manitou

Not quite sure what you said there, 4bsolute - but I am sorry if I pushed a button. You can call me Borderline if you wish - just don't call me Shirley.

I'll take it, lol

A new area to post in! I'm just going to kick this off by discussing my own understanding of Mind/Body/Spirit. The reason I feel motivated to do so is because the phrase 'mind/body/spirit' is such a nice merger of the three things we speak of in this forum. I've been involved in the healing arts for several years, maybe 7. I utilize a merger of two philosophies - shamanic ceremonies, and the philosophy of Mary Baker Eddy (but without using Jesus as the mediator). Mary Baker Eddy will tell us that it is all Mind. That disease is of the mind, created by ourselves; manifested because of a myriad of different stimuli throughout our lives. That our repetitive thoughts will draw us to a particular medical condition, and it is up to the Christian Science Practitioner to help the person 'see the reason for the malady', and change its direction. Of course, Mary Baker Eddy in her Christian Science uses Jesus as a basis for all healing - that 'only through him' can the healing be done, according to her system. But truly, the main concern is that "The Truth will set you Free". As to 'Jesus being the only way', I certainly don't agree with her on that one - but I have found that there are contortions very deep within us that need to be re-imprinted to the opposite, usually. As to her contention that All Is Mind, I can surely understand that. And I fully agree and have found to be dramatically useful in healings the 're-imprint' of a deep memory to change the direction of the patient's manifestations. How does this work? I haven't a clue - well, maybe I do. Personally, I've explained it to my satisfaction in the following way: Time is totally relative to space. Linear Time is a construct of our own brains. Therefore, if we can transcend Linear Time (by stopping our own thoughts), we can actually change the dynamic (and affect the disease that is a manifestation of the wrong thought process) because in reality "Then" is "Now". I truly believe that if we stay in this consciousness during a healing that it will work. I have had it happen. If you look at deep memories - childhood memories - it's as though they're a tiny snowball at the top of a mountain. Then, as life goes on, the snowball gets bigger and bigger as it rolls downhill; the small snowball is now a huge snow mass interfering with and affecting everything in the life of the individual. It is this first initial memory that Mary Baker Eddy would have us get to, to change the personality dynamic that's causing the disease. A large part of this is determining what the disease is trying to say to us. A recent person I worked with had paralysis from his neck down, but what caused it was that he was "paralyzed with fear" for his father, who forced him to enter a motocross race that he was fearful of entering. It was during this race that the accident happened and the paralysis occurred. So getting to the cause of the 'paralysis' (emotionally) was key to his body responding physically. This can be determined by looking at the current manifestations in a person's life and seeing the symbolic dynamic behind it - as to what is important to that person, etc. The reason my husband and I combine this with shamanic ceremony is to shake up the person's brain a little. If I approach somebody, even if they themselves asked for the healing - there is still a component of disbelief, strangeness, even embarrassment in the mind of the person standing there. But if we encompass the healing within a 'shamanic ceremony' of some sort, this puts their brain in a slight state of confusion (which for healing purposes I believe to be helpful) because of all the weirdness of the rattles, drums, etc. It's like they're no longer concentrating on what Joe or I are about to do, but they've been "transported" to a slightly different realm and seem to be more receptive and less resistant. This is just our twist, but it does seem to be helpful for us. To determine what the disease is really saying takes a certain amount of triangulation. Sometimes if we don't know enough about the disease, it takes a little internet googling to find out exactly which body parts are involved, etc - and once we look at it from the 'body's point of view' we can see what it's really trying to say to the owner of the body. As we do manifest from the inside to the outside (the I Am consciousness), then this makes perfect sense - that the body has a language all its own, and that Sickness is a part of the language. And yet, it stems from Mind. And it is Mind that must be dealt with.

What a perfect description of wu-wei, IMO.

The way I see it, all Past, Present, and Future are Now. So....in essence, this has all already played out. We're just going through the motions and playing our parts - like actors on a stage. Love is the answer. Doesn't matter if they love you back or not. Love is the best offense, to me. This type of agape love can be achieved once the self-importance of ourselves is lost. Plus....look back over your life and see how many times something you judged as 'negative' at first, turned out to be the best thing that ever happened to you. I think that's why it's pointless to label anything as negative or positive.

