manitou

I haven't studied Buddhism, so I'm out of my element here. I've read some sutras, and I've been hanging around here for a long time. Please excuse me if I don't understand your vehicle - it's just the nomenclature and structure that are at issue. And as for time - it is our choice as to whether to dwell in the future or past at all. For practical purposes, of course we use time. I may meet you for lunch tomorrow at 12:00. This is the functional part of this unfolding. But to 'fear' tomorrow, or what is going to happen to us next - is what Tolle talks about. He's not pretending that there is not going to be a new day tomorrow; his idea is just to use this unfolding, this anticipation of a point of time tomorrow, to our benefit, not our detriment. Just functionally. What I think, is that there is One Truth at the bottom of all this. How many Truths can there be? I've triangulated and seen the metaphysics of several disciplines and they end up in one place. That we are the I Am, that we manifest our surroundings, that we can look at our surroundings and determine where our inner self is at all times. That we are mirrors of each other; that, until we know better, we seek approval in each other's eyes; that when we reach the bottom of our own psyche, we cease to need approval from anyone; that We are the creator; that Love, or a magnetic type of mutual attraction, is the operative principle underlying everything - and when we align ourselves with that dynamic, life falls into place magically; that to find the love of everything is our life, to see the being-ness of everything, is to have peace of heart. Buddhism as it's discussed on this forum is often a complicated path. Sometimes I think that there is so much to learn within the Buddhist structure, that a type of ego can develop if we're not careful once it's learned. Or the mindset that my Rinpoche is better than yours. But I think that Buddhists too will ultimately end in the Void, or the Dao. Perhaps just a different language. I've seen many threads here that believe that Buddhism is the only way to enlightenment. I think it's an excellent way, but not the only way. I'm guessing Gautama would agree with that. When a Buddhist says that extinction is desirable, is this not to revert to the Void? Please correct me if I'm wrong. But it seems that the more complicated the answer gets, the less likely that it is that that's the finality of the answer. I don't think the ultimate answer is complicated at all. It is Us, that's all. When we have eliminated that which is undesirable within us, the Sutras would seem to agree with this. The Buddha mind, as I've read, is also found through elimination of qualities that hamper the inner dive, in addition to growth within the structure. We are the Buddha, if we only knew it. We are the Christ. We are the Sage. I found my Buddha nature in the Avatamsaka Sutra. When we have finally developed our Eyes, this becomes quite apparent, and it is a Truth within us that is the steady rock within, unchangeable. But, then again, maybe an old metaphysical lady shouldn't oughta' be mouthing off on the Buddhist forum. Point taken, 3bob. I'll just read until I understand better the intricacies of this structure.

Perhaps it means taking on the suffering (relieving them of it) but not wearing it. But I do think our well-being is transposed onto others just by proximity - a rather mystical thing that happens where peace permeates the chaos within another. The vision of the Seer, just as a heron spotting a fish and spearing it with his beak, can spot an entanglement within another and by a well-placed word can undo it. LOL. If we stayed within the confines of our thread titles, our threads would be very short indeed. Personally, I love the way the threads evolve into what they're supposed to be. It's all good.

The action of the Dao is reversion -

Echart Tolle would agree with you, Rigdzin Trinley. He would say that the concept of reincarnation is but a construct man has created due to fear of dying, or not-being. Much more comprehensive than the Christian belief in a heaven, but a construct of mind just the same; that is, until an awakened one desires extinction and relief from Time. Your description and discussion of the malas, the unending, reminds me of the trillions of Buddha-worlds discussed at length (I mean, really at length) in the Avatamsaka Sutra. It reminds me of the atomic structure manifesting everywhere, in all sizes. A wonderful post - thank you!

'Realization's spontaneous display of conduct' 'Giving in return one's own well-being' These two phrases seem to convey the essence of an awakened one - in that it's "attraction rather than promotion". The awakened one does not need to go out and find sorrow to try and fix it. Rather, he is an attractant in himself - the sorrow of others will automatically attract to him, because sorrow sees there a cure, sorrow intuits a cure. Our essence extends outward - perhaps it could be called an aura of sorts. I think healing is done even without our knowledge, aura to aura. We do give in return our well-being. I have recollection of a man I met 34 years ago - I was just first getting sober and my thinking was a mess, my emotions were in upheaval. Yet, there was something about this old man that just drew me to him. Something unspeakable, something holy. I just wanted to sit next to him at meetings, that's all. He was nearly blind and hardly ever spoke, unless called upon. But the essence of this man was like a huge magnet - and I am quite sure that a lot of healing took place aura to aura, without me even knowing that I was being healed. It's funny how vivid the recollection of old Herb is, still today. He affected me deeply, and is alive in me today as he was sitting next to him then. And occasionally, the awakened words would issue forth from his mouth.... Yes, healing others for their sake - because the awakened one is not doing it from ego.

