Antares

There is instructor in Canada btw. It's better to practice it in a group in my experience. But the doors are always open. I do not know what to offer you. May be Misha Lomax in the US? He seems to be cool guy IMHO But sitting meditations are prohibited in the beginning in our schools. It creates yin and might be harmful for the beginner. It might be one of the reasons for the anxiety issue btw. http://all-dao.com/dazuo-meditation.htmlhttp://all-dao.com/dazuo-meditation.html

This is only the chance to have chance © Carlos Castaneda. What is the chance of those people who practice reading the books of M. Chia? Let' think about this. We do "internal sounds", for instance, as well but it has certain goal in accordance with other practices, which have its own goal in its turn. But if you do them separately and without real knowledge why you do this and that you might do something in very wrong way what might give unpleasant side effects. In this case with anxiety it seems to me a head is not relaxed and 12 main channels are not opened up. Also it could be wrong motions for this goal. What are the chances to get "immortality" in this case? I did not mention other main channels. Does [bookish] qigong work with it? Who invented these exercises, what an author achieved himself? As for chances the teacher says that one can receive full transmission only when he/she has the fate. Here is no any guaranty at all. But one should practice diligently in order to succeed on the path to Dao. It means: right method, right people, right place, right approach and right intention. let' agree there are more chances to get all what is mentioned in the title of this thread. But when someone does not have even right initial method to empty a head from stagnant qi what are the chances?

i am not from Wu Lu Pai. I am more in YuXianPai (school of meeting immortals) at the moment. The patriarch of this school comes to Russia every year. Also all initiated taoist know the name of the Wu Lu Pai's patriarch and many of them saw him. People go to China every year. Every year they hold plenty of seminars and practice intensives which you can attend and try this methods. What' the problem? That you do not know the name of the Teacher? His name is secret for the public for the safety measures. Remember that authentic Taoism is half way "legal" in China and suffered a lot in the last century. Recently many of taoist sects had to go "underground " bc of Falun Dafa' politics issue. You might be expect that Taoist teacher will knock your door in order to prove his authentication. But they do not come to people to prove something to them, they come to the people who practice and who really dedicated to Taoism.

For what goal? There are LOADS of "fantastic" exercises disclosed in thousands of books. Today they feel "fantastic" after doing this and that and what about tomorrow, after tomorrow, week, month, year, 10, 100? How you will bw fantastic in 100 years, man? I click specially for you. Enjoy it

I can. But the question how it will help you. I am not here for the promotion of my school and teacher. I practice in a group where we have experienced instructor who constantly visit seminars which are held by the Russian branch of the quite famous Taoist School in China. We have methods of the 2 Taoists schools also we practice qigong in the beginning which is mix of the best exercises which they picked up in China for 20 years meeting various Chinese masters. Beware of fishy guys here on TTB who create fake schools. Do research before going to a seminar and paying money

I did not attack you or your opinion but only referred to your issue that you disclosed in this thread. It has nothing to do with people who have "cancer" or any other illness. This comparison is not correct. Only I mentioned that the reason is yin/yang imbalance and tried to explain where it was coming from. It seemed to me you sounded like you wanted to find some "energy exercise" which you can do on your own getting it from video or book. I tried to explain why it was wrong approach and that in this approach would not be much "spirituality" meaning that genuine "way" or "path" is not only "training" of [post-heaven] energy but [pre-heaven] spirit also. I believe that we inherit our spiritual achievements from previous lives and spirituality is determined by our own karma and our efforts in this life: correct way of life, right deeds, diet, regime, correct energy practice, correct thoughts, right teacher and tradition and so on. This is difficult way of overcoming obstacles on the way. And huge part of it as I personally believe is correct teaching which includes all of this. This is how it was from very beginning - every spiritual person of the past had a teacher plus good karma. But many people here believe that they can become spiritual by doing some fishy "energy practices". This is the way to delusion. Even having got a good teacher it is very difficult path. I personally trust only the traditional practices which are very difficult to find in general. No book or video can disclose this practices. It is almost impossible. Even if your are lucky to get it then it is difficult to work it out even with good teacher. You do not seem to understand it and I stressed it once again but not in order to insult you. All of these practices you are talking here are working with post-heaven qi and they can help a little to improve sensitivity of qi and can help to improve health but there are more chances to get sick [qigong syndrome] without proper supervision and if it is coming from a source without lineage . The only way to get "full range" of benefits is to practice neidan which works with pre - heaven qi. You can not get it without teacher. This is the law. All the best

