Antares

You are twisting my words, mate. I cited JAJ's words which you called here "dogma" and that there is direct transmission from Tao. And ST said that any of JAJ's theories and many others are not applicable to BFP system. I did not say there is mahamudra like transmission in BFP. If I said that please quote it! I did not say that ST is hiding information. You gave absolutely false and wrong information of what I said! Bubble, I do not know about your practice but this is nonsense what you are saying! You twisted all my words.

Thanks for this. At least without insulting... This was about roadmaps... I am sorry that I repeat myself. And mine is sorry that I am still here. Guys, you say to be mindful and listen to you. But you do not want to listen other opinions. I already mentioned that I know one person very well who has been practiced Tummo for 20 years according to the Tibetan Yoga book that ST referring to. This is not the philosophy book. This is correct and direct instructions of opening up subtle energy body channels which according to ST is only "mind". Thus I do not undesrtstand why to refer to this book if you say there is nothing like channels. My friend said that he opened up all this channels and he could for example reverse his age 10 years back in his health and appearance. There are side channels, sushumna, MCO and many other channels. He says if you dont have this you do not do yoga at all. It is up to you who to believe to but you say this is open thread and i share what I know. I just missed your points about this book as roadmap. He said that Kundalini is really evolving and this is real akin to near death experience.

Which of ST's words I twisted to my convenience? Okey, but if student asks respectfully about most basic information like how many meditations there in the system and what can "transmission" mean then it would be nice to have reply to this query not insulting a student. This would be respect from BOTH sides. If there was no answer I used to ask another person who is student of GMDW who you started to abuse too. As you say this is discussion thread where people are free to share experiences and if I ask Cihan about his personal experience I expect respectful answer appropriate to the thread but not the personal insulting instead of reply. Is not it clear?

Also I just have found next ST words: Thus there is "spiritual channel" which is "trunk" of the tradition, but another day they say it is DOGMA and ST says thanks to SG that he clarifies "misconceptions" about BFP family traditions and other taoist spiritual traditions. Excuse my arrogance please, but what is diff between what Jerry Johnson said and these words of ST? One day you say direct transmission from Tao, another day of "spiritual channeling". This is not bc I am disrespectful, I am very respectful to any authentic lineage. But just previous page I was abused by ST who said how I am arrogant. Was that respectful to me? Was not that insulting my personality ? What I should feel after this? How respectful you are to other people that you asking for respect to yourself? Just think about this

Bubbles. You gave example of how we easy misunderstand each other. I did not mean that post you are referring, I will find what I meant. But according to your link ST says: Like kung-fu systems, the complete truth of a qigong art is never taught in class, never completely recorded in writing, but transmitted to advanced students through oral teachings, symbols, and other telepathic means, depending on the teacher. So, there is "transmission". This looks now like we are playing games, don't you think so? Example how people can say diff things. This was relevant to the thread but my question was absolutely irrelevant, arrogant and going off topic! Nice! But I do not care anymore because as I said it is like playing games, people are not responsible for their words. Forgive me if I am incorrect in some statements but for me it is like that, now we are going arguing, linking, and quoting....then i am going to be abused again . One day it is must read taoist books, another - nothing to do with it at all.

Okey lads. Let's chill. I was in the mountains last days and wanted to let go my thoughts about all this and I wanted to start FP again with fresh mind but I happened to read last posts and don't feel i can benefit from it right now. I just do not feel right myself with this aggressiveness and I think I should not post here any longer as you already say i am disrespectful freak with irrelevant questions . I wanted to hear other people experience and to see how people benefit from it. I do not care who how ling practice but I care how people pure and honest. If somebody getting agitated easy I do not care what kind of lights he can see. If somebody does some statements then I can ask to elaborate but if there is no answer and only abuse I do not feel right with it. If somebody refers to taoist and buddist books and then saying that nothing in common I do not feel it's right. Just my 2cents

