manitou

Awfully dualistic, Karl. We are all tentacles on the giant squid, egotistical maniacs or not.

Japanese. No wonder I felt a bit shined on by the Chinese authorities.

My guess at 3bob's enigmatic statement is that a) in order to remove the temporal nature of being, it is upon us. We have the option of learning to stay in the Now, not to think in a temporal sense. Not to buy into our personal background (which serves to bolster ego and keep us separate from each other). To live with our minds in fear of tomorrow also serves to bolster ego, again separating us from life. In order to stay in the Now one must go deep within their own character so that there are no more buttons to push - so that one no longer needs to buy into arguments - so that one's mind is totally open and receptive to all, and to realize that everybody is on their own path whether they know it or not. To accept people as they are, not as we think they should be. In order to develop this point of perception, deep inner work must be done.

I've recently been reading some Krishnamurti and he speaks of the 'religious mind' as being that mind after the transformation - after the structure of any religion has been dropped and what remains, in his view, is the religious mind. Obviously, his view of religious is different than common usage today. He speaks of the religious mind as being the mind that has undergone the chemical changes which lead to freedom of thought and no structure at all. Interesting take he has. I've never seen it referred to as the religious mind in this sense. The religious mind, to me, was always something a bit undesirable.

Seems like the motivation would be different. A person going out of his way to live in a cave is probably looking for total silencing of his thoughts, avoidance of 'unreal' phenomena. A fellow sitting on a bench, repeatedly over the years, is most likely people watching out of boredom, no? And not mindful of the inner judgmental dialogue going on as people pass? (Assuming he's like most folks)

Of course they're innocent until proven guilty. I've filed a crime report with the Chinese authorities and they said they'll get right on it.

Anything further in there that we can pretend that we know what we're talking about?

I happen to be listening to a Tolle CD right now in my car. His awakening experience, according to what I heard this morning, was as a result of losing everything - he didn't go into detail. Said he had two coins in his pocket, that's all. And I just learned the correct pronunciation of Tolle's name - it's Tol-lay, which came as a complete surprise to me. I had always thought it was 'toll'. My kundalini awakening was quite physical - in fact, the result of a slight fender bender where someone lightly rear-ended us. It's what's called a 'spontaneous' awakening. The funny thing is that as we were stopped behind another car at a signal, I heard brakes screeching behind us - I glanced into the rear-view mirror and saw the truck trying to stop; he couldn't. But the odd thing was what my mind did. As I saw the truck barreling toward us, my mind asked the question "Why am I manifesting this?" I knew nothing about manifestation at the time. I did not know Who I Really Am. It was such an odd question for my mind to come up with, given that I was really into Castaneda at the time and had never given any thought to the manifestation aspect. As a result of that incident, the kundalini arose. I knew nothing about it, had never heard of it. I know that what heralded the raising of the actual kundalini energy, several days after the accident, was the incredible loud sound of a train on a track going by my bedroom window. (I lived nowhere near a train track). Some people, I have subsequently read, will hear either a train or a tornado. Either way, it's real spooky. I don't know if that phenomenon is necessary for the rising. I know I read somewhere where it is, but I'm not sure about that. What I consider to be my own 'awakening' as opposed to the rising of the kundalini was more of a thing that happened over time. The layers of personality need to be peeled back, examined; the rough edges must be filed down; the sense of separateness, me to you, must be removed. The mind must have learned to achieve no-thought, complete rest. This has culminated in me probably 10 years after my kundalini awakening. But no doubt there is a connection between the two. Perhaps the kundalini rising is an important part of removing the 'dross' from our inner selves. I noticed after the kundalini started that the energy would tend to get stuck in a particular chakra. Nobody told me to do this, but I sort of intuitively knew that there was something that needed work within me, pertaining to what the particular chakra signified. So I would use the 'stucked-ness' of the K-energy as an indication that there was more of me that I needed to examine. That maybe I was pushing too hard in some particular area. Or that I wasn't saying something that needed to be said (if the energy was stuck in the throat chakra, for example). Mysterious, this kundalini stuff. There used to be a website called kundalinigateway.org, but I don't think it's up and running any more. There was a bolt for every nut there - much like our beloved site, lol.

