CloudHands

1) It is very possible we self-destruct. 2) Nature, yes but Human nature, what is it ? that's the question. We proved to be polymorphous.

Hi LimA ! Evolution, hurts, troubles, riots, wars reveal something. The question that have us to take different sides is... is it a cough or does it need treatment ? To me it reveals troubles, diseases, but what I consider so are not necessarily yours. To me, high rates of psychological disorders, penitential population, cancers and autism explosions, incredible richness unfair distribution, extreme valorization of materialism, competition and success are not signs of a healthy humanity. For someone else it could be homosexuality, immigration, mixed marriage, etc... I can live with it and if I don't expect to see these things change in a major way in my lifespan yet I see these as signs of an imbalanced specie not a normal satisfying state that has to and will stay so anyway (can get much worse too).

A great alias

For the story Parkour was invented by the Yamakasi team in the city I grew up, in 1997 I was 11. Then it became a movie, then parkour, a worldwide phenomena. Original Context. I won't blame you if you shut the sound.

it's goes on and on Hampi has been a tremendous experience for me emotionally. It's the point I moved from external hard martial art and hardening attitude to internal cultivation, subtle listening. Truly a gift. 2 months after I started tai chi chuan. Thanks to L. Time : 2010 and 2011 (twice in 3 months) Tradition : following the flow / returning to the source depending on the time.

A state of ego dissolution experienced permanently is what you're talking about ?

It's a decision a child can possibly make but the weight of the responsibility is like a punishment for him and half of the "parents". I'm not my father's genetic offspring but to me the filiation is where the caregiver is. So the person that raised me is without a doubt my father. I truly can't imagine it otherwise in my case. Somethings that could inflect that is when was the child dropped out of is first "family" it's a game changer. Without questioning him, does the child manifest attachment, wish to return to or discover his biological parents ? That's a better question. Culture over nature, for the human I'd say... definitely more than 50%. Our nature without culture ? Digg for feral childs.

Besides agreeing with the idea of a progression, you somewhat quit the idea of uninterrupted alternating equivalent in power yin/yang phases : growth an decay. Maybe I'm wrong but the way I understand daoism, nothing goes nowhere but in appearance. Being and non being are ultimately perfect in a stable but dynamic model. You have nowhere else to go than where you are already. Humanity keeps all its component as they are, only apparent fluctuations.

As I said it doesn't solve the "why?" but "why?" is maybe not a fair question for humans. Doubts are as healthy than certainties relieve. But that's an answer. A good one. Damn.

Rephrasing. Perfection is accessible only by repetition. Perfection is accessible only by repetition. Perfection is accessible only by repetition. Perfection is accessible only by repetition. Perfection is accessible only by repetition. Perfection is accessible only by repetition. Perfection is accessible only by repetition. Perfection is accessible only by repetition. Perfection is accessible only by repetition. Perfection is accessible only by repetition. Ok that was for the humour part. Now let's make "opposite" forces enter the room. Actually there are two problematics in my questioning. The first one, wu-wei, has been often discussed here and is well documented. The second is, as a specie do we have a quest or is life just and a collective and individual experience ? Both are not completely mutually exclusive. A quest can be an experience. If you have a look at how Dao developed nature, it's seems there is no goal for no specie but a collective expansion, evolution with no particular wish of result. Mass extinctions are not a sign of particular care. That's also in agreement with the texts (straw-dogs and so). Now if you look at the Human specie, it seems to be a search for a meaning in all that. In every culture I have in mind, there is a need for an explanation, an exploration, intellectual and spiritual successful realization. It takes different forms according to the related cultures but the "why are we here ?" is not answered by the "how to live best". If there is a search, does it mean that there is something to search ? I found answers on a personal level to these questions (Be). So in a fractal, daoist perspective, the answer should be the same for the other levels. One can be responsible only for himself. I'm still not fully convinced because... what's a body is not the sum of its parts. Mass of people don't act like individual persons. 1+1 can be 3, things evolve into structures that are not equivalent in proprieties, and so on. The swinging between these polarities is not a dilemma for me, but that's a intellectual enigma I'm still pondering.

It doesn't matter but... Thank you. It's quite something to have the possibility to ask and be answered. Whatever the importance of the question

...and it's not my thread btw

It's ok to derail on illuminaties sucking out human's juice. I'm not very aware of it...

I cheerfully to offer you to re-read the previous post dear Brian. It's more related to abuse of weakness of situation and globally human emancipation, education, environmental toxicity physical and spiritual. But not persecution... at least in countries like yours or mine.

