sree

If you are right, then there is no problem; not at Sandy Hook Elementary nor at Auschwitz concentration camp. Are you telling me that the reason why the Jews who keep harping on the Holocaust is because they are incapable of loving Hitler? If you are right, then there is something wrong with the Jews. I think we need to be careful about over-simplifying unanswerable questions. It is not that easy to crack the teachings in the Tao Te Ching.

I think the difficulty comes from our notion of non-interference. We just can't seem to get this right. When I saw the picture of that cop kneeling down to help that barefooted homeless guy in Times Square, New York, I would have "let the calf die". Same goes for the killing in Syria: let the calves die". You don't agree? Then let's argue for or against it. Let's find out how out of whack we are in the wisdom department. Of course, there is; otherwise, we won't be studying the Tao Te Ching, this road map out of Hell. I don't think it is a question saving the calf or child. I think it is a question of the set up. Why is life or nature set up this way? I don't think this is an unanswerable question.

Why do you limit yourself to these outcomes? A short answer would be yes. But you need to think out of the box. True but without being brutalized. You get a "D" for this answer.

Mr Chi, what is the meaning of 不仁 as you see it in the following lines? 1. 天地不仁， 2. 以萬物為芻狗。 3. 聖人不仁， 4. 以百姓為芻狗。 Humans and animals are part of the 萬物. And we people are the 百姓. All are the 芻狗. The Tao Te Ching makes no distinction between people and other animals. Non-inteference has universal impartial application. Why do you let the calf die and save the child?

Using western science to Interpret the Tao Te Ching is like putting a pair of tights on an elephant after a full meal.

You have given honest answers. And they prompt more questions that I want to ask. Ok, the spirit of Lao Tze possesses and takes over your body. Why did you select this route to deal with life? Much as I disdain western science, it is a much more powerful belief system that has possessed not just mere individuals but the entirety of mankind. Spiritual cults and sects do not enjoy mainstream acceptance and are dismissed along with the major organized religions as supersititions based on fear and ignorance. If amoralilty is the Way of the Tao Te Ching, then the state of society is neither right nor wrong. One then picks his way through life like an animal in the jungle. One's hunger determines what one must do to satisfy that hunger. Fair enough. Just because you have access to Immortals doesn't give you a free ride. Jesus was also cast into the world as a common man. But why help anybody? Doesn't this run counter to the teaching of amorality? It's a dog eat dog world. If we subscribe to the principle of non-judgment, then we cannot moralize anything and just accept society as it is. If we are trapped, then we either struggle to get out of that trap or succumb and accept our fate without sqawking. The loss of connection with nature is a moral judgment. Who is to say that man is not to exploit nature as he deems fit? Who is to say that man must not subjugate his fellow man? Society is created in our own image which is not different from that of Mother Nature. She has no pity for the weak which she culls without mercy. Likewise, if Mother Nature is weaker than us, we wil suck the life out of her with our technological power and leave her wasted. What is that reason?

Mr Chi, you said that the first four lines above tell us to be impartial. Leave it alone, let it be the way the photographer did instead of saving the calf. Take life as is, the way the video is taken as is. Is this what you mean?

Ok, Mr Chi. Let's pursue this question in Chapter 5. You are suggesting a dichotomy between the morality of the Tao Te Ching and the morality of humankind. This means that if we follow the Way, we become inhuman. We may have to make a choice. As Jesus said to the rich man who wanted to find eternal life, "you serve either God or money, you cannot serve both".

God forbid. Why do you say I am mocking? I am here to listen to what you have to say. Even if I am incredulous of your shamanic claims, I am keeping an open mind to learn more. You did not give answers to some of my questions as follows: 1. How does he (Li Erh aka Lao Tze) teach you? Does he materialize in a séance or is he just a voice in your head? 2. Why is life (or nature) set up this way? Why do animals have to kill and devour one another in the wild? In the same way, like other animals, we humans also "devour" one another in as brutal a fashion in order to survive. We kill each other in wars over territories and resources. We trample on one another to get food, clothing and shelter. Such brutality is caused by the way nature or life is set up. You know the Gods and the spiritual realm. So why don't you tell me? What is the benefit of your experiences of immortal teachers? You said that the trouble is the way society has been based that cause us to be trapped by a lack of wealth without which we have no freedom to practise and cultivate in order to make this world a better place. Why is society based this way? Why do you say you are still trapped despite your spiritual accomplishment from immortal teachers? I am asking sincere questions and not being disrespectful the way the Pharisees were disrespectful of Jesus when they taunted him. Please understand that being ignorant, I can only ask questions like a blind person groping in the dark.

Seems like a full circle from Man (as we are) to Earth to Heaven to Tao back to Man (natural self). Do you agree? We need to eat food, drink water and breathe air. Why can't eating food be as painless as drinking water and breathing air? Why do we have to resort to butality in order to eat? Why must nature be set up this way? I don't get it. It seems as though brutality, replusive as it is, is an anomaly. It goes against my instincts. It just doesn't add up. Not to interfere in the face of horror doesn't sound right. I am not proposing that we should stop lions eating calves. It is a horrible set up. I agree with wu wei and non-interference. Human can only cause harm to Nature. To think that we can do good to Nature is ridiculous. We are messing up the world. Cleaning up after ourselves is the least we can do. But there is something very wrong about the way Nature is set up. To accept thing as they are doesn't seem right.

