Antares

Are you familar with Babaji or you hold a candle when Babaji initiated Lahiri or might be you just read in a book about Lahiri's experience? When you meet Babaji in person only then you can say what is true or not. There are many other examples on how somebody was initiated by Babaji but obviously they can't prove it. It is just statements. Lahiri wrote much about internal guru, so I believe that Babaji is methaphor and.... Oh, gosh... This man states on his website that he does not belong to nath smpradaya so he should not claim that he has connection to Babaji Gorakshanth. Gorakshanath as yogi did existed in the Middle Ages in india and he was very powerful yogi but naths revere him as Divine Energy (or Dharma, sattvic tattva beyond Maya). This is not person. So Babaji is the same principle. In India they call any guru Babaji. So Babaji is guru principle. And probably it is same principle as Gorakshanath. One must not recieve transmision directly from Babaji. As for Kriya Yoga it is derived from nath tradition actually and it is simplified version of nath's techniques. Anyone who has transmission from a guru have right to say he is initiated by Babaji. But I repeat that Babaji is not real immortal yogi in flesh but Divine principle. You have to be careful with someone who states that he belongs to nath tradition. There are loads of fake gurus in India and only few are real gurus. There are many attached to money gurus even among naths. The same goes to Kriya Yoga. They use some ideas from authentic yoga to use people in their goals. I would suggest you to read Lahiri's commentaries on yoga. As for his claims of meeting Babaji don't take it too seriously. It could be someone who showed him kriyas. There are many kriyas in India bc people interpreted nath techniqes on diff manner. If you ask me how I know this I will say that I know guru of nath tradition and I talked a lot to him about yoga and he said that Babaji is myth. He is probably only one authentic guru who talk about yoga with westerners. It is closed tradition and really diff to find real guru who will tell you about true Yoga. Sorry but I have to say that almost anyone who says anything about yoga or Indian yogis does not know much about real Yoga. You must talk to someone who initated to authentic Yoga in Indian Tradition. There are many theories about yoga in many western schools coming from teachers like Swami... or Shri Shri... and many books have written but unfortunatelly this is not true information about Yoga.

The problem is no one seen Babaji. They believe that Babaji is only symbol of the internal Guru who they called Babaji and that such real person never existed. This is just symbol of the Divine Avatar, not real looking young immortal person. There were many people in India who called themselves Babaji but no one could maintain the young appearance. In Yoga there is another purpose - the immortality in Spirit but not in the body. The physical immortality is the feature of alchemical taosim but this might have symbolical meaning imho. There are few levels of "immortality" in Taoism but they symbolize the phases of spiritual transformation rather than physical longevity. IMHO of course

They say you have to practice it along with Taichi Qigong. Then it will give you more benefits. I suppose that first one should practice TQ and taichi and only then begin seated brocade qigong. I have all these qigong DVD's and books. Probably I will do it when I have time for it. I wanted to do it now but later I realized that it is only qigong and it is very questionable if it is spiritual. It's up to you what you are looking for. These qigongs are just practice with post-heaven qi and I wonder how it can give you longevity. As far as I know one must replenish pre-heaven qi in order to get long life as this pre-heaven qi determines our most inner "fuel" of life. It can not be received from the book or video IMHO. That man probably got spiritual transmission from his teacher and we are talking of the longevity technique we should always remember this. For example the teacher of S.A. Olson lived "only" 102 years and he did not seem to get real transmission otherwise he would live rather longer. So they are cunning saying that you get the same technique on the DVD. IMHO. You must have spiritual teacher for such technique. And I would think twice if it is worth to live that much. That might be good but maintaining the young appearance but not old body and face like shrunk vegetable.

The more your yoga traditional the less chances to get K. syndrome. (KS). People often have severe KS bc they rely on techniques rather than on Traditional system within Dharma teaching. They get KS bc they have loads of impurities in granthas (three tan tiens). And when K is awaken it gives unpleasant feelings. Traditionally K. revered as Goddess or Divine Power which is located in outer space and descend from the top (7th chakra). In its turn it starts to evolve kundalini within the body and this is process is most safe and requires the Shaktipat of guru from spiritual lineage or personal guru but latter does not mean that one can create his/her own technique and thus obtain Shaktipat. The technique must come from spiritual lineage and this is only the way to avoid severe KS. Ask people who sell you "kundalini" stuff if they have traditional techniques and if they teach Dharma rather than giving just bunch of techniques how to open 3d eye or muladhara. Some people just make up techniques, call it "kundalini yoga" or "high level yoga" and sell it for the purpose of personal enrichment. If they do not have ancient texts of their school and they refer to someone in the past who created these techniques you should do research on these people and tradition if it was really spiritual lineage where spiritual realization happened in the past. This should not be akin to "there was great yogi (taoist) in the mountain who created...". WHO was that yogi (taoist), what is the spiritual lineage? Sometime they refer to people who lived in the past and who you can't check... no texts... no tradition.. no spirituality... JUST techniques with some feelings of something in the spine. I read here in the forum some people were saying that their kundalini is rising... but imho they only believe it is Kundalini... Kundalini may have many qualities beginning from gross feelings in the spine and ending up with Divine Purity. It's up to you what is in you and which energy you activate inside of you. Not all techniques the same and not all of them spiritual. Even if they call it spiritual or say it has Divine nature. The only way to make sure you are on the right path is to make sure your system has roots in real authentic spiritual tradition. It is not qigong, not bunch of techniques, not self made bunch of techniques with breath, movements and so on... Spirituality is rather Dharma than technique. Beware people here who promote CDs, DVD's promising you kundalini. They crave for money raher than teach you spirituality

