Antares

Qigong is not magic bullet. We discuss it in other thread. Alchemy is magic. And evem more important than diet. Watch this 118 years old man: This man did alchemy. Another example many yoga people who advise not to eat animal protein and exercise with asanas and pranayma. How long do they live maintaining such regimen with small protein intake and much carbohydrates; breath retentions, difficult asanas...? 60-80 years are normal for them. This man on video was eating much eggs every day and even started to smoke. Good advise not to listen money chargers but listen to the people who had transmission in "secret" temples. But not alchemy only. That man had day regimen. Stillness and movement with right method.

They say that calories restriction diet prolongs life up to 30 percents . Lack of calories can shorten lifespan. So the right balance is solution I believe

But he had the real knowledge of "pre-heaven"! He was initiated in Wudang sect. Where qigong people are initiated?

Well, probably there is such thing as karma. Or may be it's more about spirituality than body longevity. I watch many bagua masters are not in the good form. Also I believe it's very much up to the correct diet. Many IMA masters love alcohol and prob ably they overtraining. Healers could "spend" their qi to others. It's art of living, not qigong only. Lu Zi Jian, the renown bagua master, lived 119. He had regimen. Light exercises - 8 brocades, muscle change and bagua every day. He healed others. And plus good genes and karma

That could be "pre-heaven" only in theory. I just have found info from a ordained Taoist doctor's interview that only qualified doctor in TCM can teach qigong. ONLY. And have a look here. Some people learn it from books or from masters that do not exist and open "Taoist schools" picking up information here and there and lumping all together. Of course they won't last long

Yeah, only read but did not forget to promote your stuff. I have doubts that Vitalii posts here in order to contribute to the TTB community. If you do not know then do not post information that can mislead people

Ok, but have you seen an old taoist who looked much younger than he was indeed? Your post was deleted as it was personal criticism but not regarding subj. of the thread imho.

Opendao, just wonder how can man who practices neidan look at the age of over 100 years old? Any examples? If this man really is over 100 then he is great.

No, not all of them. But it is only my opinion that the more one does qigong the more that person will be "attached" to the post heaven reality bc it will nourish yin-shen. Let' see what happens next. Next person begin to meditate. He-she stops thoughts and does out of body experience or dreaming or smth like that. If there is no real yaun jing your spirit will be more yin. They say that gui is yin and xiang is yan and man is mix of yin and yan. But if you do more sitting, stopping thoughts you will naturally shift onto yin imho. Bc you have no real fuel for more higher experience. What is yuan jing? I dunno but I know it is our "karmic" fuel what we get from our "ancestral lineage" and from Tao when we are born. You can nourish your post heaven jing but not "ancestral". It's connected with some qi channels in our energy body. Normal human being has it blocked bc of psychic and physical traumas - "karma" and bc of not harmonious way of life. It's blocked and we loose connection to the "battery" and loose our qi and getting older. In qigong we probably can connect to Tao which is yuan qi but it's not connection to the yuan jing imho. This is the secret of neidan how to reconnect to the battery which nourishes our body fuel. I only can guess and I have only idea but it's not practical yet for me. I do not say that only Wu Lui Pai knows this method and I do not know if they have. But this is definitely not sitting as sitting for itself can not impact these channels which open up those channels. Just from body and energetic structure aspects it won't affect those channels and can even block it more. IMHO. In IMA there might be a method how to nourish yuan jing but this method is lost in many schools and that' why everything they do is development of post heaven mind and body and power but the more vigorous movements the more leakage of yuan jing. If you do slow mindful movements it will deplete your yuan jing as well but slower. But this this would not be replenishment of your yuan jing. The less visualizations and vigorous body and breath usage the slower leakage of yuan jing but it's not neidan but work with post heaven mind. Then one would practice "astral journeys" and so on wasting more yuan jing nourishing houtian yin-shen turning person to hui-xiang. Xiang-tian is higher level journeys to the higher realms through the crown of the head. The problem is qigong people mix it with buddhist doctrines and teach people astral journeys with no authentic yuan jing method. That' dangerous and that what they say it was not practiced in authentic taoist sects as well as Dazuo as neidan methods. Boddhidhrama was doing it at the final stage of his practice in the cave. But this was at the end of his alchemy practice on the final stage of alchemy. But those methods are lost and turned into many qigong styles which you can find now in China and Korea. I described my experience with buddhist and yoga meditations. I did it for few years not realizing what I was doing and I wondered why I did "spiritual" methods and was no feeling good at all. I was even tired after waking up. I had dark circles under eyes. And then I found authentic theory that it was yin practices. But I have to admit I had no authentic teacher in Taoism. What you can find now in the West is qigong methods but they do not care how that' stuff is authentic. If you start asking them they will piss you off man. I had IMA teacher for few years and I asked him about yuan jing and he said it bull shit and that those taoist just wanted my money and that he knew his stuff he taught - taichi, aikido, qigong. NO ONE got any results under his supervision for few years. I realized it was diluted taichi from he taught in the US and some diluted martial qigong. I lost even more yuan jing than many others who did not do anything like that. They just learned something from their teachers and then they want to sell it to you as they think that they spent money and time and it's time to get benefits out of it. That teacher said to me few times that he spent money in US for this and that why his stuff is good. Unfortunately this is the logic of qigong people. They want to sell what they bought from their teachers but no one cares hoe it is authentic.