WARNING: OFF COLOR ALERT. For Taomeow's eyes only: (RE the above picture: On second thought, I'm a little more concerned about what the kneeling fellow is doing under his robe...)

I was reading one of Barack Obama's books, Dreams From My Father - and he made a statement about when he used drugs when he was younger, looking for something to 'flatten out the landscape of his heart'. What a perfect description - whether you're talking about drugs or about being in the Moment. Flattening out the landscape of our hearts. This is what we look for with drugs, but we don't get it for more than a moment or so. Learning to back off of 'life' and extrapolate yourself momentarily, take a deep breath, disengage every tense muscle in your body, and realize that This Moment is all you really ever have. See the beauty in it, forgetting about what you were worried about. Utilize all the senses. That will flatten out the landscape of your heart, which - in the end game - is pretty much what we're all looking for in all our efforts in attaining. Just to feel secure. I have several Krishnamurti books and it occurred to me the other day that Krishnamurti never looks into the camera for his book covers. Never. He looks off to the side. I got to wondering about that, and I came up with the conclusion that he was staying in the moment, despite the fact that the photographer was taking a close-up of his face. He didn't want his image to be relegated to the past. Perhaps he sees the immediate moment if he looks elsewhere and focuses on that, not the camera or the fact that he's having his picture taken. Or, maybe if he buys into the fact that he's selling another book, his thoughts would dwell in the future. I don't know. I just know there's something there, and it has to do with staying in the Now. Any other ideas on Krishnamurti and the camera?

i think writing of Tolle here is just what's called for. I happen to be listening to one of his tapes in my car at the present time. The present time. Isn't that funny? There's two layers to 'the present time'. Obviously, I'm not listening to Tolle in my car right now. So it's not really the 'immediate present time'. But in general, it's the present time. Whenever I go out to my car and start it up, he's on the CD. What I heard him say this morning was something like 'You're always all right in the immediate now - in this present moment'. And that was kind of what I realized when the AA lady kept asking me 'But how are you right now?' The particular day that you're fearing, the particular situation, the 'wrong' possible conclusion - on the day that that happens, you will be all right! You always have been. You always will be. Even if you die on that day, you'll still be all right. Possibly more all right than you are right now, in fact...sometimes I think dying might be the swellest thing that ever happens to us. The trip of a lifetime, as it were. Please recall that Tolle often refers to 'knowing Who You Are'. Do you know who that is? and if you truly know Who That Is, what is there to fear? Love to you. Truly.

Due to your above paragraph, perhaps your guess about the women knowing the fellas were there merely demonstrates why I would carry consent forms with me. Perhaps 40 years ago, lol.

Nope. Not buyin' it, lol.

Welcome - my heart jumped when it saw your location - East of the Sun, West of the Moon. That was my very favorite fairy tale as a child. I look forward to seeing you on the threads.

That picture is a little unsettling, Mark. What does it mean to you? Are the men hiding subterraneously out of sight of the women? Or is there another explanation? Or are those sheaves of wheat he is peeking through? Why did you post that particular picture? LOL, I'm an old sex crime investigator and some things just die hard.

About to start A Brief History of Everything, by Ken Wilber. Just finished Freedom From the Known, by Krishnamurti. The thing that's eerie about all this reading is that they all go to the same place. I think it's wonderful to see the different takes that people have to get there, depending on the filters they were conditioned with. It's fascinating.

It doesn't get much better than the Egyptian Book of the Dead My husband and I have been known to do shamanic ceremony. It seems that there is something magical about bringing the metaphysical into the physical. I often equate it to when the Nazarene said to return to the mind of a child. There is so little different than play-acting as kids. I use anything that will symbolize the problem, and then the actions that symbolize the solution. Very powerful. Once we had a lady burn the clothes of her deceased sister in ceremony. She was laying on the ground at a campground, face down on the earth, when about 60 crows showed up and started screaming. Things like this happen when you're working with intent. The problem is in telling anybody about it. It never makes any sense at all to anyone other than those intimately involved in the ceremony. Like Castaneda's don Juan said, "Don't indulge in the results". Just know that it happened, and then life goes on, lol. Reading the Pike book with very long eyes enables one to see the dynamics of the death and the further intentional stripping of undesirable personality traits, resulting in the emerging One. What a fabulous work.