First I have got to say that when I picked up my steadiest translation of the Lao Tzu, the page I had immediately under my eyes was chapter XXIX. Second, of course I understand what you say, of course I feel (very?) close to it and also of course it's not about neither owning the world or trying to make it perfect and maybe not even better. Nobody is able to know the effect of what he does on the long run. Of course it's not about one person being the truth for everyone. Of course there is and will be ups and downs and maybe eventually I'll join MH and you and others in that happy fatalist vision (that I humbly respect) but (and it's a matter of pride) not before 40 ! Yet, as human, we have been a long run. We know that we used to live without possessing anything then not much (few tools, fire, some instruments) but it made life became much easier. Then we developed agriculture and we started to have stocks and count on it, some had much of it some had less. Then, gaining power over others, some had been in such favorable positions they had to justify such a difference. They invented God (or it could be Dao, if you want) to justify their wealth and power or territory (and there are still countries claiming that a piece of earth is god gave to them). Now we know that regicide casts no spell on its people. The people that wrote the DDJ still believed that the Emperor was ruling by the force of heaven and earth, it looked steady but it have been proved wrong. I mean the principle, the major idea related to cosmology, philosophy, neidan in the DDJ... are pure gift to me. Now when it comes to politic, clearly that outdated. These guys had now ideas that in the future most of the more powerful countries would be democratic (or relatively close to it, you US proved it bringing Trump to the presidency !). What about making a population ignorant when it's supposed to choose its rulers ? To keep a country stable when a King inherit a kingdom... why not, it's wisely thought when you go wars afters wars (warring states era). I believe people can learn and improve thus I'm often contradict. And if there is something called free will it's probably something related to the spirit ability to think outside of the highways and have the courage/confidence to assume it. The idea behind all that is that humanity is going where we human choose to go. And the humanity's body it's certainly not 0K. Out of rage and lack of knowledge we can go fascist or worst or maybe move toward a more enlightened civilization like it has been, century after century, I dare to believe it, on the way. Actually it's about what is Wu Wei we talking about, I think the idea is never force anything but it does not mean you have to shut up and accept things you despise, everything is moving and we are both objects and forces. I think my words are not too far from my thoughts... please don't ban me for blaspheme !

Innocent light humour. I get it.

You did that sculpture ? That's a nice peace I'm no specialist of antique Egypt, would you comment for us ?

Ok I'll try to put it out of the malformed initial abstract idea. So I'll give you an exemple... that will please anarchists The Monitorial System. It's a school system that has been used in France since 1747 for almost a century with great results. Avantages : 1 teacher for up to 800 students develop autonomy, responsibility students learn to work together, advanced help beginners (and it changes each lesson) students learn significantly faster It stopped in 1833 on order of the minister François Guizot, for several reasons : Children learnt the program too fast, so they finished their grade too early and ended up idling in the streets. The school teacher were priests. The importance of their role was dramatically decreased since Children managed by themselves. And so... It was formation of independent spirits vs education of children (transmit the rules of the society). So when I read so often spiritual persons, bums, going the way of "that's the law" or "life is fair, don't do anything" it makes me skeptical... I believe we human can do better but it won't happen with these "life is perfect". It is in a sense I understand too, on the purely mystical level it is. But it does not mean that at the concrete/practical level things are set up well enough. Beware to the Confucian reading of the Lao Tsu. There are plenty exemples of fights for more justice that were illegals nobody would decently question their legitimacy today... So I'm still swinging between these 2 poles the meditative CH, like that sets me in a state of peace and contentment and the more rational or concrete CH that thinks that the human worlds is so in-achieved and unfair. Writings these words, I know I have my answers in me. Yes of course to treat but with Tai Chi and Qi Gong, get some level then help spread it. But never get satisfied in front of injustice and horror.

I was re-reading the OP, it's actually very badly framed probably because my ideas were not so clear. But I did not find better words to keep my ideas abstracts. You're allowed to bend the frame if needed, as I wasn't so sure, it's poplar made. poplar (n.) mid-14c., from Anglo-French popler, from Old French poplier (13c., Modern French peuplier) -> "peut plier" means "can be bent"

That quote popped up in my mind this morning. Cheers. The others quotes very also very related to the subject I'm pondering, things I got to reread later... Thanks

Is donation for tdb still possible ?

The metaphor of humanity as a body as its limits I aware of that but some may have thoughts related to the ideas behind the images. Maybe that's even a wrong question. But I know nobody that's purely neutral. Everyone has its own inflections and is pushing its own direction and some engage more than others. Even make efforts to be still is a response to a situation. Its a bit like hinayana/mahayana paradigms in Buddhism. The questions I'm pondering about is : 1. Is humanity sick ? not at the individual level but as a functioning body. 2. If it is, and one as a opinion about the disease(s) should one try to cure it. Whatever is level of implication. I have my own answers about it... I think humanity is sick because it's suffering, but I'm not sure if suffering is a disease or a factor of motivation proper to our specie. Like no other specie has been through such an evolution, treasures of ingenuity to deal with the environment. Now that surviving to the environment seems to be much less a difficulty we have to survive to ourselves as our technology is a threat to our environment and the lifestyle we developed mostly (I think) does not lead much to inner-peace or self-fulfillment blooming. On a personal practical level I know what I'm after, my own blooming which can be contagious as a smile or powerful as an example. Now as a democratic citizen it could go beyond that as elected governments make choices that many try to inflect. I have done that in the past, as a free teacher or as a provider of information/questions, I do that no more mostly because I have not many certitudes, but I don't look for it really, I could. ...but I'd like to enrich my thinking with yours.

So if I understand you well, your participation to the humanity's health would be trying to not poison it with adding your personal troubles/regulate it like a buffer. Is that correct ?