manitou

Interesting. Opinion, happiness or moral behavior. It doesn't seem that any of it is really relevant once the non dual has been realized.

That's curious. Mine only have 3. Was I gypped?

Once the awakening has occurred, it becomes a matter of living with the ramifications. It is not static, it doesn't seem to be a default mental setting; rather, one that can be toggled at will when needed. Perhaps after many years of living in this condition, it will be a constant default position. I don't know. @Bindi, you said something earlier about being left with nothing left but ego. I think this is a misunderstanding. The way to get to the non dual is by the long path of crunching one's own ego. The non dual is egoless,. It has no thought, it lives in a state of wu wei, it knows what to do or not do in any circumstance. Prior conditioning does not color it's actions any more, it acts in accordance with the Dao and benefits all things.

This think inside us that doesn't move or doesn't she probably doesn't care one whit whether we are in body or out. Wholely impersonal

Señor Frog's?

It's being realistic and being pragmatic. It's a mindset. If you can stay in touch with the place within that doesn't age and doesn't move, it's a realization that it doesn't matter when we live or die, that awareness is constant whether in body or out, that we live within the form of oroborous, the place of eternity. It removes fear of anything. Identifying with the body at any given moment is a choice, identifying with the eternal is also a choice. This is self awareness, and it's not over the top at all.

Depends on how you feel about dying.

Is that a bad thing?

The non dualist would say that we're all one, and that the one you've judged to be less than awakened are indeed the same as the awakened one. The non dualist would say that there is no separate god, that we're It. We're the man behind the scary wizard of Oz. He would also say that we're all one and the same entity, separated only by different conditionings. The same entity dumped into various skin bags, that's all. And that if you had the same conditioning as the unawakened one who is behaving badly, that you would be behaving in the very same way. Some would call the awakened one Hiram Abiff. It seems to me that this is the highest form of love, to be non judgmental to all. Compassion, agape love. It can be attached or unattached at will.

The non-dual experiencer would ask who you were praying to.

My roommate and I were just now talking about this. Apparently Mr. Putin has cancer of the back. If this is the case, the metaphysical reason he has manifested this is because of things he's done in his past. That certainly seems possible to me.

The problem with this is that non-dual awakening doesn't involve judgment or morality. Just isness. No one to judge the good or badness.

I love Ken Wilbur. As I see it, there is no connection between morality and non-dual awakening. Morality infers a subject and an object, the observer and the observed. Non-dual awakening is to accept without judgment, just see what is. I think it's as it says in the DDJ, that we can either embrace life in duality (ride one horse) or disconnect from duality and live in the essence (ride the other horse). We are, essentially, Annie Oakley. Both horses are needed for participating in the Wild West Show. In non-duality, there is no emotion because there is no attachment. Attachment is formed from prior conditioning. The Force is an Impersonal one. Hence, straw pups.

You're still selling Hoovers door to door?

We are ceremonial straw dogs. Isness is where it's at. Love is an action to be practiced at all times. Is the client still there?

Lately I have been noticing the same things. I try to assign what note in the scale the leaf blower is, or the car driving by. In that sense, all things can be experienced as a symphony. When we go to a symphony, we don't go just to hear the piccolos. The constant ringing in my ears is definitely a b flat...

It occurred to me one day as I was riding as a passenger in a car that there was something inside me that wasn't moving. My body was, of course - but there was an element in me that was not moving at all. It was stationary. It also seems to be the very thing inside that is not aging. As old as my body gets, and it's getting up there, it's the same 'me' that was there when I was a young girl. Nothing has changed, nothing has gotten older. So what does this mean to me? It means that there is a place carried within that is beyond time and space. I think this is what is meant when it is said that 'all time and space are yours'. There is no indication of limitation felt. It is not connected at all with what our bodies are doing. It is this thing that I find the most comfort in connecting with. It takes all fear out of anything, any place, or any condition. How to access it? By transcending thought. Like when the Rinpoche was asked by his student, 'How do you enter the zen mind?' The sage answered, 'Do you hear that distant waterfall?' The student said, 'No.' The sage said, 'Enter from there'. It is the beginner's mind. I sometimes enter through sound baths, wherein every sound heard is given no more importance over any other sound, but all are recognized and appreciated. The drone of tires carries the same weight as the song of a mockingbird. Both have equal beauty.

