Phi92
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Everything posted by Phi92
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Haha, yes, although only more or less. In Wing Chun Kuen, you have the concept of "the most direct path" to strike the opponent. In the scientific method, philosophy and logic, you have Occam's razor - the most simple and elegant explanation is usually the correct one or at least the best beginning point. I consider Wu Wei as practical life, decision making Occam's razor. You choose the most direct and most simple way to achieve something. Zi ran I consider to mean - acting naturally, being in accord with your own character, not being "fake", but to know thyself and to be yourself, to do what you love and what is natural to you. When it comes to decision making and ethics, I believe it means something simmilar to Wu Wei - acting in a simple and effective manner. It is interesting how Ziran and Wu Wei seem to be very logical and systematic concepts when you think about it.
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I believe a Daoist is someone who researches the Dao, thinks about it, incorporates it in his/her daily life and practices it by one form or another (qigong, meditation, taijiquan etc.). I'm not sure if I can call myself a Daoist yet. Perhaps only in the sense that that's the philosophy/spiritual path that I currently associate with the most. But calling myself a full Daoist, whatever that it, would be rather pretentious. I guess I'm just a researcher and I experiment and try different paths. Daoism is just the most personal and direct to me, something I've experienced, partially, but still better than nothing at all. I also find it logical and rational, so both sides are satisfied - the intuitive, spiritual side and the rational/logical side.
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What makes you think I don't talk from practice? Everything I mentioned is how I see it and experience it and how I incorporate it in my own life.
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We simply disagree then. I don't think philosophy or communication is useless and people should try to understand and conceptualize, rationalize. Practice is important, yes, but you seem to make the false dichotomy practice-thinking. I think one should do both. Lao Zi did both. The Dao and concepts related to it should be analysed and thought through like any philosophical theory. Practice is also good, but I don't see why you have to choose one. Having a great understanding of philosophy can only help you practice and understand it better. For me, both are needed. Some think practice is more important, some think philosophy is more important. I think one should incorporate both in their life and I don't think it's good to just practice and be silent.
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I also meditate, but how does a wu wei and zi ran meditation look like? The only thing I feel when I meditate is energy and complete relaxation. At one point, I just am, without thoughts or stiffness, just a part of existence. When I finish and open my eyes, my vision is blurred and wavy for a moment and I feel really happy and good.
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Sounds like most christians... (No offense to anyone)
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So you are suggesting discussion and philosophy is useless? I meditated ten minutes ago haha, I prefer to do both - thinking and non-action
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Or maybe some see chatter and thinking as a form of cultivation
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I love tea... Lungching most
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Maybe too vague ^^' I guess everyone see's it as they want it. And that's a good thing, a philosophy, religion, spiritual path, whatever should be personal I'm very happy to see what you all have to say and to discuss your opinions!
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I have no problem with western Daoism or any other modification of it. I believe all thoughts should be analysed and experienced. The Dao is not Chinese and Daoism as a philosophy isn't Chinese. It exists for everyone, so I approve when people interpret it how they like it. However, I do agree that a Daoist is an integration of mind-body-spirit. One should train all of those, by reading books, doing sports, meditating, contemplating, whatever. I don't think Chinese internal martial arts are the only things good for doing that. In fact, someone here said that all actions can be Daoist as it is not the action itself, but the practitioner and his/her view. Your description is very spot on, if you ask me
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Use it, by all means People should observe thoughts as pure thoughts, without divinding them into any harmful categories. That's why I cherish Kant as much as I cherish an old sage from a tribe or Taoism. The only thing that should be a criterium for accepting or disproving thoughts is reason, critical thinking, logic. That's what I thought (no pun intended)
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Thank you, this is a very clever and succint answer! I am the first and third definition, as I study Daoism intellectually and logically and try to compare it with other philosophies, have my own view of it and description, but I also practice meditation and martial arts, try to incorporate the concepts in every day life and decision making and achieve the Dao through practices which some would call "mystical." I also do not worship Daoist deities as beings, but as philosophical concepts, ideals and role models. I see only Lao Zi and perhaps the Eight Immortals as people/saints/xian worth respecting. I also don't think that logic is sufficient in some points, although I love it and think it's one of the most useful tools of our reason, but I also think that mystical, intuitional knowledge and experience has value too. I'm all for cooperation so that we can have the widest and most true image of reality analysed from all angles and concepts.
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I see it as rational/logical/empirical/scientific knowledge "vs." intuitive/mystical/direct knowledge. I think both are needed and none of it should be left unused. Both are capable of great truth.
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I understand. I'm stricly against degrading rational and logical knowledge. I simply believe man must have both. Also, I think non-action is possible without reducing rational knowledge. I see the Dao De Jing as a very intellectual and rational book mixed with mysticism and intuition. A perfect synthesis. I also doubt Lao Zi would give up rational knowledge today if he were alive and if he saw all the merits of western philosophy and science. It seems that almost always, a cooperation is the best choice.
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I'm glad you like my story I'm really a newbie and Daoism is a wide philosophy. I bet I will spend my life learning about Daoism and philosophy in general, be it western or eastern or african or indigenous. A thought is a thought, the location of it's origin isn't really important. Also, besides learning, I hope I will experience the Dao more and more. I got myself the Daoist book "The Secret of the Golden Flower", I hope that will help me as well
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Shanlung, while I respect your signature, I don't think it is just. Calling your self idiotic isn't just
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Is "Taoistic idiot" an insult or your signature? I also look forward to discussion and trying to understand and experience the Dao together. Peace!
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It's very easy to say "we can never understand the Tao", but that doesn't mean that we should stop trying. Philosophy usually gives no absolute answers, but you don't give up. Also, I don't see why one couldn't define the practices and beliefs that can get you closer to the Dao. Like I said - such obscurantism is simply unnecessary.
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I wasn't trying to say that you are a mystic, I was trying to say that such an obscure answer isn't needed. I never asked to define the Dao, I asked to define usual Daoist practices and behaviour. I don't accept things I like, I just like the answers to be logical and coherent. Also, please refrain from using such language. I never insulted you.
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Welcome from a new member!
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I will read it, thank you! Btw. I apsolutely adore parrots!
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Less mysticism please. I just asked what a Daoist is in the manner of - what does a person who follows the Dao do? What are the common practices and held beliefs? If we can't define the Dao, which is true, that doesn't mean we can't define the means to try to get closer to the Dao, since it cannot be known rationally, but only through direct experience. When I asked about the definition of a Daoist, I didn't mean about what the Dao is or something simmilar. I meant how to live the Dao and try to get closer to it, which is a personal experience, but I don't see why someone wouldn't discuss it and share it. If we can't even define a Daoist, then why call Qigong, Taijiquan, Neidan and other things Daoist practices? We can't define the Dao, as the ontological principle, but we can define a person who follows the Dao as a Daoist. I really don't see the need for so much obscurantism.
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Thank you, Chi Dragon, you are very wise!
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Thank you very much, this is a really clear, simple and systematic approach! I will most definitely research and practice those topics and use your list as a guideline.