Are we not animals? Our biology is pretty similar to other mammals. Physical pain is a common denominator. You would react instinctively to that lion attack exactly like that baby buffalo: terror. And your experience would be exactly the same: excruciating pain. So, why this double standard?

Being a lesser mortal, I may have to. But the answer is not hidden from the immortals (like Jeff, Manitou and Flowing Hands) in this forum. I have to keep an open mind and seek knowledge (from them) as you advocated. Where do you stand? Are you in that bandwagon with Jeff and company or just a dumbass like me?

Yes,we certainly should, Mr Chi. That was what I meant to ask. Do you have an opinion on why nature is set up this way? I feel that it is so unnecessary for that little baby buffalo to suffer, and so unnecessary for that lion to be so brutal to get his dinner. Why do we have a body that is vulnerable to diseases and injury? Why do we have to be arrested by Horse Face and Cow Head and taken to 閻 羅 王 ?

It makes a world of a difference to what we accept as right side up or upside down. I am convinced that Charles Manson is nuts. All bets are off now that you have also jumped on the bandwagon along with Manitou. How many more of you out there looking to the Northern Heaven where Jesus resides? Is there anyone else?

This is unbelievable. I am not saying that you are lying. Is there anyone in this forum who accepts your claim? I want to keep an open mind. I need a second opinion, just one person here who buys your story before I question my own sanity. (Ok, Manitou has come forward to back you up at the time of writing this post.) How does he teach you? Does he materialize in a séance or is he just a voice in your head? It seems like greed and politics are what we are: human nature. You see these basic characteristics in all other animals. Brutality is another quality that we humans have. We kill each other by the millions in the same heartless way Mother Nature does it through a tsunami, climatic storm, or terrestrial eruption. Little kids have been gunned down at Sandy Hook Elementary in Connecticut. And instead of facing up to our own brutal nature we talk of evil as though it has nothing to do with us. The Tao Te Ching eschews our feel-good sentiments like love, loyalty and kindness. It condemns our hypocrisy in cultivating these fake qualities. Material attainment is not the goal but the by-product of our greed which is our in-born nature. Greed is also an eternal process of the universe (to use Marblehead’s turn of phrase). There is a greed for life, a greed for knowledge which, as Marblehead pointed out, is also a greed for wisdom. The difficulty stems from trying to be what we are not. We are naturally greedy and driven by desire. Stopping greed is like refusing to breathe or go to the bathroom. Apparently, life is a zero sum game: some win, some lose. We prey on one another. Eat and be eaten. Watch this: Why is life set up this way?

Hello Everyone! My name is Sree, and I've been following the teachings of the Daode Jing for about a year now, but I still run into situations in which I question myself about what would be the right action to take, or rather to take no action at all. In order to make it easier for myself to understand the Tao better and help out others here, I am going to start bringing my questions to the forums for easy input. Thanks!

How about this? <iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/PamNYAvDlFU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

ok, et. Here is something for you to watch. PamNYAvDlFU

Are you saying that what is regarded by everyone as the Tao Te Ching is not the real thing? I thought Lao Tze is a myth, a fictitious figure, and the Tao Te Ching is a compilation of literary works crafted by more than one person over a period of time in days gone by. You are doing fine judging from how well you are received and held in high regard in this forum. This is the 21st century and you need to speak to a different worldview even though human nature is unchanged. Christians believe that Jesus will come again and we can be quite sure he would not be riding into town on a donkey. If it is so difficult, why do it? Amassing wealth, although not easy by any means, is doable and millions are able to do it through fair means or foul. Health and wealth are all that matter in order to get through this life without misery. If you don't agree, why not?

Seems to me that this only work if there is guilt, when there is a troubled conscience, a sense of doubt and low self-esteem. You can peel the onion on your own or, if you have the money, have the therapist do it for you professionally. Do-it-yourself analysis never work. There are inspirational speakers who can get you to feel better about yourself. The Tao Te Ching is not about self-help. Traditionally, in China, the guys who would pick up this Classic are pretty sharp dudes on the way to the imperial exams.

And I am fortunate that you stepped up. So, "eternal", to you, is the lifespan - from the beginning to the ending - of the universe which is the totality of existence as defined by western science. By your definition of eternal, the above processes are perceived events (as defined by western science) within the context of a comprehensible reality. And you said that wisdom is the understanding of what you called "eternal processes" like cause and effect, conservation of energy, birth and death, etc.. I suppose we can throw in gravity, electromagnetism, and even life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. As Mr Chi said, most people would like to have their own interpretations, of the Tao Te Ching, which is fine. And in this instance, you have your own interpretation, of what Chinese wisdom is, which is also fine.

Be arrogant. If you are wise, you have the right to strut. Those politicians are crammed with the same knowledge that they conscientiously applied over and over again resulting in repeated mistakes from Washington to Obama. None of them ever learn. No wisdom. I could buy that. Never mind the understanding of it but just name me one eternal process of the universe. While you are at it, please define eternal.

Yes, the way one harms you by stealing your identity.

Mr Chi, shall we now study Chapter 36 and 61 to find out how Stosh found sex in those Chapters? They could be Wang Bi Versions corrupted by hedonistic translators like Gia Fu-Feng.

Mr Chi, thank you for clarification. I now have both the Wang Bi and Received Versions for my review. You have been a wonderful source of information. 陳鼓應 is a strange name for a scholar. I suppose Gia Fu-Feng was an "outsider". He suffered and died from lung disease as a result of a wanton life among pot- smoking hippies in America. He has done more harm to the Tao Te Ching than western science by posing as a scholar in Chinese philosophy.