Sorry, but you sound very philosophically. To me it sounds like "i am teacher, i am god, i am...". BS. Excuse my language. A good teacher CAN SEE your energy and your imbalances and can help to overcome it giving adjustments personally for each certain person. Also teacher transmits the energy. I just would not be able to get rid of a few of my blockages which I strove to overcome on my own for years but one experienced man (therapist) did it for a few sessions by transmitting energy and giving me exercises to work it out at home. How you are going to bypass all this on your own I can guess only. This is just example. If you can not overcome anxiety how you can reflect about your own way of spirituality? Even in order to benefit from Baduanjin one must open up channels by the mean of practice of initial level qigong to get feelings of qi flow otherwise all other stuff will be just calisthenics without any benefit. Nowadays there are dozens of baduaanjin and yijinjin on the market but who knows how to do it right?

NO NO NO. Avoid this stuff. There is no lineage and a lot of crap. You, guys, going nuts offering these crazy things to each other.

Thank you, GrandmasterP. I used to live in the UK and tried to find something "authentic" there. I did try "yoga", meditations, tantra, neikong, MA... then I realized it was waste of time and money. Now I have another understanding about all that stuff. Probably my opinion will sound negative here but it was my experience and it was part of the lessons I've got in my life. Most sad thing here is that you are right that there are many people who scam others and... themselves as well. So called teachers learn something "spiritual" somewhere in India or Taiwan at the best and then they teach others playing the role of a "guru". I remember i got anxiety issue when was doing breath methods from a tantra tradition which I learned in a local center. Also I got lungs problem by doing it. Instructor could not help me at all but she charged me every time when I was coming to classes. Then I mixed few methods from different traditions and wanted to succeed in my "spirituality". WRONG WRONG approach. Also I practiced from DVDs and books mixing up things. Sometime I could not fall asleep and was anxious without any reason. Only when I gave up doing all that stuff and got transmission in good lineage thing began to improve. Also I realized that beginner just is not able to do qigong right. Besides it is not easy to find good qigong teacher. Now I do very soft qigong and some alchemy method which are very soft and I believe that supervision of good instructor is MUST have almost for everyone. Also I was lucky to meet an excellent Siberian therapist who worked out my energy blockages. He is quite enlightened person and he said clearly that people do mistake trying to practice from video or books and that it is very much about ones personal karma to get benefit from any practice. He says that it is impossible to practice right when one has problem with spinal column what is very common. This can only increase a blockage of energy. Only enlightened person can teach right methods and it is very much about transmission " from heart to heart". No book can replace it. Only people who have good karma and spiritual experience from previous lives can benefit from video or book. Authentic qigong or neikong is very rare nowadays. I remember I had been practicing Iron Shirt for 2 years without any benefit and no one else benefited from it in that group and that instructor did not realize that his approach was wrong in the very beginning. He did not teach soft qigong in the beginning in order to smooth out energy and open qi channels in students. He always smiled and said that we did not practice good enough. I remember anxiety issue I got from that practice. He stated he was enlightened person and he charged good price. Unfortunately it is quite common thing nowadays. I believe it is crucial to practice in a group of people where there is real teacher within authentic lineage. Anxiety issue will not happen to anyone in this case. It would be a first sign of wrong practice or wrong approach.