This is so profound. the first paragraph reminds me of the line in the DDJ where it says 'Between 'ough' and 'aaah', how much difference is there?' The relativity of all phenomena being just that; relative. Nothing is wasted, nothing is discarded. All men are valued, the Sage finds the use for all men. He sees the value of all men, despite appearances to the opposite. I relate more to the crazy person acting without premeditation, I think. Emaho! The defilements turn out to be blessings, after all. Best thing that ever happened to me was alcoholism. The lotus wouldn't be able to grow if it weren't for the mud...

Yes! I think you are right. We were in Hangzhou for a few days. The lovely graceful bridge going out to the teahouse and all the windows is what I remember most - and the convivial joy of being there with others who took the time to focus on companionship, on the joy of merely drinking tea together. I am laughing as I type this. You're the only other person I've ever heard on this forum who can sweat like a mofo. This is one of my husband's funnier expressions too.....he's an old street person from long ago, and this is one nod to his sordid past. You're so funny -

There is so much to get into in these posts, I don't know where to begin. I think I have to begin with this image. There is so much in it. I don't know the Yogi legendary figure, but the fact that he-she is an archer would be an indication that they are a Seer, one with perfect vision? Always hitting the mark. I notice the fact that there is an arrow piercing the tree (of knowledge) behind him which goes in the opposite direction; would this not indicate that they have pierced their own self with the arrow of self knowledge? I note a hole in their braid, perhaps the arrow went through there. Often the hair symbolizes a 'strength' or more likely in this case the ego - which the archer had to pierce to become the archer in the first place. Just sayin'. Also, I notice that he-she is sitting with snakes. I guess the snakes would be the primordial knowledge contained within him, within all of us? He must have conquered his fear of death to party with snakes. The one around his waist gives the impression of being the snake swallowing his own tail - orouborous (or however your spell it!), his connection with Infinity, with the Eternal Life of the Now. And the fact that the snakes are green may be part of what the artist was saying. Green is newness, budding life - perhaps this is metaphoric for the eyes of a child, seeing the world with new eyes, seeing the wonder of life. The artist may have also been picking up this theme in the sprouting green plant at the bottom of the tree. Aah. I just saw something else. The tree is a dual tree, the trunks winding around each other. He has pierced, or seen through, the duality of the tree of life.

At first I thought the author's name was the last piece of advice in the poem, lol. Chuck surface. It almost works.

Thank you for that, SillyBearHoneyEater - what a refined post that was. That last one, Xiu Xing Cha is particularly interesting. i'll bet you are one Tea King! and congratulations on winning an award for your company. I spent a couple weeks in China some years back - and I think the best day of my trip was the day I spent it in a teahouse in the middle of a lake. what a memory. You brought it all back.... Thanks again.

An excellent point - isn't a desire to express oneself genuine? Yes, at any point in our development we will express ourselves in different ways. When I was young, I expressed myself by wearing lots of make-up and tight clothing. But this wasn't an expression for me, it was an expression to impress others, to attract a man I thought I couldn't be whole without. There's nothing inherently wrong, IMO, with tattooing or piercing. I would just question the need to do it. Would a master suddenly up and get a nose ring? Probably not - maybe you can find the exception. But a nose ring or a tattoo is generally done for the purpose of showing the world an attitude or mindset that you want the world to think you are: that you are Cool. If a person genuinely does it for his own purpose, say, because he truly loves dolphins and wants to wear one on his arm - then perhaps he would be just as comfortable walking around in a long sleeve shirt as a wife-beater T-shirt. But I've found that most tattoo'd folks like to show them off, ergo the wife-beater shirts, lol. I say be sure to pick a tattoo that will be compatible with you when you reach masterhood.

