Antares

Liu- Yiming said it?

Yes, this is the most difficult part of the entire alchemical process - one must hold the virtuous lifestyle preventing the leakages. And of course,

Do you practice it? How do you understand it? How to produce the pill?

Well, only if these people can explain what is the pill in both traditions then it makes sense, otherwise it is just idle talking

But we are in "Daosit discussion" section of TDB. Not sure if you are aware of it. So, if I am wrong then just try to point out where exatly, and which part of you dying at which stage of real Alchemy. I have some experience of this sort but it was some Ego produced feeling of "dying" and I think it was some entity leaving my energy field. In such a case they can produce fear that this you who is dying and losing control.

Yeah, it is like here the guy has ingested the bottle of Elixir and now ready to flow

The documents that approve the fact that Taiji was invented by ZSF were found. Please watch this: And as one of the commentator states there: Also there is Sanfeng Pai school in Wudang and I don't think they just made up the history of the school. Also there are some records that ZSF trained in Shaolin where he learned something there. So I agree with the statement that "Wudang and Shaolin are basically sinks, where all the martial arts from around china flow into and come by teaching of wandering taoists or monks back out again into the people."

What you think about this concept? (taken from The inner teachings of Taoism. Chang Po-Tuan commentary by -- Cleary Thomas )

A few days I spoke to a man who thinks he does neidan and he stated the same westernized BS that Dao accepts and includes everything and thus the shit and pill of immortality ARE THE SAME bcoz Dao does not judge and deny anything and one needs just to flow with everything, and this would be Wu-Wei. This is state and one needs to do a lot of work before can reach it. Doing precedes non doing.

Sorry, I don't think Western alchemy is still valid. That' just westernized BS. What should die is your ignorance and NEGATIVE QI we have. You are NOT ur negative thoughts and emotions. And yes there is smth that can purify you, but I am not specialist in medicine so I wont comment it in re to external alchemy. But I believe it should work similarly to internal alchemy bcoz it is def-ly based on the same principles. How you can purify urself from impurities? There must be smth that has pure Yang and pure Yin qualities and then making you more and more Yang. Yang is life and prosperity, Yin is death and degradation. But this is not DYING and ROTTING, it is the process of ascension and expansion. I would say it is purification ans refinement but not death and decay. So just awareness is not Alchemy. You can be Yin Spirit and have awareness but very shallow one. May be they have they own Alchemy I dunno but it is not we are looking for. We need to know precise steps and concepts what and how to do, how to prevent degradation and death

How does this statement correlate with ???

Yeah, rotting body under the ground seems to be the alchemy as well according to your conception

I mean that in this context people have a lot of negative Yin qi which corrupts the overall balance and post heaven state of heart takes over the pre heaven one. Also we lose Ming throughout the day to day life "process". This affects our state of heart- mind as well. Also we have blockages due to many sorts of psychosomatic traumas in the past All stated above is just my understanding of course

I don't do CMC form and to be honest there are not many people who do it correctly, so I agree.for the most people this is the external choreography. Forms of this kind are more intended for combat application, and although there is a certain internal work involved, one needs to be at a sufficiently high level of practice to perform this form correctly. At the moment, I am not interested in the combat aspect. I am not sure if they have internal work which precedes this martial form in Yang style Taiji - Quan. It is not the best option to begin with this CMC form but many teachers teach it from the start. If I do Yang Taiji I would do "Taiji Chih" which is linked to Yang Luchan directly. There is quite enough internal work to do before one wants to do martial form and benefit from it. But there are some more internal forms in Taiji which are good for energy and overall balance. Yang or Chen forms are taught for commercial purposes IMO.

Ok, lets stop it here. You don't see the difference between historical sources which include information from some authentic lineages, and someone's personal belief.

Sorry. I meant yangshengong of course. YSHG is about longevity. BTW I heard bad news about Stuart Alve Olson. I dont want to say anything bad about him, he was good researcher. I have one of his books on Yang Taiji. The methods he described there are very questionable from many perspectives. I just found them wrong even from YSHG perspective. So it depends on lineage

Why you think I have to believe everything that every modern researcher writes? This phrase "It is pretty clear in the whole context that Huang's epitaph was not meant as an accurate historical account" is just personal article author' belief. Again, some modern researcher PROPOSES THAT... As for the forms and methods it is better to find authentic lineage of Taiji-Quan and follow their instructions and methods and feel how it works for you. If you feel that Yang or Chen style is the best choice for you, go for it. But if you don't even believe that there were Taiji methods which preceded these Taiji - Quan styles, then you just close an opportunity for yourself to find smth real in Taiji. I personally used to practice some Yang and Chen styles methods and did not see real neidan methods in it. I regard them as good yangshen methods. But of course you have to find the most authentic ones. For example, I used to talk to a practitioner who traveled to China a few times and trained there in Chen family for years and I asked that person what they do for Ming restoration. The answer was "they do Wuji and ZZ postures to fulfill that goal". The same story was with another Chen practitioner whom I asked this question.

It is not at all necessary for a modern school rooted in ancient Wudang to be physically located there now. However, according to some historical records, ZSF went there and passed on his methods to the masters of that region. Where the representatives of those schools are now is not so important

@Vajra Fist Wudang is not whorehouse. There are still a few authentic Daoist lineages which have preserved ZSF methods of neidan. They are just not open to the public.

How you know that ??? Yeah, you don't trust the source of 17th century but you trust Stuart Alve Olson who had no any relation to the authentic ZSF or Shaolin lineage. I have some contact to the authentic Shaolin lineage and they have they own records in re to ZSF and also they have methods which are very close to what ZSF did and these methods linked to ZSF directly. You have to understand the history of Shaolin and what role it played in the past and why it was destroyed. During this period, there was a purge in China against masters, many of whom found refuge in Shaolin, so it was important for the Manchus to destroy this temple. Naturally, many historical records from the previous dynasty were destroyed or rewritten. Personally, I see no reason to distrust the research of Huang Zongxi, especially if there is confirmation of this source from the authentic lineage of the Shaolin Temple. Many modern researchers are either biased or lack connections with the lineages that have some relation to ZSF.

There are other records in re to ZSF and his connection to Shaolin and Wudang https://ctn.academy/blog/chen-taijiquan-an-internal-martial-art

Emotions are part of the ego. This is also related to what is called virtue - there are five positive and five negative qualities, there is Yin and Yang, depending on which predominates. But there are post-heaven and pre-heaven Yin and Yang, the question is how to transform one into the other and to produce One Yang

I disagree with your statement. There are some alchemical forms in taiji which Chen people did not know but you still can find them in Wudang nowadays. Chen never was alchemical. That means there was something that preceded Chen family Taiju Chuan. I believe that some authentic methods of Taiji "leaked" from Wudang and ignorant people invented smth similar but more like qigong variation of it. In fact it does not matter what was the name of original inventor but what important is that it produced high level results.

Very weird story to be honest. Last time I was in England 20 years ago but it does not mean I dont speak English NOW bcoze it was so long ago. Sounds like his Chinese never was good enough to learn from Chinese teacher. Well, the Chan teaching was very similar to Daoist one at that time. Later it became almost like religion. If he had been living in China for 2 years and never been back there -- it sounds like he got quite advanced level during that period of time. I would say that it is unlikely because for a person from the Western world, the stage of purifying the heart takes about five years. I remember that, for example, the Russian head of the Daoist branch of WLP wrote that he spent five years mainly practicing Qigong, and only then did they start teaching Neidan. This was both a test and a purification of the heart at the same time. It's hard to forget Chinese in such a long period of study