Let's just say they can not even say the name of their school and their guru's name. But it is known as "modern synthesized kundalini yoga". Fair enough. All authentic lineages are well known in india and guru's heard about another traditional schools and know many other gurus. There are many branches of schools and many half traditional styles but if they could provide realizations those schools would be renown for sure. All main schools have lineages and traditional texts. I do not know which karma one should have to take part in this project. But I realize it is typical for the west and there are loads yoga schools like that. Somebody sent me PM with link to another "authentic" yoga lineage where the lineage was made up with funny aka Indian names and drawn with hands pictures of the "Himalayan yogis". A man is in funny poses on the pictures there on the website and invite people for real yoga... When I answered to that PM I got reply that "but he does astral projection in a class and has sex with students... he is very coool".

who never charged for teaching, never stopped learning, and died over a hundred years of age. Yeah, thats "commercial self made yoga" I'm done here... That's just emotions. Do you know how many Himalayan yogis in Himalayas? Thousands. It does not mean that they practice authentic yoga. There are many "yogis" who just do asanas sometime and smoke charas. Anyone can state that he learnt from yogi in Himalayas. And then charge 500 $ for seminar and saying that his teacher does not charge anyone and he is immortal and many many other weird stuff. It's up to you who to believe. I just said that this does not seem traditional approach to yoga. You have nothing to compare with and you have little experience with traditional yoga if any at all. If someone mixes up yoga with qigong referring to some great yogi somewhere in the mountains personally for me it sounds weird at least bc I know something about traditional yoga and that it is never mixed up with taoist systems. But I agree that there are many diff yoga systems in India and many diff yogis and that it might have good practices but all this stuff is very questionable especially when someone sells it in the West for big money. Without traditional approach it would be some kind of qigong but you shoukd be aware that qigong derived from taoist alchemy and it's diluted form. You did not answer what you are looking for in this system. Kundalini? When you get it evolved let us know, please. Who got kundalini evolved there?

snowmonki, I can list here only few traditional yoga lineage just for example: - nath sampradaya - kashmir shaivism - kubjika - kriya yoga of Lahiri Mahasaya ..... The list of indian yoga above refers to the yogic and tantric sects which have traditional authentic Parampara. Also there many half traditional yoga. For example: - Shivananda yoga (which is only his personal therapeutic style of yoga) - Swami Satyananda's yoga - Krishnamacharya's yoga (personal style as well) - Dihrendha Brahmachari's yoga (style) and many others And there are many many not traditional self made diluted yoga made up in USA. Yogi Bajan is good example of such the "yoga". He refers to "sikh yoga", but sikhs do not practice yoga in common and there never had been "kundalini yoga" within sikh tradition. If you refer to yogi Bajan's style which was self-made, as example of "traditional yoga" I will strongly disagree with you on this. It does not have Parampara and has no any traditional roots in authentic yoga. This is mix of some techniques. I will explain briefly why this is not traditional yoga. Traditionally in Indian authentic sampradayas they revere Kundalini as the Goddess and they do pujas for her and for other Deities of theirs traditions. Yoga asana's and pranayamas are only PART of methods and all of them are connected with Tantra. But some people only took some methods from there and invented their own styles for health benefits merely or for some other benefits such as diff small siddhis akin to some neigong benefits in MA. And they invented theirs STYLES. But style just fits a certain person. In Tradition there are many other techniques and methods and only Guru can choose what is right for a certain person. And spirituality means transmission from guru what one can't get from yoga instructor. Yoga instructor can just only show you technique. Ok, they can tell you that your guru is "inside" and "blah blah blah", but this is just words, words and words.... Who got spiritual realization in these yoga styles? Why you think this is Yoga? Bc they have flexible bodies and say nice words? First you have to determine what you are looking for in yoga. The word Yoga for itself means "Union" and "Connection". The Union of Shiva and Shakti and Connection to the spiritual lineage. Better to say "commercial self made "yoga" " What is the classical yoga? That's right! I agree A Doc acknowledged spiritual attainments of another doc? Good stuff! An old women coming to a doctor and complains on her health. Doctors does medical inspection and says "Ah, I give you prescription. Kundalini yoga twice a day. One hour in the morning and one hour before going to bed ". What is the lineage? I could not find any info on this on the web. But what I could see was the mix of conceptions and techniques taken from qigong and "yoga". That' enough for me. You do not have any of good points in your post