Both Sifu Terry and Sifu Garry wrote several times in this thread that the best approach is "just do it". Sifu Terry wrote this long before you began posting here. Sifu Terry wrote clearly at the beginning of the thread that FP did not fit into any traditional roadmap. Incorrect. I will cite ST words that FPCK is part of BFP arts and should be practiced along with other kung fu otherwise it has some side effects. As for maps ST refers to taoists and buddhist books saying all his serious students must read these books. I wanted to clarify what is there in common and how it can help. There were not answers but that's okey. I don't say you must answer but I say it is open thread and people should not be aggressive. As many other people have same questions! i did not notice "things went down". This is your own perspective

Can you cite where I was disrespect to Sifu Terry and where i said it is incorrect teaching? Where I stated he holds information? I used to ask how many levels and how many are "enough" for all benefits. Eventually ST replied but some 6 months after I asked it first time. That's why I asked another person who is student of GMDW.

I used to discuss this issues with few other people who post in this thread and have practiced FPCK for a long time. And I see they have these questions too and mixing FPCK with other practices. For example you advised to practice FP with kung fu for the best benefits. Also you mentioned how powerful was your experience learning from GMDW. And when I asked to elaborate it you said it is not relevant to the thread and that it is "silly freaky". This is just dishonest. If I ask somebody about attainments of FPCK you say "who a fuck are you to ask these questions" - it sounds aggressive. I wanted to find the best approach for best benefits of FPCK practice. This is open discussion thread and people can have diff questions and diff karma.

AGAIN, THIS POSTING HAS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH FLYING PHOENIX QIGONG--NEITHER WITH ITS PRACTICE NOR IN WITH FP HISTORY AND ORIGINS AS A MATTER OF CURIOSITY. FLYING PHOENIX CHI KUNG IS PART OF BOK FU PAI SYSTEM, WHICH IS A TAOIST MARTIAL ART TRADITION, NOT BUDDHIST) Absolutely nothing? Both are spiritual traditions. All spiritual traditions should have the same CORE. HEART. SPIRIT. That' what I meant saying "mind can not understand the heart". By mind I meant the intellect, and by heart the spirit And coming from this elaborate, please, if you can - HOW INTELLECT CAN UNDERSTAND THE SPIRIT? As for cited "Mahamudra instructions": May be it has nothing to do with FPCK. But you advised to read the book on Tibetan Yoga Doctrine as the best book for the FPCK practice . This is dishonest. And CC's Don Juan used the term of Intention which can not be realized by intellect. Let's say you personally (neither Sifu Garry you are referring to) NEVER LEARNED FPCK from DVD. So how can you be sure that it is the same to learn it from DVD or under GMDW direct supervision? I did not insist on importance of transmission but as I mentioned before I used to talk to many people who had experience in other spiritual arts and who stated that "transmission" is needed or desirable for spiritual growth. You can call it as magnetic induction or somewhat else. THIS IS CONNECTION on the level of the HEART, not intellect only. And I only asked Cihan if he really realized the "heart" - spirit to be advisor for other people. What do you find INSULTING Cihan in my question? I applied to him with my question and he could reply to my question. This is normal discussion for any spiritual forum and I do not break TTB forum rules and do not insult anybody personally. I just wondered how far one can go only with few FPCK's meditations learning from DVD's. People can share about their personal attainments here if they wish. I personally did not have those excellent results learning from DVD's. So I have my own experience and yes I have some doubts that one can achieve spirituality learning from DVD's. I hope that FPCK really that unique spiritual system that can help anyone to progress on spiritual path without live teacher. And I appreciate that you answer the questions here and that you find time for it. I am very sorry to hear that you are unhappy with my questions finding it irrelevant to the taoist art discussion thread . I only wanted to clarify how far FPCK is spiritual system and not only "chikung for health". Let's say the term "chi kung" was invented recently and there was not so definition in any taoist scriptures. Neither there was such the word as "meditation". Neither it was invented for "health" benefits only. That's why I was frustrated a bit about chikung systems. I tried to outline the taoist perspective on spirituality and secondary methods which were only additions to spiritual taoist systems. This was the question about "pre heaven" and "post heaven". According to taoists scriptures (and to few taoist lineages ) "pre heaven" can be only transmitted from a master to student. And NOT only through poetry, music and so on.... Another point that FPCK system is that unique that does not require all mentioned above.

