manitou

I agree. I think the surrender process it the important thing here - not the face of the god. In full surrender ego has to be set aside. Not an easy trick, and it takes much work. Then the trick is to outgrow the face of the god, to my understanding and experience. There's a saying in AA - EGO = Edging God Out. Although this still presupposes a separate god, the basic idea is good. No vision through the ego.

I'm delighted to hear that, can you explain your experience? Please? Pretty please?

Maybe he was thinking along Daoist lines, wherein 'when rules are necessary, the Dao is lost' (referring to man's seeming need for administrative structure via kings and princes) Industry promoting peace and morality? This was written before NAFTA. Beautifully said! This is why the Dao is lost when enforced morality is needed; it's just as you say - morality is a reflection of one's inner world. The 'De' of the DaoDeJing. He struggles against the current until he learns not to struggle against it any more. And how much valuable are our faculties of reason and conscious individuality become when we use them within the drift, IMO. If one surrenders to the drift, then one need not use up all their energy in fighting against it. The energy is left over for Seeing the order within the drift, and to see things coming in the distance within the drift. Staying within wu-wei keeps us in the drift. I think that we can expand 'the drift' to include cities, countries, the world. What a wonderful paragraph. Isn't it odd how on one hand we fall into believing that we are our body, as it says above, and this is error-thinking. and yet if we 'become the task' (merge with it) this is correct thinking.

3bob - are there really angel type beings, although unseen? I'm really asking, do you really think so? Are they metaphoric, or something you have had contact with in meditation?

I'd guess that the concept of gods started way back in prehistoric times when man first saw scary stuff; or perhaps when they saw fire for the first time and marveled. Something to protect them from the elements; one action or ceremony done (which appeared to "work" if the outcome was good) would have been repeated to the point of superstition. I would think this would come first; because the awakened Ones would have transcended exactly that: the religiosity. I think the awakening process is the exact process where we drop the religiosity in any form. No? It's like being "enlightened". Enlightened of what?

you're right. the sentence stands on its own. it has qualifiers out the butt.

isness + isness = suchness?

Couldn't agree with you more, Dawg. What you've described is a perfect dynamic universal machine; a machine which includes man, includes space, includes all living and non-living things; things seen and unseen. and it's entirely IMPERSONAL. The concept of a 'God' would relegate the karmic and reincarnative processes to be a result of judgment; punishment or reward. Whereas with the Impersonal model, there is no punishment nor reward in play. It merely Is, as you say, which depends entirely on the amount that we've learned as to where we're placed on the next go-round. More of a ladder thing, looking at it vertically. I do find it interesting that mankind has had the need to mentally picture and invent the Thing that protects him from the things he fears most. If we're lucky enough, whether from meditation, tantric sex, or even on a drug adventure, to actually experience the electrical current of life first-hand, then we are fortunate enough to have Actual Inner Proof to ourselves that we are part of something vast. it is no longer theoretical, we need not guess at it. We need not worry that we are 'separate from it' (as a God, whom people would implore to intervene on their behalf). Rather, we are It; at least this phase of It. We seem to be the reflective, self-conscious aspect of this whole enchilada, capable of magnificent things that other forms of life are not.

This is assuming that the person in question has done some growing.

I think it is a revelation to know it's there. Slow steady progress is all we can ask for, IMO.

No, but if you were in the Here and Now, you'd know it was time to sit down and play Pick-up Sticks.

It has occurred to me that what is happening Here and Now is always happening Outside. To get back into Awareness, for me, is as simple as going out and seeing what's going on with the birds and squirrels. They are truly here now; taking the time to get into their little birdie world for a moment will snap you to the present real fast. Nature is constant though always changing; but what a wonderful ballast nature is to get away from the monkey mind.

Yes, creating 'stops the world' and the knot is gone. i'm not identifying so much with the sitting still and suppressing myself reference. It doesn't seem to be that sort of thing. It's something I wake up with in the morning, it's there. Until I take steps to remove it. The general hovering anxiety of 'not doing something I'm supposed to be doing', the direct life conditioning of the young years. I do note that, as I've had to do this for years now (relax the beast) it does get slightly better over the years - but very slowly. Oh yes - there are many moments of beauty and bliss where it's not there. Those are the moments when the Awareness is 'ahead' of the body reaction. But when I allow the illusions of life to be in the front and forget to be in Awareness, this is when the knot always goes to its default position - clenched. I use it now as my Advisor. It lets me know when I'm not in the zone. It's similar to a shaman using 'death as an advisor'....to be in continual (as much as possible) awareness that this breath may be the last. To appreciate everything more.

