takaaki
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Everything posted by takaaki
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Which Chapter is this? I would like to look at the Chinese text before I reply. Is that ok with you?
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Scholastic Study of the Received Version of the Tao Te Ching.
takaaki replied to ChiDragon's topic in 道家学说
Good question. I would also like to know what dishes Dawei's wife will be preparing. What about your wife? What dishes will she be preparing? -
Which is worse? Not lending a hand to help a little girl lying in the street in China or pushing a man onto the tracks of an oncoming train and watching him die in America? I am not dissing any culture. I am curious to know how you think and form judgments in the tradition of Confucius.
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Forgive me for not pointing my finger directly at the moon. Let me rephrase my question. I am not a Taoist. I can throw the Dao into the rubbish bin. You say you are not a Taoist, can you throw the Dao into the rubbish bin? And I mean, chucking all that crap attributed to Laozi aka Li Erh.
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I was not belittling him. I was belittling you, for want of a better, inoffensive word. John Chang didn't know and couldn't explain the things he could do. He came up with his spin based on his cultural background and a mix of Chinese Chi magic. You are impressionable and remind me of a Chi story. After ten years of teaching his disciple at his West Lake temple in Hangzhuo, the Tao Master told his disciple, "It is time for you to leave. Don't return until you have realized the power of the Tao Te Ching." Twenty years passed and one day, while the Tao Master was seated in meditation by the lake, his disciple ran up to him and announced excitedly, "Master, master, I have realized the power of the Tao Te Ching." "And what is this power you have realized?" asked the Tao Master. "Watch this," the disciple replied as he stepped out onto the lake and walked on its watery surface. When he was way out, he turned around, and, standing on the water, beamed at the old man, "What do you think, Master?" "You spent all that time to learn how to do that? Why don't you just use a frigging boat?"
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What is your point? Can you clarify?
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I am not a Taoist. I can throw the Tao Te Ching in the rubbish bin. You are not a Taoist, you say. Can you throw the Tao Te Ching in the rubbish bin?
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Of course there is "which one". Cross any border and the change in the place is dramatic in terms of language, social norms and values. Both capitalism in the US and communism in the PRC are as individualistic. In the US, everyone eats at the buffet table laden with food and you are on your own: you grab what you can and it's each man for himself. Americans call this capitalism. In the PRC, everyone eats in the dining hall all seated down nicely as the food is doled out on every man's plate. The American-style free-for-all takes place in the kitchen and the chock full pantry where the guys in charge - from the Central Committee in Bejing right down to the Headman in Menghai County - are. Americans call this corruption. I think I'd better have "American Taoist" copyrighted and go after anyone messing around with it for trademark infringement. I see billions of dollars in the picture and need to protect the brand.
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Perhaps, it is because of a your lack of receptivity on account of low I.Q.. I have said what I truly feel and this is expected to upset you and cause disharmony even thought you asked for it. It is uncomfortable for a Chinese to be brutally frank. Westerners have no qualms about being offensive in social interaction. Yes, John Chang is a Taoist. The reason is because his brain is fried like Colonel Sander's Kentucky Chicken. A Taoist is a person whose brain works like a computer hard drive with a Taoist operating system (TOS). You are a Taoist, Dawei, and you are proud of it. And there is nothing wrong with that. John Wu was a Catholic. He was a person whose brain worked like a computer hard drive with a Catholic operating system (IOS).
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The Catholic Church does a lot of good works among the sick, the poor and the uneducated all over the world. The US Government has its marvellous Peace Corp. I suppose nothing would have been done also if these two organizations didn't have their "teachings" and the money to do all that. True charity is invisible; when it has acted, its tracks can be seen on the ground of heartlessness.