Very nice explanation! I see exactly what you're saying. It seems to me that gratitude is a 'feeling' as well as being a state of mind. The best gratitude is when the feeling and the admiration are felt simultaneously, IMO.

Here comes another 'plethora': I would say it's consciously acting from the point of Oneness, the ability to stay in the present when desired (sometimes we just have to do something else), combined with mastery over one's ego. I would also say that it is one that possesses the Three Treasures.

However it's said and by whichever translator - it is these three things that are a marvelous template within us when we get really serious about all this. This is what is 'aspired for', in one sense - but the strange thing is that it is it is more of an inner elimination of unnecessary tendencies that gets us there. Lose it to gain it.

A wonderful translation of the 3 Treasures. Lin Yutang says it slightly differently: Love (gentleness) Never too much (economy) Never be the first (shrinking from taking precedence)

My perspective is that Life and 'God' are One. We're it. That's what I mean when I think of non-duality. Admiration would seem to indicate that it is one thing admiring another, unless you're talking about self-admiration and all the ramifications that involves. It actually could be seen in a non-dual way, if you're including Self within the One. Do stop banging you head, oh Flat Foreheaded one.

Too dual

Going back to the original OP thread title, wherein the question is asked: "What exactly is personal energy?" I'll bet you'll get lots of opinions on this one. My take is that personal energy increases as we develop the ability to relax our body and our mind; we become more of a vessel for the flow of the universal energy. By having no tension in the body, the energy is free to circulate without getting stuck in a knot somewhere. By clearing our mind and diminishing the internal dialogue, our 'vision' is increased as well. Some might be thinking more along the lines of kundalini energy. Maybe this is part of it, I don't know. I know that the kundalini energy used to get stuck in the chakras when I first lit up. I took this to mean that the symbolic meaning of the particular chakra was something that needed to be worked on, in my life. So kundalini energy may be part of what the OP refers to as personal energy, although somehow I don't think that's quite it. All I can speak of is my own experience. I do 'run energy' through my hands for small healings (sprains, pain, headaches, stomach aches, things of this nature). For more extensive healings it requires a deeper type of vision to get down to the place in the psyche that is causing the malady - running energy (physically) doesn't seem to be as important here. But the running of energy, as others on this forum will most likely attest, does involve turning yourself into a type of 'vessel' by quieting the mind, breathing, and relaxing every possible muscle in the body that you can. Then the energy run is done with intent; and you do get verification that the energy is running by sensing a magnetic pull in the abdomen. If you are touching another with your hands, there is a sense of liquifaction of the inside of your body, almost like you have no organs and everything is just, well, liquid. There is also a totally different sense of connection or Oneness to the person you are touching. I'm sure that somebody who is proficient in qigong will have a totally different perspective as to what personal energy is. And certainly someone proficient in the martial arts would have an even different one. But there does seem to be different types of energy; an ambient energy which can be channeled through your hands to another, or the more pointed and direct kundalini energy which seems to come up from the earth. I still don't think this is what the OP was getting at about personal energy, but I thought I'd give it a stab.

Although the moon as a whole is always a reflection of the sun. So in that sense perhaps it can be considered that the sun is yang, the moon is yin. The sun radiates energy, while the moon is the 'receiver' of that energy and reflects that which is radiated.

Yes, nature is 'God', and that includes human nature. Count me in as well.

Couldn't have said it better myself..

You were at the last Hafla I performed in! This was my costume! Yes, I'm all up for springing one on Marbles.

Relief as a feeling is interesting. Personally, I don't see relief in gratitude - relief would be what I would feel after an anxiety-producing dynamic stopped. But of course, gratitude would ensue 'because' the offending dynamic stopped. I think that's a sort of double-pronged thing. The type of gratitude I'm thinking of is the type that swells in our breast when we're in the Here and Now, and when we see things for what they are - such a beautiful part of the grand plan - when normally we would just take that thing for granted. The simple things that we're given, and walk by them every day without noticing. Gratitude for the very life we're given, the beauty of nature. Of course there's the normal gratitude we feel when somebody gives us something unexpectedly, etc - a feeling of Thank You. But I think the gratitude we're speaking of here is of a deeper nature.