Incredible honesty you display, Bodhidharma. Please know that our paths take a very long time - a lifetime, in fact. Your willingness to look within and discover your own shortcomings and fears places you way ahead of the game, IMO. But know that we're not running a race. Life is 'long' for a reason, and you are young. I'm so glad you're here with us in this crazy lapidary of ideas. The truth in you will emerge because your mind is open. Just try to enjoy the moment, and try not to come to conclusions about things, whether good or bad. Embrace the Is-ness of the moment rather than rush it. Be gentle on yourself as you move forward. It sounds like you are at a place in your life where a serious gulp of self realization can occur. This is the reward of emotional pain, if we are willing to go within and look at what we are attached to. Growth never seems to happen when everything is going just right - it's the pain that brings us awareness. Much love to you.

Hello Robyn - Welcome to the Dao Bums - I hope you enjoy your interaction here as much as I have. We're like a huge lapidary of seekers, bouncing off each other so that the rough edges are ultimately worn off. Like uncarved wood, as it says in the Dao De Jing. I look forward to your input! Manitou

I think when you really boil it down, tattoos are meant to be seen by others. For what purpose? Is this not a deep desire to appear as something other than our genuine selves?

This is a lovely thread. Keeping the proximity of death in our consciousness adds to our awareness of life and beauty. It keeps us from taking beautiful life for granted. I recently read Eckhart Tolle saying that the society that hides death behind doors (such as the Western society) is a very shallow society indeed. Perhaps this explains our Western shallowness and attachment to meaningless physical phenomena. Love to everyone who has lost dear pets and loved ones. The day I had to put my horse down left a hole in my heart that I can still feel is there, however there is no longer any pain when I think of her. I still have a swatch of her tail that I take out of a little wooden box and smell once in a while. A little tear of golden sweetness is what comes to my eye now. I listened to an Anthony Demello CD today, and related the lack of attachments to 'passing through the eye of a needle'. Too many attachments, it's not possible to get through there. Ask the camel.

A beautiful and gentle video, and stressing the importance of keeping death close to realize the value of life. To realize life as the journey it is, is such a blessing. We are travelers through our Dharma - this makes me want to go to a Buddhist temple in Pittsburgh and meditate there. Thank you, CT.

No, there wasn't any disappointment, because concurrently with spiritual seeking I was doing ego work, and continue to do so. I don't recall any time of disappointment - but perhaps because I was never vested in it, in that I was never a paid teacher of anything. I think folks that hang their shingle contingent on a particular viewpoint are more prone to trauma if their ideas are threatened. I have a lady friend who teaches a course in Manifestation at a local junior college. She's into all the occult stuff - tarot, tea leaves, pendulum stuff, Reiki - you name it. She has a large network of 'metaphysical' friends and vendors who put up booths at her Metaphysical Faires. She's a lovely woman, but scrapes a very broad metaphysical surface - without depth. We have been friends for several years, but I think she is a little afraid of me, because I can see her insides. Recently, she was complaining because her sons didn't appreciate her enough, 'after all she's done for them'. When I mentioned to her that the only appreciation she really needed was her own and that she didn't need the approval of others - you should have seen the fear in her eyes! As we were saying goodbye anyway, she threw her car into reverse and sped down the driveway. It was a real threat to her, to have her way of being threatened in any way. Actually, the fact that she teaches Manifestation is a source of surprise to me, because what Mary actually teaches is Manipulation, and she doesn't know it. I think in this sense the 'shingles' can be detrimental to our further inner growth, because ego rests on it so heavily. As to my own path, I just read everything, regardless of what religion or mindset it contains. There's no philosophy we can't get something out of, as I see it. Seems like my spiritual understanding has been a combination of a million 'tweaks' of my understandings. Truth has always been at the basis of this. Even as a kid, I remember feeling that I wanted to know The Truth. I think that was underlying the years I was a detective too, probably the motivation for me even being one. Uncovering the truth. The Truth already lies within us. When we hear it from the lips of another, or we connect our minds with the great minds through reading - The Truth will resonate like a violin string inside us when heard. It's already there, it just needs to be connected to our consciousness. I've gotten just as much from Yogi philosophy and Buddhism as the great metaphysicians. And the shamans. It all goes to the same place. To 'gnow' who we are is the Key - and to Be Here Now in that knowledge. We become It.

