JustBHappy

I haven't had the opportunity to heal people besides myself but I've had great success with my orphan cats. One of them was dragging its right rear leg. I took it to half a dozen vets, had many xrays taken and nobody could help. One of the vets sent me to the local University vet hospital saying they were experts on neurological issues. Still no success, nothing worked. So I started doing qi gong treatments on the cat. The result ---> 100% success. Absolutely nothing wrong with the cat's leg now and you would never know there was an issue. I also made great progress healing it's eye. I think one of the sick locals tortured him and stuck a needle or something similar in his eye. It's not fully recovered, but it's about 80% better. Hopefully one day I will have the juice to fully removed the damage, but for now I'm happy to see it has shrunken dramatically. I have offered to help a few of my friends with various health issues, but none of them are interested in having a qi gong treatment from a waigouren.

I like ChunYi Lin's take on practice and think it applies perfectly well in this discussion. Good, Better, and Best. Do Zhan Zhuang at the level you are ready to practice at and rejoice that you are doing something positive. In any practice there is always room for improvement and ways to increase the effectiveness, but doing a practice is still better than not doing a practice. Keep in mind though that body structure in Zhan Zhuang is extremely important and is NOT intuitive or even natural feeling for beginners. Find a competent master to put you in the correct position before committing yourself to long practice times to avoid causing harm. Good -----> doing the practice, even if your mind is not home Better -----> doing the practice while using a single 'crutch' in other words a single object of attention Best -----> relaxing into awareness and not fixating on any object of awareness. In short NonMeditation and NonDistraction.

I agree. It's important to really understand that there's nothing wrong with us. The majority of people in this rat race are zombies. Being sensitive, and intelligent enough to limit or avoid things that agitate the mind or take us away from our hearts is a positive thing. It's just that we live in an insane society, in which the sane will often appear insane. Being disconnected from your heart is a sickness no matter what percentage of the population has it. Being addicted to stimulation, and deaf and blind to your surroundings is also a sickness. It's not easy, but we need to all be mindful that what society considers 'normal' is actually quite neurotic and the few that manage to stay awake are the healthy ones.

It seems to me that many great masters not only live a long life, but also enjoy excellent health from their practice. I think for any practice touted as increasing longevity you will find examples of people who both prove and disprove it's effectiveness. For me, I was sold when I saw first hand the limitless well of energy a great master can have. The master was around 60 and I was 38 with 20 years of martial experience and I simply could not keep up and was dying to go sit down. Every single day he gets up early and walks, and walks and walks and I've yet to see any student keep up and match his practice. It wasn't until a few years later that I started experiencing a little taste of how it feels when the channels open up in the legs and waist and walking becomes blissful and effortless. There are truly some internal benefits in Bagua that could increase ones longevity and quality of life. Although this is true, we can't ignore all the other factors in the equation just because we practice Bagua. There are hereditary, diet, lifestyle, and environmental factors that could easily shorten ones life expectancy.

Personally all these sidetracks are interesting, but I would prefer to see this thread be purely about Flying Pheonix Chi Kung. If I was king, all the diet, fasting, and others would be axed, or broken off to another thread so we could keep this FP thread going strong. It's a great resource, many great tips for people practicing this Chi Kung. Seems kind of silly in my opinion to add all this extra nonsense on it. If Master terry states that a certain diet, herb, or fasting is an integral part of FP then that's one thing, but what I see happening here is something else entirely.

In the beginning, one should walk in a huge circle. This is the best way for gradually strengthening, stretching/opening, and habituating the body to circle walking in a safe manner. This point is very important. So this means you start out walking a circle with 20-25 or more steps. Then after some time you decrease the steps. Gradually you work your way towards walking the circle in 8 steps. Once the body is ready, you can turn a circle with 6, 4, or even 2 steps as in some changes, but don't try these until you are ready and have the instruction of a compassionate teacher that cares about your well being. To walk a bigger circle, you simply step with a smaller angle on the outside foot. The inside foot doesn't change, the size is set from the angle of the outside foot. You may also notice that the same line is used as a guideline for the next step.