But how can pure heart be diff understood in diff traditions? I think for any tradition it is important. May be it is even more important than any other techniques. And what do you understand by pureness of the heart? Is it anything like CC's "intention" or personal maturity? I think my problem is I over intellectualize things as I used to read a lot of diff books and tried loads of techniques and try to put FP in some kinds of linear theories of mind. I happened to talk to some people a lot who criticised chikung saying it all dilutted stuff and that where my questions were coming from. Too much mental luggage which I have to just drop. I did not beleive much that FP is all one need. May be just need to open my heart to it. And I used to mix with other stuff, and did not do it right - my speed was faster, will do very slow. Will do clip later on for speed checking.

Tao, it what was said! It's not the path but it what quieting the mind and prepares for meditation (dhyana). My friend said that it is must do if one wants to benefit from qigong. First quiet the mind than qigong and not the other way around

Garry, it was said that kung fu training akin to asana and pranayama and helps much with FP practice. I recall ST words here that FP without kung fu can give some side effects bc energy would not flow properly or smthing like that I can not recall. Why you find it freaking silly? It's what ST says and advice.

Sifu Terry, thanks for comments. I would agree with you completely but I have no serious experience in Chinese IMA. I used to practice TCC Chen Manching style for some couple of years (not every day) and iron shirt chikung under supervision of my sensei, And I would say that kind of pranayama in Iron Shirt chikung was very advanced and no one could even understand how to breath correctly there. And that stuff was half way traditional. The taichi form was different from what on your DVD. Only the first section is very much the same but further the sequence is different. Chikung had unknown origin and breath was very difficult to learn how to do it right. Even after two years it was difficult to get and I quit that sensei, I did not like much his MA style and could not get the breath. And no one else could get it. Indian type pranayam is easier to do and can be learned from book. But I think it is working OTHER WAY than FP alchemy and thus there might be some another energy flow and mechanics. I was thinking of it last days and honestly I do not want to mix it. My friend said like he does not know what to do with that evolved Kundalini. And this is problem there! They do not know what to do with it. Bc they do from books not traditional stuff. FP might wotk another way. t But in Indian yoga for example some good pranayamas which purge energy channels and chakras. For example nauli kriya cleanses navel chakra, kapalabhati and bhastrika do navel and head chakras, naddi shodha with breath retention does side channels and brings prana into central channel and that's why it gets yogi to the calmness of mind. I have no clue what FP pranayama does. My friend doe not anything about BFP and certainly he can mistake about chikung, probably he just stumbled upon some watered down chikung from books. I have been looking for last year among IMA what to practice next after I quit Aikido. Not much choice in place where I live. I learned two sections of taichi from your DVD and as it is very similar to what I learned before I got it rapidly from your DVD. Also I wanted to practice Yan Style Taichi Chikung with Stuart Olson DVD. There is movements coordinated with breath. So I could do it with taichi form and plus FP stances. What would be your advice? You say that FP long form is better and more profound than taichi forms. What we can do along with FP to get more benefits from it? Thanks I mentioned that there is no good kung fu teacher in the area. Probably later I can learn traditional Wing Chun, but not at the moment

And yes as somebody said above asana follows by pranayam. Only very basic pranayam can be practiced first half year. That's only the way I can see to smooth out the body and still the mind. Many sages used these methods. As for taoists let's see how they lived. In the mountains and in harmony with nature.

Cihan, nice idea! ST says that the order of meds is how GMDW taught him but it is not must follow the same order. I have begun the short form of vol.3 and that' okey, I don't feel qri but I can manage the stance and it's actually good for training of smoothness of movements along with legs strengthening. Yesterday talked to my friend again and he said it again that without asana and pranayama I can forget about high level benefits from any qigong. It took him 10 years to figure it out. Pranayam and asan is shortest way to purge the body and mind. Mine thinking to follow his advice and practice it along with basics of FP. I can do vol.3 short form plus BTB. Warm up, BTB, warm up for vol.3 and short form of vol.3. Once a day, or twice. Slow and steady. And yoga

This is not over night kung fu as SG says. It takes time. The more you do the more quiet your mind. It can go slow. It purges the mind slowly removing layers of negativity (tensions). Also you gonna do moving standing ones - I would recommend!