My experience hasn't been that re-feeling (or re-fueling) the emotion on a periodic basis diminishes the emotion over time. I think it might just keep it alive. I've had to go to the amend process, apologizing for my part in the disagreement. Two sides always. Ego diminishing seems to make life a whole lot better, with fewer and fewer uncomfortable situations in which to participate any more. But that does take courage. Lots and lots of opportunity for us to feel the wave of fear of disgust going from one side of the body to the other......that nice visceral, uncomfortable feeling that is almost upsetting to the stomach. But well worth the momentary discomfort, IMO. Even the slightly loose bowels. Just a couple times of having to experience the whole visceral feeling in consciousness in reference to once particular mind pattern (like fear or dominance) the pattern and the consequential visceral feeling start to disappear. The awareness, the light of day, seems to be all it takes; focusing on the problem and bodily reactions seems to clear it like the fog lifting.

And in this way we are all on the horns of an enema. We don't know what's going to happen tomorrow. One day, when I first joined Alcoholics Anonymous 34 years ago, I was complaining to a long-term sober woman about my upcoming pension hearing. I was going on and on, enumerating my fears. Periodically, once in a while, she would squeeze in 'But how are you today?' I would disregard the question a few times, returning to my tale of impending doom regarding my pension hearing. Once, after she asked me about 4 times 'But how are you doing today? That was the time I heard it. I immediately threw my head back and cracked up - I realized how totally different I felt at that moment than I had just a few moments earlier. What a huge journey was travelled in just a few seconds from the prior condition of my stress-ridden body to the body of lightness that was laughing at myself because it was the first time I actually had a personalized glimpse of 'today' as it had not previously been glimpsed before. and my problems melted away for that day, at least.

If you don't mind me asking, how does ego fit into this hierarchy? Is the division by strata something that is discouraged from the very beginning? Of course, this is something that would be worked out as much as humanly possible by the higher degrees - and yet certainly the diminishing of the ego must be something that must be emphasized at some point. Do the earlier ceremonies try to accomplish this? Am I remembering one about handing over all your metal and being asked what you have to say - or something like that. (I think I know the answer to that one...)

So it's possible to have Blue Lodge and Scottish Rite framework at the same location / lodge? Or would you physically have to go to a different location, a different lodge, to participate in the Scottish Rites?

I just thought of something. If I recall, in Pike's book on the 32 degrees of Freemasonry, I seem to recall that there was one degree which emphasized being underground - perhaps a particular ceremony which symbolized being under the earth, in death. I think it was one of the beginning degrees, not sure. It occurs to me how very similar this is to the entering of a dirt coffin, as in the Castaneda series of books. I remember way back when Joe and I were first starting on that path, we went into the wilderness and lay down in dirt coffins - a hole under the ground large enough to get into - and preferably it has roots coming down and hitting you in the face, and a few spiders just for effect. No doubt this is the same dynamic that is alluded to in Christianity, during baptism. I think the scariness of being under the earth (or a spooky ceremony) would have everlasting effect. It was very effective for us, and we both felt somehow changed after doing it. Mason - are you Blue Lodge, or are you within the Scottish Rites? What is the difference between the two?

LOL. Let Brian in and things turn to goulash real fast.

Actually, you sound as though you are very much in alignment with your Higher Self. It's just that your Higher Self is doing some work on you right now, that's all. We all struggle with doubt and fear until we realize Who we really are. We are the One, the Creator. This is just something you're walking through. And you're doing it right, in awareness of your reactions and feelings. Developing an artificial mindset doesn't sound like a great idea. I sure wish you were a little more explicit as to the nature of the problem.

Manley Hall.