Ok, so now time for the inside foot. To walk with the optimum rooting, power, and balance and to make sure that no damage is done to the body, the inside foot should not cross the line coming out from the heel at about a 45 degree angle. The inside foot draws up to the outside foot, then with the heels together you rotate the toes/ball out and step in a straight line. The hsing-i players will recognize this step/stance, in fact the hands are similar also, but in Bagua the upper body is torqued toward the center of the circle. It's extremely rare to see this guideline being followed, and sadly it's extremely important for taking care of the knees. The most common mistakes are crossing over with the inside foot or pointing the toes toward the center of the circle. This first one puts both knees in bad positions, destroys the root, and slows down the stepping. The other common mistake is turning the inside toes toward the center of the circle. This creates a dramatic 'cross step' which is a huge weakness from a martial standpoint and is torture on the knees as well as extremely slow.

I'm a simpleton and have found that a low cushion is best, so I use a yoga mat. Just roll it up loosely, then unroll it halfway. The legs have a nice surface to rest on and your behind has a lift to get it a little higher than your knees. It's also light and easily transported.

Yeah some great Bagua masters on that vid for sure! I don't think I'd recommend for beginners to walk like anyone in that video though. Crawl before you walk, walk before you fly! So I busted out photoshop and made some diagrams to help explain my version of safe, rooted, and quick stepping. Keep in mind some basics like keeping the heel down on the rear foot, and brushing/rubbing the ankle/leg with each and every step. Ok, so the first one is stepping with the outside foot. To stay grounded and save your knees, it's important to not step over the line formed by the heel-toe of the inside foot:

Good stuff. Thanks for coming and opening the discussion Jax. How much is there to really say about nonMeditation and nonDistraction? It's quite true, there isn't really much to say or talk about other than clearing up wrong views. Along those lines, there is a difference between the public teachings, ceremonies, puja's and empowerments and the actual pointing out or direct introduction. This is not to say that one couldn't get it from an empowerment, but it's not as common. It's strange to me that people spend so much time, energy and money getting empowerments yet have no practice, or personal connection to a lama. Great example of spiritual materialism.

Looks like the link just got wacked. http://mumonkan.org/resources/Jackson.aspx

Mythmaker I wish i could. While there are plenty of videos online of good Liang and Cheng practitioners I have yet to see any that strictly follow the guidelines that have been such a jewel for myself and others. I will keep my eyes open and post them here when I see them or if my teacher(s) ever decide to open up I will post their vids.

Ok then.... If you say so. Huge difference between John chang and Clyman in my opinion. Clyman is actively teaching, making dvd's, and has been making claims and demo's of his qi gong for many years for the purpose of making money. I'll give you one thing.... You are very persistent. hehe

Facepalm. This whole drama is getting silly, but strangely entertaining in a sick way. How much is Clyman paying you? Are you Clyman? Why not simply show your skills and collect your $$$$$ ? There's really nothing to be gained from these threads. It's clearly beyond the 'baffle em with bs' stage. Show the skeptics your skills, collect your money, pass go, and start buying hotels all over the board. Then we all bow down to Gary Clyman's superChi and you can get on with your life and raise the price of your dvd's and books!

Don't need to, the videos are quite clear. I looked into studying with him years ago and saw the same bright red warning flags. If people practice like that, the chance of knee problems is extremely high. If one is going to be living and learning in Taipei, there are much better teachers available in my opinion, but like I said it depends on what your goals are and what your trying to learn. For me, I have no questions for him and no desire to learn and emulate his style. The proof is in the pudding, if you're into it then do it, and see how your knees feel or try walking the circle like that and see how rooted you are. Just watching He Jingan and his students take those huge long steps twisting the knee out, then pushing all their weight onto it makes me cringe. Knees are not made to used in that way. Great for the young kids doing external wushu, but certainly not internal Bagua in my opinion. I have spent the last 2 1/2 decades training hard and seeking out internal masters in the east and the west. I have paid the price and reaped the rewards of living in Asia, trained with many 'masters' and learned many different methods and techniques. I've seen more than my fare share of charlatans. I know what works from my direct experience and hope to save others from wasted years and damaged knees. I am no master, and may never be one, I have a high high line for what I consider to be a master (if it wasn't entirely obvious by now! ). My main teacher has been practicing daily for over 45 years and I've never seen anyone close to being able to move and fight like him or generate such effortless internal power but he doesn't even consider himself a master! He has taught me the stepping method that heals my knees, opens up my leg channels and gives me a moving root like I've never thought possible. If you don't agree with my contributions to this thread, that's fine. If a few people get some benefit from my experience and avoid knee problems then it's all good. Try out the 'He Jinghan' method for yourself and see how it works for you. For me personally, if I was inclined towards Yin style Bagua, I would find a different teacher. Yin style can be extremely powerful as evident from He JinBao and others. While his stepping is quite different from what I train, he clearly has it working for him. It's quite obvious in all his work that the authentic martial lineage has been preserved. Quite a contrast from He Jingan from what I see. For someone into famous teachers, he would be a good option in my opinion. For every famous master you see on youtube, there are many more quietly living their lives and teaching a few serious students purely for the love of the art and desire to keep a living lineage from dying. These are the ones in my experience who take the time to really teach the nuts and bolts of their system, as opposed to the famous masters teaching quick, expensive seminars.

