sree
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Everything posted by sree
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I have never died before either but I am inquiring into the Tao of dying. The Tao Te Ching is supposed to be a book of wisdom that is littered with the sage (θδΊΊ) does this and the sage does that. So, what does the sage do when his body dies? Being a sage, he should know. And it is something he knows long before the onset of dying. Only the fool doesn't know anything until his pants are on fire. Like you, I don't know either, Samurai. But unlike you, I realize I don't know and need to know before my pants are on fire.
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I don't dig, Samurai. And I am sure you don't either no matter what you say. You are not the body even though you assert that you are. You, like me, are an ongoing reality show. The moment of truth comes when the body starts to check out. And you are going to know it in no uncertain terms that you are definitely not the body because it will be a weird experience. I have watched my dog die and I could see the strangest divide between what exist and what does not.
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Ok, I will use your guidance to set up my altar. Yes, I am not into other realms and just want to focus on a reality that has material significance to my life. The ancestral altar would make a good model. Instead of ancestral tablets with names of the deceased, I will place my prized artifacts - native handicraft pieces - on the mantelpiece above the fireplace (which will serve as the altar). They will symbolize the spirit of human talent that I worship. Red candles are scary. I will use scented white candles instead. Just a bowl of fruit will do to invoke gratitude for nature's bounty. I think I will not bow because I would feel silly. After lighting the candles (and the fireplace, if it is chilly), I will pour myself a glass of wine and listen to Andreas Bocelli or the Celtic Minstrels. I think this will fuse philosophical and empirical Taoism for me! Great stuff, Taomeow. I think I will invite a friend to worship with me this evening. It will be a wonderful ritual before dinner.
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I too want to further my Daoist practise but my philosophy on Daoism calls for a religious practise that is consistent with my reality. Florida today is not China 250 BCE, is it? I can't believe that Daoist wisdom would dictate that I should continue to worship deities of ancient China.
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You didn't led me astray. And you didn't cause a controversy. What you started was a timely debate on the form of the Daoist Religion for the modern-day Daoist who rides in a twin-turbo engined car and not on a water buffalo. I think traditional Daoist religious forms are not appropriate for philosophical Daoists like me. I want something that doesn't make me look foolish.
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By other things, I meant heart-moving stuff like natural beauty and inspiring actions of humans and other animals. To "worship" such things doesn't have to be ritualistic practices of traditional Daoism. Once upon a time, as a Daoist, I worshipped the spirit of the valley. After 2000 years, it's time I moved on to worship its beauty.
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Well, it's your fault. Anyway, the discussion is quite challenging. Folks here think that a religious Daoist has to worship Daoist deities and dangerous entities. I never thought you were going in that direction. You said you are a philosophical Daoist and wanted an altar. I am a philosophical Daoist also but I don't want a traditional Daoist altar for worshipping Daoist deities.
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Religious Taoist doesn't necessarily mean of the Wudang or Maoshan type. This is the year 2013. As a modern-day religious Daoist, I don't believe in Chinese vampires hopping about in the night.
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Generally, you are correct and I tend to agree with you until newTaoist wanted an altar. I thought about it and resonated with the idea. An altar gives a dimension of reality to a philosophical approach to Daoism. Perhaps, it is time religious Daoism has a modern face devoid of superstitons. What do you think?
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newTaoist is a philosophical Daoist and wanted an altar. I thought it was a brilliant idea because it would facilitate religious expression for Philosophical Daoism. Traditionally, an altar is for worship of deities or ancentors. I have nothing against worship but can't we have an altar to worship other things?
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I think all the altar suggestions here are for traditional Daoism. What about altars for philosophical Daoists who don't believe in spirits and deities?
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How about be like the body? Why is everyone so disconnected with the body? I think the reason is because we are so caught up with being a psychological entity. The Buddha called this the illusory self.
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K, how about making one's bedroom or bedsit the altar room? Aromatic candles can be placed strategically. I really like this idea. And when a friend comes to visit, it will be magical.
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Taomeow, your three altars seem connected to a scary Daoist practice of the east. Those sects invoke entities from realms in Daoist Hell. I am hoping that newTaoist is thinking of setting up an altar for present-day Daoists like me who find peace in philosophical Daoism. I am thinking of an altar that I can relate to when I spend quiet time with the DDJ. I prefer the lavender or rosemary fragrance of incense and the only immortals of another realm I want when I "pray" are ones like Bach with Glen Gould on the piano. No other entities.