Anxiety is coming from yin/yang imbalance. There are many reasons for that: diet, way of life, habits, WRONG "energy methods", mixture of [wrong] methods, sex, previous illnesses, natal and personal karma, and bad structure of a body and spinal column. Many people have problems with latter one and you have to find good therapist who can check it up and do corrections. As well as it was good advice to practice ONE method of qigong but it must be traditional qigong within authentic lineage of masters. Avoid "yoga" like exercises, breath methods and so on until you find good teacher. Yoga methods were designed for the Indian way of life and they practiced hatha yoga in the beginning before doing any meditations (advaita) methods. Also avoid vigorous qigong methods akin to Iron Shirt. Even meditation methods can be very harmful until you have balanced your energy and body structure. I would advise to find good orthopedist who can see your energy and who could improve qi flow in your channels and give you exercises personally for you, for your body and you would work with it. Then you could do some soft qigong to work out your energy body in order to remove all blockages and improve qi flow and soften your anxiety issue . Also avoid standing "tree" practice until you have opened up energy channels and have removed your biggest blockages. Also it is crucial to find right method of practice. It could be any traditional yangshengong method which would balance your energy body from INSIDE. Many problems are coming when people are trying to fix their minds by their own minds. It is just impossible. Be safe and happy and avoid fake "energy methods".

This is what I meant. I am not referring to benefits from chi kung. I am referring to the actual sensations going on during the practice. In other words, the current condition of the nervous system determines what kind of experiences one will have during the practice of chi kung. During an experimental course with a well know spiritual master methods were used which temporarily somehow bypassed or temporarily got thru the blocks of stress in the nervous system and I went into an Awakened state of higher consciousness for awhile. But this same powerful method of Patanjali's Yoga Sutras never again worked even after more than 30 yrs of daily practice. This is what I am talking about actually. There are few factors: 1. Own karma 2. Method - qigong? or neidan? or neikung? there are different mechanics - the way how work/gong eliminates blockages and what type of energy is cultivated 3. Transmission is must if one is looking for spirituality. It will be faster progress and more benefits when working with authentic master and within the group of people. If you are talking about how qigong works then yes it depends on each person but everything mentioned above is still applicable to any qigong. If one does it on his/her own without transmission it will take more time to gain benefits out of it. And can cause deviations. I do not say that FPCK can cause it, I do not know, may be it is very safe system but many other qigong systems can lead to subtle deviations because it works with postnatal qi and person will nourish "yin shen". This is difficult to say what is real benefit or what someone only considering as benefits. Not all alternative states of mind are good and only enlightened master can esteem ones achievements. I hope that FP is vey safe system. It soothes the energy and very soft in work, good for stress relief. But this is one positive side and there could be some negative side effects. Authentic scriptures say avoid working with postnatal cultivation as it is danger for spirituality. According to Taoist scriptures prenatal qi should move postnatal qi. Not the other way around. Qigong can be useful as preparatory step and there is time when it must be stopped. That' what people said to me and what is said in scriptures. I wanted to say that it does matter which energies one activates within oneself. I think benefits depend on the level of yuan qi (original prenatal qi) one has and the state of nervous system depends on it. Of course if one has a lot of yuan qi then any other qigong will work more efficiently but then we coming back to the points I listed above. The more experience one has in any other taoist (yogic) system the more benefits that person will get from qigong. But here is the question what is most important. Yuan qi! I personally believe that FPCK can be very good to practice together with any authentic taoist (yogic) system when one already has the level in spirituality. If you have a look at the history of this system you will see that it was invented by Taoist master when he already was high level in other Taoist cultivation systems. As for benefits for those who do qigong only I don't know for everyone, some people say it gives some benefits but personally for me it is difficult to esteem exactly what it gives. But who knows? Some qigong can give nice feelings and odd experience because of the depletion of original qi. Another systems nourish it. Sometime people just had some energy blockages and even qigong can help to eliminate it and they feel much better. there are many reasons for different experiences. If someone had more the less good conditions of the postnatal qi meridians then benefits will be less tangible but it will require more time for spiritual benefits. But then we coming back to the question of original qi cultivation. I am sure it must follow by qigong cultivation and qigong could be good addition to the original qi cultivation. The work/gong must be done ON TWO LEVELS.

