manitou

Over Forest of Emptiness' avatar, he (or she) defines himself as 'Direct Path Zen Buddhist.' I've always understood Direct Path to be the inner path, where one unfurls the contortions to find the straight shot. (Perhaps I've been misunderstanding Direct Path). My internal method was out of necessity because of a need to 'recover' from my previous derelict existence. But I have come to appreciate that not everybody needs to go there, especially to the extent that I did. But wouldn't the eightfold path include the inner component as well? I know that within occult Yogi philosophy it does. Even don Juan Mateus had Castaneda do a life recapitulation that he worked on for years. On the other hand, maybe constant exposure to the Light (through transmission by a Master or texts) will produce the very same results. Who's to say? Who's to judge? How is the comparison made? I think the only possible way to make a comparison would be to look at the temperament, the patience, the humor, and the Love of the subject in question. I believe the proof is in the pudding. Another way to view this would be to look at the manifestations around us. Are they what we want? Or are they chronically unsatisfactory, with the same negative scenarios replaying themselves over and over? Such a good question. But WE ARE the manifester - and if things aren't according to our preference, there is some inner work that still needs to be done. We can't manifest in its purest state, we can't manifest Joy and love for others, if we're manifesting through a lens of anger, or jealousy, selfishness, or excessive ego.

I'm sure you're right, SC - I was just looking at it from the point of the eyes not being able to focus yet. I've not had kids so, Lerner, you're probably right about one such as me not giving her a break. I was giving it a Taoistic metaphor, as per the OP.

As luck would have it, I just sat down to read, I'm on page 980 of the Avatamsaka Sutra. There is a paragraph here that goes directly to what Hagar was pointing at, IMO: "The nature of things is uncreate, unchanging, Fundamentally pure, like space: So also is the purity of nature of buddhas - Their fundamental nature is not a nature, is beyond being and nonbeing."

LOL-ing even harder. I shall meditate on your words tonight and hopefully I will see the metaphor. I'm a bit slow, as you well know...

I hope so. Hopefully she's not addicted to her I-phone.

LOL. Would you be willing to expand on that?

That may well be true. But I think the Extent has changed.

Nice response, Mr. VK! And funnily enough, our gadgetry allows us to communicate with each other instantaneously (if we were in the Chat room), although we may be on different sides of the planet. Seeing as gadgetry is making the world 'smaller', there is apparently a good side to it as well. Look at all the social movements happening across the world now that wouldn't be nearly as effective if the word couldn't get out via internet and social media. I'm of the thought that time is curved and all has already played out; our concept of linear time is an illusion, as Einstein and others have proven the curvature of time. A good analogy being that the horizon appears as flat, although in reality the earth is round. So I'm wondering if there isn't a pragmatic reason why our children are being subjected to gadgetry at so young an age? I keep thinking that the world must return to a Oneness of sorts - the form of which I cannot see - but a Oneness none the less. Certainly the internet plays a huge part of this, if this is the case. Maybe the children of the future (such as the infant I was seated next to) will be needed to perform a particular function having to do with technology. If, as in the past, an infant (who is born of the One cell, which divides into two, which produces three, etc.) sees the I-Phone before it notices its mother and father's face (the metaphor here being the mother and father as the 'two and the three'), the infant will subconsciously perhaps place more emphasis on the gadgetry rather than the human contact with mother and father. Surely there must be a viable reason for this, which we cannot see yet. As above, so below. Microcosm / macrocosm. It has occurred to me recently that the infant, at birth, is a perfect metaphor for the function of the Dao. And the concept of the Universe. All is Mind. All is merely perception, each of us living in a separate world of perception. Awareness is he Thing. Just Awareness. The infant is perhaps aware of itself at birth (not in a self-conscious way, but in an I Need to Poop and I'm Hungry way). The infant's awareness expands to the two and the three, as in the beginning chapter of the TTC, because it sees and interacts with his parents. The remaining 10,000 things stem from that, a little at a time. Maybe we can't place a 'good' or 'bad' on this - I'm questioning how I titled the thread (Surely this can't be good for the baby?) It just IS, I guess. But boy, things are changing at the speed of light, it seems.

I think the will for enlightenment, as the Avatamsaka Sutra refers to, must be the driving force, although at the beginning, my impelling force was the will for sobriety; it then turned into something else some years later. Seemingly on its own, but I had to become K-active first. Marbles and Chi Dragon - the acquired personality (or post natal personality) is that which is acquired by conditioning of conditions after birth; they are reactive conditions, not the pure Dao within that we were born with. It is this that must be eliminated, the reactive part, which leaves us with the pure. It results in the living, every day realization, that there is no differentiation between the 10,000 things; that our bodies and the chair we're sitting on are all made out of the same matter, although with differently combined molecules. A pure joy is realized; it is as though an alchemical process has occurred within our minds, and we never see the world the same again. Taoist Texts - could you recommend a Taoist Text at the same level of the Avatamsaka Sutra? I love to compare all types of philosophical texts and see the commonalities within. The answers can be found in the Bible as well, but unfortunately you have to remove all the lore.

The post-natal personality.

Yes, I still have an attachment to chaw as well... Those '62 cars were murder. I once got hit by a '62 Studebaker while I was walking across a parking lot. Luckily it hit my backside. No surgery was required, just a steady and slow extraction.

And I think Brian drives one of those old bench-seat cars. I would think casting yarrows would be simpler than shootin dice. Also - Brian - did you ever get that bumper tied back up to the frame? I've been a little concerned, what with the sparks on the highway being so close to your gas tank and all.