SriChi, the very first yogis in Indian tradition were Celestial Avatars (incarnations of Lord Shiva) such as Gorakshanath, Babaji or Guru Padmasambhava considered as incarnation of Buddha. You might ask who was a teacher of Buddha and this is good question but you have to remember that all of them were disciples of their teachers and all these lineages hold different Parampara lineage which is coming from God. That means that all authentic lineages comes after incarnations of Avatars who in yogic tradition were incarnations of Lord Shiva. You want to say that Dr. Glenn Morris is such the Mahayogi. Do you have any evidence of this? How he can prove this? Did Mahayogis of the past sell their yoga for 500$ for each level? Did they hold seminars for the bunch of $$$? What you can see, lads, today is how many people invent some stuff and selling it for the sake of good profits but ask them how are they spiritual. Many of them do not know what is spirituality and they only speak of it. Spirituality is not a technique. Kundalini yoga never has been a technique. It is impossible to awake Kundalini just by breath or physical movements. If somebody says he evolved his/her kundalini by breath or bandhas - avoid it. This is confusion. They just arise they apana and confuse it with kundalini. Yoga in the West today is very good commercial product and you have to always keep it mind. The same situation is in Qigong actually. If you start ask these people about spirituality they will not be able to reply to your all queries and will not be able to explain you all things about it. They only can sell you some techniques - how to breath or how to move. it can have some benefits for health but sometime it can be harmful. Anyway there are loads of free stuff available online or in books which comes from renown yogis. Why to pay so much money to someone else? Invent your own stuff, promote it and get profits. If you do not have money and want good yoga techniques just spend some 30$ and get this book: http://www.amazon.com/Kriya-Secrets-Revealed-Complete-Techniques/dp/1479109517/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1381219965&sr=1-1&keywords=kriya+yoga And say Goodbye to all your doctors who want bunch of $$$ from you. At least this is set of traditional authentic techniques

1)I know KAP safely awakens Kundalini and is the most effective. Hi. How do you know it's safe and most effective? What about possible kundalini syndrome? As far as I know only traditional yoga methods are the most safe and effective. That mean there must be Parampara - spiritual lineage where pupil should receive transmission and is to be guided by his guru. At least kundalini practice must have traditional roots coming from authentic yoga lineage. What is the lineage KAP coming from? How is it safe? Who is going to mitigate kundalini syndrome which you might have? How are you sure that you will do everything right? 2)But i dont have the money Well, that' just may be not for you at the moment. If they do not reply to your request just let it go imho.

I believe that "lineage" means the line (direction, connection) back to the Primordial Being (state of mind) and this is not any sort of ideas based just on one's beliefs system or just any systematization of techniques but first of all is based on state of mind and level of energy (vibrations) of certain teacher(s) and this is what passing down to a disciple. Do you think this transmission possible without authentic "lineage"? It's quite interesting word which consists of two words "line" and "age". It kinda points out on something what has been proved by time to be effective method. I have met few people who said that they were spiritual being initiated in lineage but they scarcely could prove it by their deeds. Sometime "lineage" is distorted - people adding something new on the top of authenticity; sometime they count lineage as something what is passed down technically e.g. some movements, breath patterns, philosophical ideas and so on. But if there is no realization it would not be authentic and would not be the authentic Lineage. More over that there might be "spiritual" realization but there are different levels in it and only authentic teacher can pin it down exactly. Many initially authentic teachings which led to high level realization were distorted to the levels of lower realizations keeping the ideas, some techniques in itself but without real masters with real spiritual realizations. Taichi is good example. Nowadays it is mostly system akin to calisthenics and you scarcely can find authentic taichi teacher. The same goes for Shaolin arts for example. People referring to Bodhidharma and stating that their system is the same what he taught but if you watch all these systems you will see how they greatly differ and sometime not even similar. And far not every one out of those people have Bodhidharma's realization but stating that they maintain lineage which coming from BD .

That's not only the distinction between them imho. You pin down they approach only but I believe that also it is the matter what exactly they do. Even if one sincerely loves what he/she does without egoistic narcissism but does wrong method whether it be distorted/not complete/fake... I would not count that person among cultivators. Delusions are very deep by nature and it's difficult to recognize where you are wrong until you have good spiritual teacher. I am not sure what exactly you wanted to pin down in this thread but first you should clarify what you count as Cultivation in general.