Recently I had a chance to talk to a few people who have transmissions within authentic sects in China. I was said that there are 2 ways of "pre heaven" cultivation: Neidan and Yangshengong. First one is based purely on transmission and I only know what they start from - it is some sort of yangshengong practice which expel stagnant qi and nourishes yuan qi, and balances yin and yan in the whole body. This is preparation. After that they do alchemical practice which work with each organ step by step nourishing "life" - yuan jing. This corresponds with wu-xin theory. Transmission is must have for this otherwise there is some sort of Divine retribution they say. It has nothing to do with lucid dreaming or astral projections and it is not dao yin. At this time here and there one can find dao yin or yangshengong at the best. The latter can nourish yuan qi a bit but it is limited in its benefits and it is to improve health and for longevity. Dao yin is used to open postheaven channels, smooth out energy flow and stretch limbs, improve body structure. It is akin to calisthenics. So you should not expect getting the same results from dao yin as you would get from "pre heaven" cultivation. In latter one health and longevity are not the goal but "side effect" of the practice which is practiced for spiritual goals. In this practice they do not use breath, visualizations, dao yin, thoughts and personal consciousness at all as method. I will be able to tell more later on.

The main doctrines of the Taoists cultivation: The central aim in Taoism is to follow the "Tao", a word which roughly translates as "The Way". Taoists believe in following life in its natural flow, what they refer to as an "effortless action". Taoists regard Tao and De (power, virtue, integrity) as the general principles of their beliefs and behavior. They should not only cultivate Tao but also accumulate De. Therefore, both Tao and De serve as the basis of Taoist doctrines. Derived from the foundation of Tao and De are a whole set of principles, including non-action, non-passion and non-desire, non-struggle, and the pursuit of simplicity and truth. Purity and Tranquility Purity and tranquility, corresponding to turbidity and movement, is the standard of behavior for Taoists. Purity is the source of turbidity while movement is the root of tranquility. This reciprocal relationship is a full manifestation of the purity and tranquility in Tao. As the origin of the universe, Tao governs the development of all creations by its nature of purity and tranquility. Taoists never ask for reward or gain. They are detached from desire for anything. If the human society is governed in the spirit of purity and tranquility, the world will achieve the status of harmony and the humans life will get ascended. "Bullying is defined as overpowering the feeble. Cheating is defined as playing tricks on others. Scheming is defined as underhanded plotting. According to Taoism, plotting to harm people is a big crime and plotting to harm loyal subjects is an even worse crime. Even if schemers manage to have their way, the divinities are wise and the schemers will be duly punishe" "Both Buddhism & Taoism hold scripture, rules & discipline as their predominant principles. It is therefore essential for monks and Taoist priests to learn scriptures and abide by religious laws and rules. this departments supervises their conduct, sets high demands on them and rewards and punishes accordingly."

Good answer. There is another example: if someone who has not done any exercises and had bad diet starts doing some exercises and maintain proper diet then he/she will feel great improvements after sometime but people who are in good conditions will not feel much benefits out of it. But this is not all the way correct example as this is qigong and what we actually should consider as GOOD results in this case? That' what I actually wanted to clear out here before but no one could answer my questions rather than it is "qigong for health". If someone is already in good healthy conditions what are the benefits he/she should expect? Even better health? I felt better mood and better sleep, more clear mind and nothing more. No aliens, no ghosts no "astral projections". As I said earlier few times qigong is limited for itself. This is like voltage. You can not get more than 220 volts if the network has been designed for 220 volts. That' the actual difference between "post heaven" and "pre heaven" systems. That makes all difference. Even if it is said that a system has "celestial nature" or "heavens source". That could be "post heaven" reality. That' why traditional taoist scriptures stress the difference between post heaven and pre heaven ways of cultivation. It' very crucial. If someone teaches "astral projections" and meet aliens and other creatures you can be sure it is purely not traditional system in taoist "sense" but qigong which is only corrupt branch of the Tradition. That' why transmission from authentic teacher is so crucial here. You can try one qigong or another but all of them are limited. Period. Yes, it can give good results as better health or more clear mind or samadhi experience but it never will be the same as achievements in any traditional taoist system and will require more time and efforts for cultivations. These systems have different mechanics. So this is incorrect saying that all systems are the same and it depends on each person only solely. You can not get 440 volts from 220 volts network