LOL . I think all the paths are 'right'. It is the motivation of the Great Intelligence within, Logos, that draws all of us to discover something more than merely the physical in front of us. We seem to instinctively know that there is something more, and we can't quite put words to it. I look back on my own personal evolution in all this and can see how caught up my mind has been at various times, thinking "I finally found it! This is the right way! It's this brand of Christianity, or Buddhism, or Daoism, or Theosophy!" But it all keeps evolving, if we keep our minds open. And we finally realize that it's all the same thing seen through different filters. I think where in the world we happen to be born primarily dictates what our spiritual world view is slated to be, at least as our parents or society hands it down to us. It's up to us to see through these structures - get what we will out of them - but to ultimately transcend them. It's only when ego gets involved that we feel that we have the answers, the 'only' answer, as in "I am right and you are wrong". Ego wants to be first, to be the one with the answers, to separate ourselves from the masses so that we can feel validated, special, better than the others. What a strange thing ego is. But ego is the very thing that, once tamed, creates self awareness and the realization that we are all One, we are all cells of the same body. How silly it seems for one cell to try and elevate itself above all the other cells. But ego certainly has its value, in that without it, there would be nothing to conquer, and no way to find self-realization. I guess animals have a type of ego too, in that they know when they are threatened. But that seems to be about it - unless you happen to be such a pretty little french poodle that your master feels the necessity to enter you in dog shows. The Westminster dog show - the dogs almost seem to react to the applause! I wonder if they haven't 'caught' a bit of the ego of their master? You mention Christianity - I happen to live in a huge Bible thumping area. There are some real good folks here - my cousin being one of them, and she's never questioned the Bible stories, or the premise of Christianity at all. She's a real fine, kind lady - and she actually 'lives' her beliefs. But I interact with others who will get in your face and practically holler that their way of seeing things is the only way - and sure enough, I'll be going to hell soon enough because I don't see it their way. We live in such a disposable society here in the states. No depth, so much emphasis on the material and acquisition. I've come to realize how very suitable the current state of Christianity is to this societal condition. There is no requirement for inner work, no necessity for them to be responsible for their own attitudes or opinions. After all, the Nazarene did it all for them. They can go on living selfish lives, accumulating all they can possibly accumulate - and not questioning this at all. The Nazarene died for their sins, in their minds, and so what the heck? Why worry about changing your behavior at all? You're covered - you put money in the collection plate every week. and you celebrate Jesus' birthday once a year. At least that's how I see the condition here in this part of Ohio. I've always lived in California, up to 7 years ago - and I never noticed this phenomenon there. Not because it wasn't there, but because there is so much of a mix of ideation in a more cosmopolitan area. It's just not as visible. I'm not sure we even have to teach, Nikolai. I think all we have to do is walk our talk. Any lessons derived from us by others are most effective if Unseen and Unheard. Just like the Dao. When we are in Awareness, we realize our connection with everyone else, all other things in the world. We just become the teaching.

Aah. I feel good today. I was sitting out on my front porch - fall is in the air, the huge tree next door is bright red. I am reading The Last Meditations of Anthony Demello's 'The Way to Love'. He speaks of awareness in every thought he expresses. Lo and behold - I was sitting there in total silence, thinking about something he said - when suddenly I heard things dropping. I couldn't figure out what it was at first - but it was the acorns dropping off the oak tree in our yard! They were hitting the ground in soft little thuds every time a little breeze came up. What a wonderful awareness, to hear acorns dropping. It reminded me of when I was a young girl and we would go up to our mountain cabin - and it would be so quiet sometimes that you could actually hear sap dropping from the trees! I could learn from both Demello and my dog, Mr. Kanooch. He was staring up at the ceiling last night. I looked up to see what had him so captivated, and it was.....a fly. Just a fly. He watched it for a while. Oh, to be as aware and in the Present as these dogs are.... Have you had a Sweet Awareness today?

I haven't seen it. How do we remind you of Pocahontas? Was she in awareness of what was around her?

I had a similar thing happen over here. My cat is quite the hunter, and the other day she brought home a bird. The bird wasn't quite dead yet, and the kitty had put it on the ground in front of her. The cat just lay there and looked at it. What struck me (and I called my husband over to see it!) was how accepting the bird was of its impending death. There was no flopping around to get away, no fear in its eyes. It just looked at the cat in gentle acceptance of what was coming next. Truly a holy moment, the acceptance.