I am not sure about physical immortallity. May be it's only symbolical meaning of the stage of transformation. Far from where I am now

It does not deplete yuan shen but yuan jing and even might strenghten yaun shen but then it would turn into yin-shen. For example dreaming. It depletes yuan jing they say. Everything we do depletes our yuan jing. And when one uses special breath or breath retention it might reduce yuan jing because of one would use his yuan jing imho. For example some people do some kind of breath which affects chakras. It might be not actual work with chakra but work with visualized chakra - you use your imagination and body fluids or vigour movents... but smooth motions might not deplete your yuan jing. Martial art do it bc they use power and jing. It depends. I had this experience and I understand this position. Few years ago I was "initiated " into yoga where I should concentrate on thr third eye. I was stupid having done it and I got problem with headache and I used to visit accupuncture doctor. Even now many teachers on this forum would teach you doing so. Recently I contacted a yoga teacher here with a query on yoga and he advised me some weird stuff like that and I said it was bad idea. He replied that I am emotionally unbalanced and not ready for good yoga. And Blah blah new age stuff. He said he wanted to help me. They would teach you this stuff with boon motives not realizing what they really teach. I have had this experience and I did this long sitting in buddhist meds and I had shift to the yin. I was really bad! I do nit buy it anymore. Also I asked a qigong teacher here on the TTB and it finished with that I was just abused by people in that thread. I only wanted to clarify what he teaches and how it affects our energies. They could not explain me anything and said to shut up. Often they mix qigong with another traditions theories, teach meds and "astral journeys". This is problem with qigong and yoga that we know in the West.. Stillness is yin, movement is yang. Only yuan jing makes our shen yan. It like the fuel for a rocket. If you do not replenish your yuan jing your shen won't be yan but more yin. This is dangerous imho. So I agree with that theory very much that it could be dangerous. But it depends on the certain qigong. Some of them do not use breath much or vigour movements. But these are not ming practices. They say one needs transmission for this. Not sure he- he but it might depend on the system egregor imho. If you do just something like callisthenics it won't replenish your yuan jing but only would desperse it bc you do physical movements even if it relaxes you. Even if you heal somebody with qi it might deplete your jing.

Yes, all these practices are Xing. People have some benefits bc of purging their Xing by means of depletion of Ming. It could be different variations of breath through the spine or MCO, visualizations etc. Opendao won't tell you what is Ming. This is secret. Because many people could create their fake lineages and use this knowledge as "method" if you tell them what that technique about. Quiet seating is definetely not the Ming as far as I know.