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Very good, sir. You've got it nailed down right on the button like a straight-shooting American. The American Taoist does not practise anything because his life is a natural movement of inborn spontaneity - no acting according to politically-correct sentiments, no rehearsed good manners, no responses conditioned by fear of breaking the law (e.g. Muhamad Ali's refusal to fight Vietcongs). The Chinese scholar is the guiding light of society. The sage, whose life is an instinctive movement of perfection, has no need to practise anything. If Jesus had been Chinese, I would grant him the respect accorded to a Chinese scholar. Therefore, all western translators like (Watts, Legge, Wilhelm) of the Tao Te Ching are western intellectuals. all Chinese translators (like John Wu, Lin Yutang, Gia Fu Feng) of the Tao Te Ching are Chinese intellectuals. To set the record straight, Mao Zedong (who was a Chinese intellectual) destroyed the works of intellectuals (but not the Chinese classics) because they bred superstitions that hold back social progress.
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The reason for not translating Dao is because it has appeal as an alternative for western atheists. John Wu was a Catholic and to him, Dao, makes a nice Chinese name for God.
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Scholastic Study of the Received Version of the Tao Te Ching.
takaaki replied to ChiDragon's topic in 道家学说
You are a very dedicated teacher, and I would like to offer my deepest respects and wishes for the Chinese New Year. Can you clear the air for us with regard to the meaning of the Year of the Water Snake? And also, advise us how to greet each other appropriately for the New Year. What is the appropriate greeting in Chinese (accompanied by English translation) for our western Taoists (including Dawei) of the English version of the Tao Te Ching? And what is the appropriate greeting in Chinese (accompanied by English translation) for fellow Chinese scholars of the Chinese version of the Tao Te Ching? -
Yes, greed does invite unnecessary risks. Unwillingness to share is something else. The western mind perceives existence in terms of self among others and all are connected. My Chinese mind perceives existence in terms of self unconnected to others. Your bad fortune has nothing to do with my good fortune. Each answers to Heaven for his lot. It is not my place to act on behalf of Heaven to effect change in your life. Non-interference. Each has his place. This is the basis of China's foreign policy which the western world does not understand.
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Scholastic Study of the Received Version of the Tao Te Ching.
takaaki replied to ChiDragon's topic in 道家学说
Thought-to-thought would apply to western thinking which is the process of mentation at a very simplistic level as in me, you, here, there, eat, this, sit, there, chop, chop. Classical Chinese thinking, which is metaphorical, is very complex in comparison and would need a concept-to-concept approach. (This is why Chinese scholars love the classics so much. It's like the enjoyment of fine cuisine by gourmands. Even Shakespeare, which is not much better than street entertainment, in my opinion, does not come close.) So, when a translation is made, one would begin trying to match (classical Chinese) concept to (western) thought and ends up fitting (vernacular Chinese) thought to (western) thought. -
Your question is not complete. The good question should be be framed as follows: "What is Daoism to you?"
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It will come, eventually. Perhaps, not in your lifetime. You will be famous too. Look at Van Gogh. He died poor and even lost an ear.
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Scholastic Study of the Received Version of the Tao Te Ching.
takaaki replied to ChiDragon's topic in 道家学说
You really want me to say what I truly feel and not the words of one who kneel? The Dao De Jing is the creation of astounding human clarity about the truth - what one truly feels. It speaks out not only about life but more importantly about ourselves, and meant for true action to bring about a better world. Not even Genghis Khan or Emperor Qin would be up to the task. The English translations are just lovely poems. Are you a man of action, Dawei? I don't mean playing soccer or drinking wine. -
Maybe you should make that extended post because somehow you strike me as being honest without any clue as to what honesty is (i.e. no postering). I was working halfway through my reply to one of your posts explaining being an anarchist and responsibility but also decided to hold back and stop when Aaron became insistent that I was out to upset the apple cart here at Tao Bums. You got that part right about materialism but I need to defend myself on the part about greed. I would like to emphasize that, firstly, the American Taoist is neither Taoist nor American in the accepted sense of those words; and , secondly, I am not touting American Taoism which has nothing to do with the American Taoist who follows no "isms", no doctrines, no lore that can be told. It is not possible to perceive greed without the greedy person. It is the action or behaviour that is being judged as one of greed; otherwise, greed as a pure idea has no meaning. So, why is greed associated with Americans when, as you say, it is a universal trait? I never saw Americans as greedy. Successful, yes; driven by passion to create, definitely. It is this creative passion that distinguishes the successful American, and nowhere else in the world, except America, is this quality so celebrated and admired as a cultural characteristic. It is what gives America style. And the Dao De Jing, to me, speak to this style of living – your Way - at the height of human excellence in doing what you love. It has nothing to do with acquiring wealth as a primary goal. But what about the money, the net worth amounting to billions of dollars that always seem to go with the territory of success? What about it? Is this the problem?