In my opinion He Jinghan misses the mark on many points. He disregards quite a few extremely important guidelines. All one has to do to is watch him in action or look at his static postures to see. If you like what see and you and want to train hard to end up like this, then by all means knock yourself out. He seems like a great guy and he loves to cater to the foreign market. He has an English book out, and travels around teaching foreigners. One could certainly learn a lot from him, but if you didn't know better would also pickup some bad habits. Bring an extra set of knees along with you, you will need them and forget about gaining any martial skill. Take a look at these: Great way to destroy your knees! Take a huge step and turn your toe out (Bai Bu) then put weight on your poor knee in this position. Yikes! Here is his interpretation of circle walking. He's got the qua locked up and full of tension. Absolutely no shift of the qua for each step. No rooting like this, no martial power, and no internal energy. Any turn from this would require the twist of the knee and the ankles instead of the qua, which is another great way of damaging your knees. The qua needs to do the turning, the knees need to remain in straight alignment or they will be damaged. The knee is meant to move the lower leg up and down, not to twist it. Once again, any time you twist the knee incorrectly and then put weight on it you're asking for knee problems. The correct way is to use your qua to turn and twist which requires extreme flexibility of the qua both inward and outward. This way you don't hurt your knees, and you have a solid continuous connection with your root at all times. The root/internal energy does not transfer through twisted knees. Absolutely no grounding in his circle walking. I guess it all depends on your goals and what your looking to learn.

Yes, it can be hard on the knees, but you will find that if you train correctly it will strengthen and heal the knees. I fully believe that it was the circle walking that has healed my knees from years of kung fu and skiing. The incorrect practice of Bagua is extremely damaging to the knees, but correctly done it actually opens up the leg channels and heals the knees. Sadly, many 'masters' have incorrect form and are passing on a lineage that is harmful to the knees. High level 'masters' that for all but a few would be regarded as the best of the best. This is one reason why I don't care so much about names and the meaningless ego trip of studying under a famous master. The bragging rights and over-inflated ego will do little to repair the damage done to your body. Keep the stance high until you have developed the extreme flexibility in the ankles/feet and the qua that is required to keep correct form while stepping. Practice walking up and down (backwards) on ramps and slowly increase the angle as your ankle flexibility improves. The qua literally needs to opened up, and turned in, beyond what most people can do. There is a whole set of specific exercises that prepare the body for Bagua practice. Sadly, it's rare to find a teacher that knows them, and most students aren't interested in this type of training, but in my experience, they are priceless. Once the ankles/feet and qua become more flexible you can start lowering your stance. Weight should NEVER transferred onto a knee that is twisted, torqued, bent incorrectly, or injury will be inevitable, especially if you're walking hundreds or thousands or circles a day. It's a little difficult to explain the correct stepping online. If I get some time I may fire up photoshop and try to make a few simple diagrams. The method is very precise. If practiced correctly I guarantee that it is not harmful and is even beneficial to the body. Of course it important to not over-train and be patient in the developing the flexibility, structure, and technique of circle walking. It takes years to learn how to walk correctly. If the knees start hurting, then it's time to stop. Let them heal, and examine what went wrong. The most common stepping mistake I see is turning the inner foot towards the center of the circle. This is a guaranteed way of damaging ones knees, but sadly it's very common. The second most common is over-stepping/turning with the outside foot. The toe should never break the line formed by the heel-big toe of the inner foot. These are guidelines for circle walking, which for a serious student will take up the majority of the daily practice. The changes will often break these rules and should be done carefully or not at all until the circle walking has sufficiently strengthened and stretched the body. Straight line stepping needs to be practiced before attempting to circle walk. One of my main teachers has the students walk back and forth in a straight line for 20-30 minutes every single day regardless of how many years they have been training. He of course is right there practicing and leading them. You would be amazed at how much you can continue to learn from straight line walking. One could practice for many lifetimes and still not master it. It's a great way to start realizing some of the internal aspects of the art.