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What do you mean? I am talking about the Tao of dying. This means the Way of dying. No body lasts for ever and each of us has to live in connection with the body. The body knows the Way because it is connected with Nature. Are you connected to the body? If you are, then you are one with the body and vanish as the body checks out and stops breathing forever. This is how I see it. It is like riding. If you know how to ride well, then you are one with the horse. A good rider knows the Tao of riding. If you know how to live in oneness with the body, then you know the Tao of dying.
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I am not talking about your body. I am talking about you. Do you know how to die? Or are you flying this plane till it hits the side of the mountain, riding this barrel till it goes over the waterfall? The point I am getting at, is there a way to live that is in tune with the body? Or are we disconnected with it and even in opposition to it? Even when you are long gone in a coma and the body is checking out, we still would put it on life support. Where is the Tao in all this? Do you get what I am saying?
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I like this. Yes, our "praying" is not praying of the conventional kind. Yes, the connection is there. Can you explain a little about putting philosophy to work? I resonate with this. Meditation and taiji are traditional taoist practises that have appeal in eastern cultures. I want something that makes sense to me in my own modern-day cultural setting. You make sense to me. Please suggest a new way for connecting with the Dao. What does your heart say? If it is not "prayer" and meditation and "chanting", what would be an appropriate way? ,
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I like the incense part but why Lu Dong Bin? What is his philosophy?
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Traditions are always started by somebody. You could be that somebody who feels the need we all have as philosophical daoists. I would prefer religious daoist practises that are consistent to my daoist philosophy which I feel are like yours. So, could we discuss your views about this altar and your need to give religious expression to your daoist philosophy? I am really excited about where this is going to lead us. Thanks for starting this thread.
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Be brave and be first to set up your Taoist altar to serve your own needs as a Philosophical Daoist. We would be glad to contribute ideas and suggestions. You may be starting an altar that other philosophical daoists here could set up also.
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There is nothing wrong with equality as a individual right under the law. It is the sentiment that brands anyone who is not marching in lockstep with everybody else as a bigot and a horror that is troubling. And the very people who has this sentiment would rail against the Chinese Communist Party for trampling on human freedom. Equality under the law is a nice concept. But you need to have the guts and the money to invoke it. Alternative model for what?
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I would love to stay but not if I have to bow to foreign oppression of the kind that China suffered. This forum is like a Chinese Kung Fu Hall but the martial art forms I see here look strange and peculiar. I see foreigners and Chinamen practising this strange form of kung fu. This is all fine and I just want to spar with you guys to test the power of your art form. But everythime I make a move, someone stops me. What's wrong with you, Mr Chi? Are you a straw dog or 倩人εδΈ ?
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How so? Is it the kind of denigration when that British teacher named a Teddy bear Muhamad? Or is it at the level where a Buddha head is used as a doorstop? You seem to be suggesting some kind of a desecration of a holy artifact here. I am not aware that the Tao Te Ching has been appropriated by foreign cultures to become - like the Holy Bible - an object of worship outside China. Please be kind enough to explain how I have denigrated the Tao Te Ching in your eyes. Ok, then do it. By all means read it in any form you wish. All do allow me the same freedom, if you don't mind. Talk with us? Who is us? This is an open forum, isn't it? People from all over the planet come and go in the World Wide Web. I am not aware that I have intruded a private party of Taoist initiates. And what do you mean by talk with us? Is this some gangland code of conduct? The only rules I know when I came in is 1. No foul language and 2. No fighting. You had better clue me in on any additional restrictions. . I read some Chinese but not as good as Dawei or Mr Chi who helps me out. That's good to know. I don't understand why you keep saying I talk down other cultures, etc.. You may want to practise this western liberal value of equality and that is fine. But to impose that value on those like me who don't buy it just isn't fair unless it is a pre-condition for participating in your group. Like I said, if there are rules in this regard, spit it out and be transparent. I would never dream of walking into a muslim prayer hall without taking off my shoes or act like a bull in a china shop in this forum with no regard for sensitivities.
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Let me have a look at Chapter 15 and I will get back to you. I look forward to proving you right and me wrong.
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I would never dream of discriminating anyone. Of course you can discuss it. Anybody can and in anyway they see it. That was my point. But declaring this is off topic or that is off topic, as you had done, is designed to stifle any discussion that is not going your way. I was referring to anyone who doesn't have the mind of an ass. Is that too exclusive?