Your statement is equal to call such prominent Taoist immortals as Lu Tung Pin and his teacher silly people. Elitist? Might be yes, but not silly. But that depends what you want to cultivate. There are few different levels of attainments according to Taoist authentic doctrines. Qigong cultivation does not require "transmission" as such. And works with postnatal qi mostly and does not give high level attainments. Better health, vitality, some psychic power, martial power - all this yes. But much more chances to get deviations with practice. That's actually the problem in the West ( and China as well) that people don't know much about Tradition and do not realize the difference between diff kinds of cultivation.

And not every qigong is useful. There could be quite harmful elements even in "well known" qigongs which can deplete prenatal qi. Also we have to confess there are many fake qigong "masters" unfortunately. I think you are right, some people have "karma" to believe fake or not legit masters or practice something from books, video etc... Oh, I do not say all this completely WRONG but it can be waste of time and energy in most cases. I think person needs "right" karma to meet right teacher.

I would say that for real cultivation one needs real transmission from authentic master from legit lineage. The problem is that there may be only few legit masters in the West who can do transmission. Other ones would say you do not need transmission only bc they can't do it. Most of the people (95% approx) just do qigong thinking they do real cultivation.

Irish Cream Liqueur

I have mine with Irish Cream. Very tasty

I read few books on TCM featured by westerners but they did good investigations on the subject and had practical experience in Chinese clinics. It's something new to me that authentic TCM' food recommendations are close to paleo diet and that it's recommended by taoists masters. I read something that they have nothing against meat and even alcohol but I am not sure it should be consumed every day. For example I give the reference the to authentic taoist teacher' words: http://all-dao.com/nutrition-fasting.html And I brought another evidence that Chinese taoist had bread every day. But I trust to scientific notions on gluten as well. So I am kinda frustrated. I will have a look the book you are referring to. I read that fermentation affects gluten such the way it would be digested much easier. Is there in the book you are referring to "authentic TCM" recommendations or there is scientific perspective only? I have heard already about 99% of human existence time paleo "evolution" and also I heard such theory that people did the surge in evolution bc of agricultural revolution. There is also raw paleo theory stating people had been eating raw for thousands years. But from the TCM perspective that's not recommended to go raw. So I need to investigate more on the subj. Will get that book and read it

Thanks for the post but don't understand what's the problem with gluten. Only some people can't digest gluten (they missing some ferments for this) and may be Siberians and Americans were such the case with gluten (as well as casein) and for all others gluten is worse digested but it's not problem at all when grains are fermented for few hours in lightly acid water (with vinegar). This what I do before I cook grains. And what do you suggest to eat instead of grains? Meat? Grains (whole brown rice, oat), buckwheat are good source of plant protein and I prefer it to animal protein but I have free range eggs as well. Fermentation helps to digest gluten well. As for your link to worms in grains.... I tried to read but I could not. Does that man has transmission in authentic Taoist sect? It seems to be scientific research with excogitations and references to another scientific excogitations on subj. Is there any reference on authentic traditional text where prohibition on eating any grains are stated? I do not see any conjunction between grains and "worms" in energy body. Is it bc of gluten? As for ketogenic diet. It supposed to be diet with 70- 80 % fat consumption. What kind of fat they advise to eat? Any reference on this in authentic Taoist texts??? So TCM is absolutely wrong with food recommendations but scientific fancies are alright?

Does any solid scientific work prove this statement? I read another works how it can be harmful for liver and adrenal glands. The problem with this theory is that it was not proved by long term practical experiment and exists only in theory. Some people use it for materials for their book, they sell it, earn money on it but do not do it themselves on long term basis. There is simple solution - to avoid "fast carbohydrates" and eat only twice a day. Or three times if one has fast metabolism system

Enjoy. BTW I stumbled upon TCM doctor opinion that warm plain water is the best drink and medicine ever existed on Earth. That what I drink mostly adding "dragon herbs" compounds or DH's tea bags with plants. But that's me. Warm water is good for kidneys, stomach and spleen. But much of cold water is bad for kidneys. And makes body excessive with dampness. Or you can add teaspoon of honey to the glass of warm (not hot) water. he he Sorry, Ghost cat, I forgot to add one.... to this post he he

In this thread yes!

Any sugar, artificial sweeteners, cola like, soda like... drinks are bad for kidney essence. It depletes kidneys yan essence. The more one takes it the less kidneys yan and worse blood circulation. You can say oh i just take it very little amount... For me that only mean you deplete kidneys yan slowly. Slow and steady

Wish you long journey, he he

.Natural crystallization is not what I meant. Okey. No stress

I hope you know that honey produces harm chemicals when heated up to 60 C. And that it must be raw honey otherwise it has near sugar qualities.