I'm I child of the 60's and have never protested anything! I'd love to do so at this point in time re: the I can't breathe movement. I live about 30 mile south of Youngstown, OH - I'm specifically trying to find a protest on 12/7, Sunday - should be a decent day weather-wise here. I'd like to find something in Pittsburgh, Cincinnati, Youngstown, Weirton WV, Columbus, Cleveland - anything a reasonable driving distance away. I'm a member of the NAACP but can't find anything on their national website, although I do have an email in to them. I know if there's anything organized for Sunday, it would be reflected on Twitter. I just don't know anything about Twitter - I get on there and get all confused. I'm a techno-dinosaur. Can anyone help? I'd be really grateful. Barbara

Thank you, Lerner. No, it isn't about sides at all. We are all One - your nice remark made my heart melt.

HAHAHA! I hope you were buckled up at least, while you were posting, eating a hot dog, smoking, and sipping a beer all at once.

So we did it! It was actually a wonderful experience! First of all, the Mall that we went to were tolerant of protestors yesterday - but unbeknownst to us there had been an article in the Pittsburgh paper that protesters wouldn't be welcome today. So we didn't know we weren't supposed to be there doing that. But there we were - Apache Joe on his geezer-scooter wearing his Geronimo 'Fighting Terrorism Since 1492' t-shirt, and both of us going slowly around the mall, upstairs and downstairs, with our We Are All One signs - they were just small signs. The amazing thing was the different reactions we got! Some people would refuse to look at the signs, or look quickly away with their noses in the air. Other times, we'd get big smiles or thumbs up. But the best part was when I was holding my sign in the line at the Starbucks kiosk, and there was a 5 year old girl being held by her mother. The little girl asked me "Why are you holding that sign?", and before I could say anything, her mom said "Remember what we were talking about yesterday? That no matter if you're big or small, fat or skinny, or what color your skin is....we are all equal". Then the little girl asked me if she could hold the sign, and I gave it to her. She held it up for everyone to see. It was adorable! Well, we were escorted out by Security about two hours after we got there. The mall cop was a bit 'in your face' when he first approached us, but by the time he had escorted us out to the car, we were all laughing about things, and actually had a very nice conversation about how he too (like Joe) had neuropathy, and couldn't feel anything in his lower legs. And then - to top the day off - our GPS took us through the back roads to Pittsburgh and on the way back, we drove through a few Amish towns which I didn't know were even there - we were dodging a few horse and carriages, I imagine because they were coming back from church. A wonderful day! OK - now I'm back on my silk cushion, for any non-activists that may be reading this,

Yes I have, Stimpy. I've worked the other side as a cop. My motives are selfish. It is a step in the direction of weeding out any residual bigotry that may remain within my own heart. For too long I 'was' the white person with their foot on the neck of the black man to keep him down. This is something I feel compelled to do. I feel that the reason the white folks in this country still do their best to keep the black man down is because of the lurking karma that has been unpaid for all the horrors that were done to them. Fear is at the base, fear that the black race will rise up and give us our due. My own ancestors built slave trading ships in Massachusetts in the 1700's, and I suspect I am acting on their behalf as well. I feel that 'We are all One' is neutral in tone, and does get to the underlying. And yet, within the context of everything that's going on, it may reach one or two within this context.

I've decided what I'm going to do, and it will get it off my chest. I'm going to the Ross Park Mall in Pittsburgh - the scene of previous peaceful protests - and just stand there (close to the ladies' room) with a sign that says WE ARE ALL ONE. Perhaps that will remonstrate the underlying falsity.

It actually does change things over here, Vmarco - they have to listen eventually.

Thanks, BKA - I don't know how to do Facebook either, although someone did set up an account for me, I've never used it. I'll click on your link. And maybe I'll stick my toe into Facebook, but it makes my hands tremble just thinking about it

Funny. When I first got sober 33 years ago I had to come up with a higher power, for purposes of working the steps. The only concept that made sense to me was Gravity. Still does! Mutual attraction, or - looking at it another way - the attraction of objects with mass to each other. One could even look at it in a romantic sense and call it a type of love, an agape love, that is at the bottom of the Order.

Thanks, GreytoWhite - yes, there in the Sacramento / Bay area I would think it would be easy to find them. But I'm pretty remote here - in bubba-land, in fact. Not a lot of interest around here. I suppose I could just drive an hour into Pittsburgh tomorrow and hope that one pops up. Or I could walk around with a sign that says I Can't Breathe, in which someone would probably come up behind me and give me the Heimlich maneuver.

I think this is absolutely profound, Steve. That's kind of the same thing I was wondering earlier (can't remember if it was this thread). Do you ever wonder if there are other worlds and beings inhabiting this very space, only their sensory organs are different? We could be walking right through them. I could be sitting on someone's lap right now and not know it. And the sound things goes to 'what if a tree falls in the forest and there is no ear to hear it?' Did it make a sound? Even if we set up a tape recorder, it would function as the tympanic membrane and record it. I wish I could remember what type of apparatus Schroedinger set up to determine whether his cat lived or died. But because he devised a way of measurement that did not include an 'observer', the device was unable to tell - the point being that it was impossible without sensory organs. Now, I know someone is going to say 'Duh!' here, but it really was a clever setup that circumvented the sensory, somehow, but one would have inferred that it should have been able to do it anyway; but it couldn't. (And P.S. Brian - isn't it 'Love is kind of groovy with a spooky little girl like you?)

Well, you know that I'm kind of a spooky old thing...

I think the reason the conversation turned toward defining life is because it all arises from the dust and returns to the dust. Origin and Return.