Joe finally surrendered to his alcoholism and realized that it had made his life totally unmanageable. He surrendered, threw his hands up, and got to a point in his soul where he finally realized by himself, that his lifestyle was ridiculous. When we were first together, I was new in recovery, and I would physically chase him with my car not to go down to the liquor store and buy more booze. That's how much I knew at that time. He just had to hit his bottom, that's all. There was no way I could 'hit his bottom for him' - he had to see it for himself. As he grew up pretty much an impoverished Native American street kid in New Mexico - his comfort zone was pretty expansive in the sense that he was used to being knocked around forever - mainly doing it to himself, of course - so it took quite a bit for him to say "Enough!" But he finally did. And it was only after I stopped chasing him and trying to "make him sober". That was the co-dependent interaction in motion. He was a bad actor, I would respond. That was the attention he was looking for, and that is what I would give him. It took me going to some Alanon meetings to stop trying to "fix him". To learn to stay in my own lane. So, when I stopped doing the co-dependent dance with him, it threw him into a quandry of having to take responsibility for his own life. No one can do it for you.

First of all, can you tell me where you're banking??? What a stellar post, Daeluin. Your description of the master attacking the student when he wasn't expecting it reminded me of several Peter Sellers movies, lol.

Damn, that was a great post, Andrei!

This is why I love Taoism albeit I'm not a Taoist either. i think I love the Taoist way of seeing things because it is nearly formless. The most formless mindset (or in a Taoist's case....'mindflow'!)

Posted by Daeluin: Ah! I had never realized humility was a human construct. Perhaps feeling it came from nature was my own confusion. Can you kindly help lead me to greater clarity? I've heard Chinese often view the heart and mind as one. When you say "it is the cultivation of the mind" here are your referring to both, or just one? How might I apply this understanding to greater effect? Is it * * * * **** Referring to Daeluins original questions: I see the heart and mind thing as the same form as the chakras - two adjoining cones, one pointing out, one pointing in. Two cones attached at the tips. As I see it, this is metaphoric for the heart/mind phenomena we're speaking of here. There is much outer knowledge to be gained. This is represented by one cone. There is much inner knowledge to be gained. This is represented by the other cone facing the opposite way. It seems to be when the two cones have been filled and emptied that Awareness occurs. The one cone will be filled with outer knowledge; the teachings of others. The other cone will be voided, the inner one. It's a removal process; a removal of preconceptions, opinions, and the faulty input of well-meaning people throughout our entire lives. Folks, I would think, would generally first be interested in the outer cone; the cone of knowledge of others. Once one is attracted to the Daoist or Buddhist mindset, then naturally one would start to learn all they could from others, both dead and alive. And there are more than a few folks who stay within the realm of this particular cone. True insight is never attained. But there is a contingent of us that emptied the one cone before filling the other one. Those of us who went down the wrong life path from the get-go. We are the recovering ones, who had to empty the inner cone first and change our perception of the world altogether. The alcoholics, the addicts, the street people. When recovery is truly attained, it is after years of inner work, removing our shadows. This, as I see it, relates to what Daeluin said, and truly is a human construct as far as getting to the bottom of our character. It is there that humility is found, when the I Am is found. So for the ones who emptied the one cone before filling the other, the reading of any spiritual literature, be it Daoist, Buddhist, Metaphysical, Mystic Christianity - it all makes sense. All of it.

You know what just occurred to me? I had a Buddhist friend that decided to do a year of not talking - I'm not sure what the discipline is called. The not-talking discipline, probably. I wonder if there is a spiritual component that is being imposed upon you because there is something there you need to experience or realize through non-communication verbally? Food for thought.

I'm familiar with towhees and it definitely wasn't a towhee. But your idea about other links is one I will follow up on later. I'll let you know if I find him. I just remember how quiet the mountains were - my mom and I used to be in the cabin reading books, and you could actually hear the sap drop off the trees! This was before the days of chain saws and weed eaters, apparently. Then, suddenly, those 5 descending notes would ring clear all over the canyon. I always looked to try and find the birdie but never could see him on a treetop or the outer branches. Which makes me think maybe it was a creeper. although it seems like a strange call for a birdie that would hug the tree trunk. I dunno.

Interesting post, GMP. It's like you finally get to a place where you can sit in the middle and relate to any of the religious or spiritual paths. Just different faces and different perspectives.