Yes it does indeed, Lerner. I'm repairing fence out in the yard today so Mrs. Kanooch doesn't escape. (That would be Mr. Kanooch's sister). But while I was at it, I watched with wonder a wooly-worm make it's willy nilly way across the dirt. Some days it just all comes together, doesn't it?

The only problem, as I see it, is that to group folks into one category or the other is to shut our minds to truly Seeing other people. We are looking at them from our own opinion, our own previous image of what we think they are. In truth, they may be totally different upon your next meeting with them, but because we have a pre-determined fixed idea of them, we only see what fits into our previous idea of them. I do understand, though, why you brought this all up because of the various arguments we can get into on this forum. It may very well explain our different worldviews, and it's probably valid for discussion at a particular point in time. But I wouldn't get too attached to this delineation...

You and God aren't separate. You are It. You are God manifesting this boredom. This too is part of life, it's just where you choose to be right now for some reason. You haven't always been bored, I'm guessing. You're looking for a Good Feeling, the green light. Maybe that green light means GO, in your dream. Maybe this means to get out of your head, if you are often in it, and go out and get your hands dirty, to actually plunge into the physical. I garden, that does it for me. We are pretty much hermits - and other than gardening and reading, there's not much we do any more. Looking for a Good Feeling is the part of duality that is counter productive, IMO. Embrace your ennui, see where it stems from - why you are reluctant to move out of it. There may be a fear lurking underneath - something from years ago - some advice your folks continued to give you, making you fearful of the unknown. Telling you to be careful all of the time, stuff like that. If there is something there, it is this dynamic that needs to be tweaked by taking action, even if you don't feel like taking action. Take it anyway and see what happens. Happiness isn't found by looking for good feelings. Rather, it's a by-product of the removal of the dross within us - the conditioning we receive from everyone from birth. If you truly want happiness, try becoming aware of the following within you: any desire to be first (in anything), any desire for more than you need, any judgment you may be making toward anyone in your life. Look at your selfishnesses, if you have any - and look at your opinions. When I first came to recover from my prior existence, I came to the conclusion that every conclusion I had ever come to was probably wrong. This was a humbling exercise, but it went a long way. I'm not one to recommend books, but I would do so here. Please give Eckhart Tolle a try. He has the most marvelous way of shifting all the responsibility onto ourselves, not feeling victimized by our feelings (although I don't get a sense that you're doing that - you're just being very, very honest). But if you don't change a dynamic within you that is 'choosing' ennui, it will not change. That green light is there - you just need to uncover it. Much love to you - and I wish you the very best. Thank you for sharing something that all of us struggle with from time to time. We just don't want it to become an attachment, a habit, a crystallized dynamic.

They are untroubled by anger and disputes - but do you find that they get into that mindset very often? It seems to me that the longer life files down the rough edges, there are no rough edges left to get caught up in other people's rough edges - ergo very little dispute. And when you say "despite having religion as an extremely important part of their identity", I assume you are speaking of what a metaphysician would call 'the Religious Mind', as opposed to being aligned with any religion? I agree that The Healed, at a certain point, cease looking further. The I Am consciousness is sufficient; and at this point, the I Am draws what it draws to It. There is no need to go out and seek, to thump, to even look for ways to be helpful. It manifests before us every day, and beautiful Intuition will always provide the right thing to say or do, if we wait for it. It's all in the timing; not jumping the gun, waiting for it to come. Everything has its season. I'm questioning your last sentence, about Jesus being the only ones to perform miracles. I do think healings can be classified as miracles, and healings we can do. Perhaps not the same drama as the Nazarene, but if the inner dynamics of another can truly be seen for what they are, the Seer (or healer) can tweak those dynamics and cause the process of disease to reverse. My husband and I have done it. This is why, in the Bible, Jesus would say 'go and sin no more'. He wasn't speaking of sin in the sense that current Christianity sees it, as a good or bad issue, heaven or hell issue. Rather, he was seeing it as a 'miss the mark' issue - a wrong mindset in the mind of the diseased one. A well placed word from an Enlightened One can instantaneously cause a budding dynamic of enlightenment in another because of the change of the inner dynamic from fear or hatred, self loathing or judgmentalism, to Love of self, and consequently love of our brothers. Love and forgiveness of self must come first. But if, as you say, gross pride comes into play, it's all false. It's not there in the first place. Nice thread, Nikolai.