If Tai Chi is too easy or not difficult enough, then your clearly doing it wrong. It can be as easy or difficult as you want to make it. One of the most obvious ways is to simply slow it down. Do the form normally and time yourself. If it takes you 10 minutes, then try doing it slower so it takes 20,30, 40, or an hour. Take individual postures such as An, Dan Pien, Ji, or Peng, and hold them for 10-20 minutes or more with a goal of working up to an hour. See how relaxed you can get while holding correct form. See how perfect you can get your form. If all of this is too easy or not difficult enough for you then you are one of the top Tai Chi Masters ever! From my standpoint, it's impossible to ever master an art like Tai Chi, or even a simple horse stance for that matter. There is always room for improvement no matter how many decades a person has been practicing. If it was easy, then it could be mastered in a decade or less. All the true masters I have been lucky enough to train with, practice diligently every single day of their lives working towards mastery. On the other hand, the arrogant lazy charlatans stop practicing, get fat, write books, and go around telling everyone what a great master they are.

Clearly a misunderstanding of Karma. Karma cannot be transferred and it's completely silly to concern yourself with such nonsense. People absolutely can infect us with their issues such as anger, neurosis, and of course the other side of the coin with love, light, compassion and peace, but Karma cannot be transferred. We should be mindful of the people we choose to spend out time with and I'm all for extended solitary or silent retreats, but it's not other peoples Karma that we need to be worried about. We create our own Karma and sadly for most people this happens unconsciously.

Don't concern yourself with silencing your mind. Work on relaxing your mind, silence will come as a result. Remember the old Suzuki Roshi quote about thoughts; It's ok the have thoughts, just don't invite them in for tea!

I completely agree with what "Tao Master" has said, these are all true and important points. In my experience the real magic starts happening once I've broken through resistance, but I also feel this is often better done in solitary or silent retreat. I believe it's also important to see the other side of the coin. I've seen too many people start on a path of cultivation with this 'more is better' attitude all gung ho and ready to be Milarepa or Da Mo and end up quitting within the year. What is most important in my opinion is daily practice (even a short one) and as many retreats as one can work into their life. Even a simple 10 minute meditation done everyday is a beautiful thing. It's much better to quit the meditation on a high note and keep your sessions short and sweet than it is to push too hard and burn out. The path of patience and balance is the right path in my opinion. You will look forward to your 10 minutes and truly enjoy it instead of making it into a chore or a battle to be fought. The 10 minutes will grow into 20 minutes, then 30..... Celebrate and be thankful for any practice that you do. Each day is like putting a piece of rice paper on your desk. One sheet is nothing, even 100 sheets appears insubstantial, but one day you look up and have a huge stack of rice paper. I will never forget the first time I broke the 2 hour barrier. There are some real advantages to longer sits depending on what type of meditation you are doing, but keep in mind the potential for making your daily sit into a chore and possibly burning out.

Great Sadhana, my favorite of all the njondro practices. Truly a beautiful and powerful practice on so many levels.

Practicing on uneven ground is great training, but I truly believe that one should first practice for a few years on nice flat ground. I am big on structure, I feel it is the one of the most important aspects of internal arts such as Bagua zhang. I've seen so many so called "internal martial artists" with years and years or decades of training who have no root, continuity, and basic structural knowledge and application. Many cannot even stand, much less move correctly. All one has to do is watch the Bagua videos on youtube to see that this is a very common issue. Once this basic structure is understood and FELT then it needs to be trained daily for many years before it becomes natural. It's the whole "unconscious incompetence" to "unconscious competence" process. At this point, it's good to mix it up and train on uneven ground and challenging environments. I feel that if a beginner just jumps into this type of training, then proper technique, structure, and continuity will be thrown out the window. In the real world, when the #$@! hits the fan we may not have a nice flat ground to move on so training on uneven ground is very wise in my opinion.

Hehe too funny. 100 days, that's just plain crazy. You guys are animalz. Yeah frog jumps while holding the top of the vest so you don't get smacked in the chin as the weight flies up.

Gotta go out on a limb to get the fruit! Bingo.