Yes, in yoga sutras it is about to come to the calmness of mind : I won't quote texts but just will say that asana and pranayama are follow by dharana ana dhyana (concentration and meditation). The goal is to activate dormant Kundalini which is based in muladhara chakra. Is not is the same as hueiyin point? Is not opening this point foundation in both yoga and taoism? I know they start with balancing body structure and do exercises to balance body and strengthen the legs and thus activate "alchemical" channels there which go through hueiyin point up the body imho. In yoga they do asanas and pranayama in order to affect this point. But it is not just quiet sitting in the beginning! That's totally wrong in both yoga in taoism. IMHO the same function of kidneys on subtle level is in TCM (and jing in the body).

There are many people who practice "yoga", qigong from books and video where there are many post- heaven breath manipulations and some visualizations, concentartions. I believe people can get "kundalini syndrome" or some subtle deviations. I am personally full of it. I suppose people can get some "benefits" from these practices bc of yuan jing depletion and that those benefits are questionable. The same is for qigong actually. These practices might speed up the yuan jing depletion I suppose. And this can create the illusion of spiritual progress. I realized such practices are way to nowhere - watch people here - they mix practices, methods mostly taken from books and videos, some have qigong teachers but I wonder how is it even close to neidan or real spirituality? May be sitting and concentrating on channels, chakras... sushumna breath... etc only speed up depletion. What are signes of yuan jing restoration, opendao? Do people get younger and live longer? Any real examples of this or it is mostly the theory? How does it really affect the body? I asked you about Kundalini. Yuan jing seems the same as "white ojas" in yoga. But those yoga practices are very secret and quite difficult. Difficult to get right method anywhere. But I suppose it easir in neidan than in yoga. In yoga it connected with tantra which is quite difficult for western people. How long does daily practice take in your school for good results, opendao? I believe this initial process is very natural and there is nothing about strict restrictions and renunciations of normal life? I suppose that spiritual maturity is the most important together with right method and teacher. This is not a bunch of techniques. Taoists say that Tao is simple but it's difficult to understand

So qigong method first? This is not lie what I said and you know this. I can prove my words.

Do you want me to post here the printscreen of your old website where you STATED that you teached qigong which you learned from books and fishy seminars?

Vitalii, I am not a friend of opendao, I have never seen him. I remember you were qigong teacher (with no lineage) few years ago but now you teach and sell neidan (no lineage, no school in China). You have no lineage and can not prove your qualification. You do not respect other people and your goal is business. Sad but true ©

You think that supporting scam on the TTB is good idea? You should understand that Vitalli posts here not in order to discuss it but to promote his self made taoi$$m based on books and qigong seminars which he wants to sell here as "tradition". This is sad how some people greed for money and do harm to others

When you read Zhang San Feng' words about the method you always should remember that: The Writings Attributed to Master Zhang San Feng: Nobody really knows whether or not one of the numerous persons called "Master Zhang San Feng" actually wrote these short treatises or commentaries attributed to him. They may have been documents compiled, redacted, edited, or composed by persons associated with a Taoist school where Master Zhang San Feng is respected or revered. They may have been compiled or written hundreds of years after Master Zhang San Feng died or disappeared. This is also true for writings attributed to Lao Tzu. The official Taoist cannon consists of thousands of documents composed over many centuries since 500 BCE. The documents are part of the extensive Taoist written tradition, and the exact author of a particular document is sometimes uncertain. --------------------- This is actually the way how qigong people distort Tradition. I see that these ZSF's(?) words were about Xing method. Now the question why Vitalii posts here so much about Da Zuo and Xing methods. And almost nothing at all about how to cultivate Ming I would prefer to read traditional texts rather than somebody's opinions who has no connection to the authentic Tradition.

In theory yes, but practically it's always better to have a teacher who can guide you. But his DVDs seem great. Normally they start off with yuan jing and they say transmission is the must. Only alchemy replenishes yuan jing. It's like secret method and cannot be transmitted through book or video they say. Not sure about yuan qi (yuan jing nourishes yuan qi but may be the other way around). Does he cover this theory in his books? (Sometime they can only tell it is what you can get but how it works in reality?)

Does he teach Yuan Chi method in his books?

Okey, but where Ming practice in your school? What is the name of this practice? Is it mentioned in any text? Just wonder.

Vitalii posted:

Is it the same what Kundalini within the body is?