No, I don't recall being tense at all. Just hard work in the hot sun. I'm retired, and I have no particular schedule. I've noticed that on the days when I've put a little structure into the day (like planning to mow the grass, trim the bushes, etc) my days have less stress in them. I was one of those kids whose folks were real pushers. Pushing overachievement, always. When i would be merely sitting in a chair, my father would immediately make me get up and "DO SOMETHING! IMPROVE YOUR MIND! CREATE SOMETHING!" The man was a 6'4" cop and real intimidating. This created an anxiety in me from real early on. I do believe that that same knot in the stomach, the knot that Amoyaan referred to, has been with me since early childhood too. Relieving the knot, which is always there - is a function of consciously removing the knot by deep breathing and disengaging every muscle I can without hitting the pavement. I wish that knot of anxiety was not there. But I'm pretty sure it will be with me ad infinitum - I have just learned to manage it. How to get to the point where it's not there at all? My guess would be that if I were serious about Qigong, martial arts training, etc, it would go a long way to alleviating the physical lump. The only thing that really gets rid of it is a Lot Of Physical Work. But it's there again the next morning. Just a general, hovering anxiety. Lack of trust in the universe? So this is my default position. Each day, sometimes hourly, sometimes more often than that - I seem to be engaged in the physical process of removing the lump. My inner visions, my inner learning and/or wisdom are the thing that I know "should" be able to remove it. To know that We (or I) am the Manifester should go a long way to removing the lump. After all, if we are the Manifester, what's to worry about? What I know after walking this path for eons, it seems - is that the assuredness that the Universe is truly a "friendly" place would be with me 24/7 by now. This is my goal, apparently. But i've a ways to go to have my inner body (the knot) align with what I know to be my truth. This is a merger that doesn't seem to happen overnight. It seems that it must be 'lived' for a period of time, or at least in my particular case. That life seems to be a big proving ground for us, to Prove to Ourselves that all is One - and if that mindset can be maintained (and the knot removed!), bliss ensues. Bliss is almost like the absence of anxiety.

some years back we had a trailer down in Baja California, south of Ensenada. We decided to paint the old thing on one vacation down there. We worked real hard in the morning on the trailer, then walked down to the beach and just relaxed in the afternoon. We did this every day for a couple weeks. Wow. I have never been more relaxed than that. Sometimes I think it was because of the slight amount of structure - painting the trailer - combined with nothing else to do in the immediate area. By the end of the two weeks we were on nature's schedule, getting up and going down with the sun. The sense of BALANCE was immediate, after a time. It was so humble. The trailer was so humble. the trailer park was really humble. That was part of it too - being barefoot in the Mexican dirt - interacting with the kids in the Mexican community that lived right there. We both felt like about 17 years old by the end of the vacation.

A zillion-eyed entity.

Republicans.

Your description of the physical symptoms is good! My sensation is that my innards are all melting together; feels like a combination of magnetic activity and a slight tingling. They say women feel it more in their ovaries, men in their stomach. But in either case, it's a sign to me that I'm on to the Truth, whatever the situation is. it's like a confirmation to me. It also happens when I am running energy to another through the hands - a feeling of magnetic drain from the ovaries.

It's still happening now, but you're not in awareness of it. your awareness is yesterday or tomorrow. What we want is awareness of this day, this moment. This is where training the monkey mind ceases the chatter and we can notice the smell of the grass and the feel of the sun on our face. Breathe! Life is here now! your soul probably waited for a long time to have its chance to come into the physical this time. Enjoy the ride right now, even if you're being evicted from your apartment.

Thanks for this topic, kajenx. In my personal experience, my growth into the Dao has been increasingly mixed with impartiality and non judgment. I find my emotions much more muted than they previously were; in fact, I was a slave to acting upon my emotions. i've always been a very impetuous person. The intense highs and lows of my youth have gone. Because we are all One, it is possible to be as happy for someone else getting the award and not us. We are One, for him to get the award is for you to get it. Most of the time, I am walking around in a silent joy that radiates; it's seldom that I get out of balance any more, so the sense is almost always with me. When it is not (because i've allowed myself to get entangled in someone else's illusion) I realize it quickly and quickly get back to a place of transcendence. I've found my life sort of dividing into two different motions: On one hand, it is possible to transcend any situation and see it "in the long run", which takes the imminent emotions out of it. And the other motion I've noticed is the tendency (and desire!) to 'become the task', or be One with the task. In this way, time is stopped in our mind and we are worrying about nothing else. I cut a small section of my acreage every day with an old push mower - no engine - and I so look forward to performing that task each day. I consciously put all my effort and muscles into it. It's like it says in the DDJ: there are two ways of seeing things (paraphrased) - you can know it by its essence (by throwing yourself into it), or you can know it from a very far distance (seeing its relationship in the workings of things)

I'll bet yin and yang operate much as a bow and arrow. When one pulls back, the other comes down, a constant interchange.

She understood that it had to be done with Love; she's recovering alcoholic for about 40 years at this point and has gotten to the bottom of her character. Although the whole thing conflicted with her religious outlook, it still worked because of the tie-in with jesus. Yes, the mother issue (as manifested by breast cancer) was definitely why she was manifesting the event. I hope the buried people are okay - but on the other hand he was about 50 years old and really didn't need to be moving back in with Mom. she was in a true quandry. She did get up the nerve to ask them to leave after the ceremony. Can you tell us about one or two of the truly metaphysical things the young folks were capable of doing?

ZYD said: apparently she and her husband, Joe do a lot of good work. We let it come to us - we don't go out looking for it. 'Spirit' seems to bring just the right people in our lives at the time they need healing. We don't charge either - I think that would rip the life and the intent out of it. Maybe I'm wrong there, but it works for us.

Is anybody else having trouble with the email notification device? I'm finding that threads continue on without my being notified of a post. Just my machine?

How do you feel about the mind of a child, BKA?