I provided a few very credible facts. Your problem you are not able to see it. I am not going to repeat it again as I do not care about such people who are not able to separate wheat from the chaff. You do not understand that school with the name Quan zhen dao pai can not exist even theoretically. This is up to you what to believe to. I have reserched on this subj for few years at least and it is not easy to convience me emotionally. Probably I will be banned again for these words but I do not care honestly. I do not see a reason to stay here as here not much people who are interested in authentic Tradition. Here if you do not pay 4000$ to fat man for tricks they will call you "pillow boy" and then put "like it" on the post where they say that I am banned. No, I am just not fool. I do research before I pay. I have paid enough in my life. You do not understand that "swelling of the head" is side effect in qigong practice and this is what Vitalii and his instructors teach people as signs of success. Good luck in your search man. p.s. btw you have no any evidence where I lied.

Also I just wonder whether anyone is going to attend Vitalii' retreat? Is it allowed to ask it here?

I can not respond in this thread anymore otherwise I will be banned. If you want PM me I can give you more information if you need it. But I can not promise. If you do not respect me I won't reply to you. This thread should be closed as no one discusses Quanzhendao' practices here anyway

Vitalii writes: "Russian followers of Wuliupai created a thread on their Russian forum, where they called on the other members of their school to come to this forum to insult my posts. " I read that forum sometime and I have not seen anything there of what V. states in the quote above. This is crude lie and personal insult of other people. May be V. can provide a link for what he states? The comicality of this discussion is that Vitalii has no any lineage in Taoism and thus his opinion is based on his personal interpretations of Taoism and when people point out where he is wrong he does not answer to this and grandstands. Personally for me this insult of Taoist tradition and other people who are really interested in Taoism. When people bring evidences where he is wrong moderators call it personal attack but V. is not able to prove any of his statements regarding his qualification. With such approach this is complete nonsense. I just want to say that people should respect each other and argue their statements. Especially those people who pretend to be teachers. I have no any relation to Wuluipai. Just my opinion.

You are wasting your time talking to this person. Do not waste your time!

I only wanted to help people to avoid getting problems in such schools as Vitaly teaches that "swelling of the head" during the practice in his school is normal. I have link for these words of him. At least people have right to know more about such issues. Have a look on what he offers here. This is not harassment from my side. But if moderation against it I really must stop here. No problem and please no stress.

Yes I am not talking to him anymore. In this thread he called me liar and this is personal insult. And breaks the rule of this forum.

So what you want for the last time? Who really needs it and why? I can prove what I said if someone needs it but when I do it you say I continue to attack Vitaly. Not fair. He already agreed with what I said so what' problem? What you want to know? Do you need it?

As I said I can prove everything what I said about this "honest" teacher. So to call somebody, who can prove his words, liar is LIE and moderation should consider this fact actually. I did not call this person liar for example and nothing personal at all but he called me liar few times. So...? I can prove very easily for example his lie about his taichi lineage but he can not prove his words about his lineage. Moderation, hello!

Moderator will be unhappy. And V. will say that the name of school was changed for a reason. At least he does not deny that he called it "Zhen Dao Qigong" but not "Zhen Dao Pai". So no point for posting it. Also I have screenshot where he states that Quan Zhen Dao Pai is valid name in Chinese but this is wrong name for itself. It' impossible in Chinese for the taoist school. Also I have screenshot from his forum where he states that taoist immortal was coming to Ukraine for 7 years to teach Vitaly Neidan. Just think about this! Not Vitaly was coming to China but immortal did come to Vitaly. Do I need to prove anything else? If you want PM me I will give you links but it is in Russian.

No, that' enough, Mal