Thanks for final clarifications. This is more clear than ever before. FP seems to be really poferful magic system with celestial healing energy. I feel I have to go on working with my meds. I think to work more on couple basic standing and seated meds as you say that even mastering one is enough for channeling to the healing Flying Phoenix CK energy. But doing BTB smoothly and with shifting dune speed with double shoulder stance is real challenge I must say

So going to release BP meds soon?

LOL if I pick one I loose benefits from one or another. I meant to do only level 1 of FP as there are some good for kidney essence meds and SYG is totaly static and seated in the beginning. Or I can do only vols. 3 & 4 of FP + SYG. Do you think just seating is enough? Why not to benefit from some FP meds if I have time for it? You say only one med. of SYG per month. Right?

Yes, to many practices... I have many DVDs and books. And my friend told me 6 months ago to go with pranayama only. He says that untill I can control the breath I won't benefit from qigong but I began FP practice and I would say I benefited from it actually. And today he said it again but he is yoga man and he does some qigong as well. He does not know about Doo family. But he says that pranayam is shortest way to calmness and to the essence and only from there any other path is open. May be he is right. And Anyway be still and silent and it all comes together! In yoga they do pranayma prior to dhyana - meditation. In BFP there are loads of good things and they are working another way from yoga. Yes, there are bend and twists in vol.3 of FP which I have begun to do and it should be good for kidneys. So, you are right. But some people say to do only FP or SYG. That's where I screwed up myself changing one for another. May be just go on with FP, there is one med which can be done seated in vol.1 and same as SYG1 but with another breath %. Or I can do SYG1 after FP meds. I think it the better rather than to add yoga stuff. Will try to seat more and breath.

I have been doing level 1 vols. 1 & 2 for 6 months every day, cat. Not only questioning. And certainly I want to know what I am doing and what for. This qigong does not rely on taoist map. And as legend says "only pure ones will benefit". What is impurity? It is not moralistic sense, I am sure. Impurity is in body, speach and mind - energy blockages, right? My friend recommended pranayamas. And they purge energy/nervous system for sure. What supposedly should calm the mind. But I personally do not like yoga as much as like qigong approach. So, if we discern taoist texts what we will see there? That's said that first we should cultivate the essence - roots of the tree. Kidneys. Right? I do not see how this chikung helps with kidneys. I personally have kidney defficiency and I think that's what I should work with. I have a DVD with qigong designed to replenish kidneys. Probably I have to practice it along with FP. I thought to shift for yoga but I do not want to quit FP as I have been doing it for a long time.

Just was talking to friend of mine on Skype about "transmission" and so on. He has huge experience in all this stuff. Did not talk to him for long time. He says the calmness of mind is most important and his advice is to do pranayama first for sometime and some basic qigong afterwards. Otherwise it would not work. We'll try this way. I'll be doing yin yoga by Sarah Powers and some basic FP meds

I do not propose you anything, cat. It is up to you what you can get from this discussion. First, we need more info on the system and listen to our teachers here. And practice. But there is no information is given even about how many levels there in FP and what they for. It is not fair at least and I still do not know whether I should continue practice FP or leave it. I just share my thoughts and wanted to hear other people experiences in FP. I used to quit it few times and started next day again then mixed with SYG or just only SYG, then only FP, SYG again and so on. I just expected to get more basic info here about FPCK and then make decision. That's why I had to ask somebody else about system. And I just realized how live teacher is important. I had the query about how we could get other levels of FPCK and how many are "enough" for all benefits and make decision but there is no answer. I just do not know myself.

Garry, what is on video btw? There is no any description. It would be nice if you could tell more about your video that you post here. I can't see what is that for. But looks nice