it you say I continue to attack Vitaly. Not fair. He already agreed with what I said so what' problem? What you want to know? Do you need it?

As I said I can prove everything what I said about this "honest" teacher. So to call somebody, who can prove his words, liar is LIE and moderation should consider this fact actually. I did not call this person liar for example and nothing personal at all but he called me liar few times. So...? I can prove very easily for example his lie about his taichi lineage but he can not prove his words about his lineage. Moderation, hello!

Moderator will be unhappy. And V. will say that the name of school was changed for a reason. At least he does not deny that he called it "Zhen Dao Qigong" but not "Zhen Dao Pai". So no point for posting it. Also I have screenshot where he states that Quan Zhen Dao Pai is valid name in Chinese but this is wrong name for itself. It' impossible in Chinese for the taoist school. Also I have screenshot from his forum where he states that taoist immortal was coming to Ukraine for 7 years to teach Vitaly Neidan. Just think about this! Not Vitaly was coming to China but immortal did come to Vitaly. Do I need to prove anything else? If you want PM me I will give you links but it is in Russian.

No, that' enough, Mal

I can prove my statements that this is not lie from my side. I can post here the print of the screen from his old web-site where he called his school as "Zhen Dao Qigong". And that there was not proper name in Chinese and so on. I can post here many of these proofs and I could give other links but it will be offtopic, yes?

Okey. I will not reply to Vitaly's post. I will ask moderators here. Many people asked V. for the proof of his lineage for years. I myself was considering his "school" few years ago. It took me time to read his web-forum, talk to people about him and so on. So it took time from my life. Even now I have to spend my time for him. Why am I doing this? Why I do not hold my tongue on him? The answer is above in my previous post. What's next? Vitaly reported on my posts where I clearly explained where he is wrong but he continues to call me liar. Where I lied about him? All I said I can prove. There are many other evidences I mentioned. If I report to mods about his lie on me what's next? Will be he banned? Will he stop to fool people? But I can just hold my tongue and this is probably best option in this case. May be yes but may be not. He states that he practices Quanzhen meditations and teach others for money but just have a look on his life style. Posting on the web almost every day and call people liars when they say truth, speculate on taoism, arguing and so on. The only question what he can teach others? Is it relevant to the thread or not? And I stop here definitely. i will not reply anymore on V. posts as it takes my time

And BTW this is quite relative to the subject. http://taotemple.org/2012/11/01/four-pillars-sixteen-fortitudes-right-lifestyle/#practice-time But someone does not have enough recognition for that. The Fortitudes of Right Effort and Right Attitude The third and fourth Fortitudes are the Fortitude of Right Effort and the Fortitude of Right Attitude – and while we must distinguish one from the other, these Fortitudes go hand-in-hand, like a ladder you climb to keep moving upward. If your attitude is Right, you can apply Right Effort to your life and practice, but you will need to make an internaleffort that is Right in order to produce the Right Attitude, you see. Now, I do not mean “right” by some manufactured religious code or social standard, no. I mean that your Effort and Attitude must be situated in the Path of Truth and to that aim exclusively. This requires gradual development for sure, and will change as you grow, but it is relevant to note the importance of steering your focus toward the Center and its Light as much as possible, for you have a great mountain to climb; there is no point loitering about in fruitless ventures that may well bury you under an avalanche if you’re not careful. For example, blindly (or knowingly)contributing to the corrupt systems of the world that ultimately bring ill health and disservice to yourself, your fellow humans and to the Earth, is not a product of Right Effort. The willful participation in such systems under the flimsy justification that you need to do so in order to live or that you have “no choice” is not a product of Right Attitude. Such issues are a matter for deeper consideration – your Life may depend on it, as your karma and your success hang in the balance!

Moderator: Then move on. If you wish to continue to debate validity, create another thread. I feel that continuing this debate in this thread would be harassment. Well, I would stop but Vitaly applied to me and I only replied to his posts. As for creating new thread for these debates I personally do not see the point for that as this thread has no any concern about authentic teaching of Quanzhen sect. I only post here in order to express my opinion that it's nonsense to discuss such issues on the forum when there is NO REAL KNOWLEDGE about taosim and people do not really discuss taoism but their interpretations of authentic taoism and thus it makes no any sense to stay on the subject. Vitaly has no any concern to discuss Quanzhen and hi has his personal goal here. So any further discussion will make no sense if Vitaly has no any relation to Quanzhen sect - this is what he states here that he has. But you are right, I already said enough.

I have read your web-forum few years ago, I spoke a lot to one of your students, I read many of your posts on your forum and it is obviously that you are fake neidan teacher who decieves people for the sake of personal enrichment. There are so many evidences against you that I can not hold my tongue when I can see here how you crave money. Russian web and money were not enough for you and you came here for the same reason. Even exercises in your qigong have the same names as in qigong which instructors' workshop you attended. This is not lie as you always repeat. I read Rusian web last years and I know your strory very very well. what we can see here that only your lie about your teacher in neidan and in taichi. if I post here the photo of your "teacher' teacher" with all students he taught taichi would you be able to point out who is Lu Shi Yan on that photo? no any proof at all and bla bla bla as many years in Russian web Diluted qigong with visualizations, zhan zhuan and park style taichi with no lineage. why should i attend such a funny seminar and pay you?good joke!

Vitaly, I have never attended their seminars only because I live faraway and have no funds for travellenig faraway. But everyone who practice well can meet their teachers and try out their methods. With you problem is that it is not possible to see your teacher bc he exists in your imagination and I hardly believe you can distinguish your fancies and reality. BTW right time schedule is not only the concern in taoism but the virtue as well - do not fool and do not harm others.

Because this is fake self made school. In the beginning he taught qigong. But then suddenly his school turned to be Neidan school after he stumbled upon taoist immortal in a Ukranian park when was doing taichi. And he had no even proper name of it in Chinese and there were only 2 words in the name of the school. Then people said to him there must be 3 characters and he added third one. Also ask him about his "taichi" lineage. He can not prove his taichi lineage as well and it is easy to check where he lies.

Vitaly, I have no goal arguing with you. It is no of any avail. This questions were asked to you many times for many years in Russian web and you did not answer them. You just have nothing to say regarding zhendao and began to accuse me bc I do not speak Chinese. What gives you a right for that? I do not hold funny seminars and do not decieve people concerning spirituality and I must not speak Chinese. You have learnt Chinese for few years and you think it gives you rigth to mislead people teaching them doubtful qigong as Neidan? Such the joke! I have no any desire to talk to you any longer as it would be waste of time

How did come to this great conclusion? There is no such name of school IN CHINESE. Not even in English. Some people so trustful and they are too lazy to do proper research. Maximum they can google and then begin arguing. This is "normal" for the West this time. There are many new age schools. Hundreds. As for Vitaly just watch where he takes information: books in English and Russian, qigong seminars, internet, mixing things up and then holding retreats. Such the joke, Dragon. But I do not mind, some people need to meet somebody like that to get experience. In order to realize what is true somebody needs to know what is false first.