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Scholastic Study of the Received Version of the Tao Te Ching.
takaaki replied to ChiDragon's topic in 道家学说
Although your question is not meant for me, I would like to answer it. As someone who can read the Chinese text of the Dao De Jing, I can categorically say that the Chinese version is fundamentally different in meaning from the English version. Mind you, this doesn't imply that all Chinamen who can read Chinese agree with each other on the meaning in the Chinese version. Some of them are western-educated, live in the west among westerners, assimilated into western cultures and have western values. These are the Chinese, like Gia Fu Feng, John Wu, and Lin Yutang, who played a part in creating the English version. For me, the Chinese version has a different message to the English one. And one has to be thoroughly Chinese to understand this viewpoint of mine. A western professor, regardless of his scholarship, has no idea what the world is to the Chinese mind that could compose the Dao De Jing. Gia Fu Feng and John Wu, if they are alive, would disagree with me. -
Scholastic Study of the Received Version of the Tao Te Ching.
takaaki replied to ChiDragon's topic in 道家学说
I don't think any human being can avoid acting off values. Even machines, which are programmed by humans, act off values of the human programmers. There is no such thing as objectivity. All viewpoints are subjective and conditioned by the observer unless he is a wooden chair. If he gave examples, he would be nailed to the cross for saying what he truly feels. Let's stick to words of those who kneel. -
Yes, I do see what you are clarifying. One refers to the states of the Tao while the other refers to states of the person. The Common Version is pointing to desire as the determining factor in seeing the manifested world that hides the mystery behind it. This Version could have Buddhist influence and it makes sense in terms of Buddhist logic, if you accept that. The Received Version is pointing to Tao as the determining factor in causing the manifestation of the world that we perceive. What is the message here?
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If we are to be scholarly rigorous, we need to observe the protocols of scientific inquiry and be clinically exacting. This is to ensure that our undertaking is professional and stays that way. No spin, no quackery. To begin, I would like to examine Line 1. 1. 道可道，非常道。 1. Tao that can be spoken is not the eternal Tao. The above English translation has been accepted in the western world; yet, it doesn't say what the Chinese text says. The word "tao" is not an English word but anglicized Chinese i.e. made English in form. Correct translation should be complete as follows: 1. The Way that can be spoken is not the eternal Way. The above, although still not consistent with the meaning of the Chinese text, is at least in proper English. This correction has significant importance in eliminating a major distortion of the Tao Te Ching by westerners in the English-speaking world. Please comment.
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Scholastic Study of the Received Version of the Tao Te Ching.
takaaki replied to ChiDragon's topic in 道家学说
My guess as to why the book is question was not translated was a lack of interest to do so by westerners who, I feel, can translate anything from Chinese regardless of the accuracy of the final product. Academic studies of the Dao De Jing by Chinese scholar are pretty involved and technically complex. Only the Chinese would find such classical Chinese studies of interest at the linguistic level. Westerners have got what they want - the captivating English translation of the Dao De Jing in poetic form. They would much prefer to study the profusion of possible meanings behind the English version. -
I can see the difference in punctuation between the Received Version and the Common Version, but the general message of Chapter One has not fundamentally changed. Both versions are like the faces of the same woman with different shades of lipstick and eye-shadow. It's still the same face. Am I wrong?