This is true if one remains in the throes of duality.

I'd be interested to listen to people's concept of death. Not what it says in the Upanishads, or the Sutras, or the Bible, or what Buddha said. I found myself thinking deeply about this on my morning walk. in my own understanding, it is all Mind. I was brought up Christian, to believe in a heaven. That has been discounted with my own spiritual maturity. But as humans, I think it is a natural tendency to look for some sort of comfort as death approaches, or particularly when a loved one leaves us. I was thinking about my beloved Joe this morning, who died 3 years ago. When Joe was alive, we had a sort of agreement about death. We had in our minds a beautiful grassy knoll (no book repository) next to a stream. The deceased one of us had a picnic blanket spread out under a tree, waiting for the other to arrive. And, of course, a great lunch. My horse and our favorite deceased pets were all there, and it was there that we would all meet up again. It was very comforting to think in these terms, as is the concept of a heaven where everything will be okay ad infinitum. And when I was particularly sad after his passing, the very human part of my mind would go directly to that place. The place of comfort. A way to get through the pain. But we believe as our minds would have us believe due to our conditioning. I wondered this morning if 'carrying' a picture like this would preclude merger with the infinite. If my mind, because it was still so attached to a Particular Personality (Joe) that this would necessitate another washing cycle through life that could have been avoided. In other words, if I am still clinging to a personality, even a deceased one, that my mindset is not one of Oneness. That would still be distinction. If, on the other hand, I carried the notion in my mind of all of life being One, that the necessity for recycling would be unnecessary. And along with that notion comes the realization that Joe is part of the infinite and is Here Now, as linear time is merely a consequence of planetary rotation, a field in which our thoughts manifest into lives. I've read plenty of books about post-death experiences. Most center around loved ones, if I'm not mistaken. I dont know - has anyone who has truly merged with the Dao, with nothingness, ever come back to write about it? Would they need to? Certainly not in a particular personality. But within the Collective, the merged Oneness of us all - the knowledge must certainly be there. The knowledge that if we've removed enough of our conditioning we will get to experience the alignment, the merger. Love is Impersonal. And maybe that's what Don Juan Mateus meant when he would tell Carlos Castaneda '"Death is your Advisor" I've never quite understood that, and because I can't quite get my head around it, the riddle has remained with me for years. On one hand, he would say that Death was standing there on your right hand side. Advising? What comes to mind is something Shirley Maclaine said in her metaphysical book "Out on a Limb", many years ago. She had a silver cord experience out in space wherein she met Death and saw through it. Her point thereafter was "if you lose your fear of death, what is there to fear?" I agree with her on that. It seems that Death underlies any fear we can come up with; it seems that all concepts are based on either love or fear. Fear of death, ultimately. I'd love to hear about other Bums' personal feelings on that. What you've experienced, what you've come away with. Your level of acceptance of your ultimate demise.

I'd say that normal life and death and spirit are all the very same thing.

And that was Shirley Maclaine's point exactly

The terrible twos are when a child first becomes aware of itself as a person. The ego has found form.

Stirling, I hardly know what to say. I won't even try. Thank you. What a strange set of horses we are tasked with riding in these incarnations. I feel like Annie Oakley much of the time. And this goes back to my original point. If we are carrying around a presumption of what we will see, we may be limiting ourselves. Often one will hear about someone coming back from a near-death experience, and they will often see Jesus, or Buddha. I've never heard yet of a Jesus person seeing a Buddha. Personally, in my ego-brain, I would like to hold nothing in mind at the time of passing. No-thought at all. Perhaps if one is met with an untimely death, the overriding principle will be the general trend of their mindset in life.

mustachio

I would guess that Gandhi was an enlightened one. I remember when a reporter asked him about the movement of which Gandhi was a part, the reporter said 'you are certainly ambitious!', Gandhi said 'I hope not'. I don't think the enlightened one needs to have a specific function, like instructing the world or anything. I think the enlightened one finds that if he/she stays in their own lane, the things needing straightening out (usually by not-doing) come to him. This is to be one with the current, not looking to change the stream's direction. Divine will has been delegated. That sounds dual to me. We are divine will.