manitou

This is going to be a wonderful project, this thread. In just reading the little bit of Ficino that ZYD referenced, the following essences jumped out at me. I'm not real familiar with these philosophers, so this is no doubt old news to everyone else. But here's what I saw: Ficino sees Platonic Wisdom as True Christianity. I have often felt the same way about Plato. His words certainly reflect more of the loving intent of the master Jesus than any modern-day interpretation that I see. Ficino didn't consider someone a friend unless they had 'joined literary learning with uprightness of character'. This is the crux of the matter, IMO. If we're not walking our talk, we're just talking out our butt, pardon the expression. It takes the 'chemical' merger of the refined personality with the intellectual understanding. The personality doesn't 'refine' on its own. This we must do on our own. There is further mention of 'potentially idolatrous 'statue animation". Wow. if we are One, part of the All, then is it not possible to use our Awareness to infuse an object with a capability or intent?

From ZYD's post: John Deck's purported aim in this book is to provide an explanation of Plotinus' claim in Ennead III.8 that "Nature contemplates". Plotinus himself is aware that this doctrine, that trees, and even rocks, contemplate, will seem strange to his contemporaries. .............. John Deck's goal is to make Plotinus' claim that "nature contemplates" sound plausible, as a metaphysical description of the actual world we live in, to a modern ear. I think this is a worthy goal. It's interesting that don Juan Mateus told Carlos Castaneda that nature's job was to give, and it only cared that we came to visit once in a while.

Damn you're good. I base my certainty on the meditative experience of losing the personality and finding myself part of the greater whole. Yes, I do think there is something common within all of us, that we are attached one to the other. that we are all actually the same entity in a zillion different forms. But what I always come back to is the black spots in our eyes. We all seem to share that, even animals and insects. This is the manifestation of awareness, the black void in our eyes. This is a remnant of the manifestation of the One, as I see it. When this is remembered, 'God' (or It) can be seen in everything. It's an awareness device.

You've done a very good job of expressing that which is 'experiential knowledge' as opposed to book-learning. I think that's how we teach ourselves, how we uncover the truth. Through the analogy that our minds conclude when the situation aligns in a particular way. It's an inside job, a result of our own experiences. The internal 'Aha!' results. Your pot analogy reminds me of the DDJ, wherein it is ascertained that the functional part of the cup is its vacancy.

Steve said: Empty, one might say, or ineffable, un-nameable, etc... I think this is why the DDJ starts with the caution - from here on out, everything that is written is not "it" because you can't ever capture "it" in words and concepts. No credible tradition defines the undefinable, only beginners, institutions, and fundamentalists do that because they don't (want to) know better. It occurred to me the other day that the Dao is much like the hole in the life saver. it defines the genre of candy by its non-existence. Otherwise, you'd just have a stinkin' mint.

I listened to snippets of this interview - I was particularly taken with his clarity about taking responsibility for the events that happen in his life - not looking for places to place blame. Acknowledging the part he played in the events of his life. I like his comments regarding exploration of the self. Thanks for the link, GreytoWhite

I think you're spot on. As it says in the DDJ, "between "ugh" and "ah", how much difference is there? This is why looking at things as Good or Bad is not helpful to clarity. They just Are, no judgment. It amazes me how many times in my life I felt that something 'happening to me' was Bad, and yet later when I looked at it, I realize that it was probably the best thing that could have happened at that moment. it's all so very relative.

My understanding is that we're doing life in the sense that we manifest that which is in front of us, that which happens to us. If We are part of the Whole, who is doing the manifesting? Us.

Well,on this thread Manitou said it

You may indeed see the shadow Of one you don't understand; Recognizing the shadow as a manifestation of You but magnified on its illumined walls. for the Light is behind you; your density creates the darkness of the shadow; Your return to lightness and love will render the shadow lighter; the light no more blotted out by rigid and ingrained feelings, thoughts, and habit. A heart turns to stone because of expectation. True love, agape love, expects nothing in return. We are content to remain anonymous, a great obsession; our gifts we give freely, our love is given freely and expecting nothing in return. The heart remains soft through exchanged actions.. Our challenger, our nemesis, is our ego. Defending itself at all costs, it justifies, blames, distorts, deceives us. It enables us to maintain our rigid beliefs, our ego requiring us to defend it at all costs. To gain mastery of the ego is to perceive the object without the lens of ego-protecting inner distortion. To hammer down the ego is a painful process, and every opportunity to look for the shattering situation only speeds up the results. Welcoming the moments where the ego may be shattered makes the process more of a game and a little more tolerable. The greater One we wish to understand is contained within the microcosm of our selves. It has been said by Wise Ones to Know Thyself. This, surely, is the reason; to discover Self is to discover God. Not flying out there in the sky, but contained within our own relationship to the macrocosm, the cosmos. We are, in our Very Essence, each a physical part of something much greater than ourselves, and together, combined, we are the Whole. The expressive part of the Whole. The trees, plants, rocky, and sky all have their part to play as well. Ours is to be Self-Conscious, capable of living in past, present, and future; whereas a chipmunk or tree lives very much in the Eternal Now. To enter the Eternal Flow is its own reward; striving is no longer necessary. Life comes to you with both gifts and requests. There is a call within to live up to the request; To not do so would be less than impeccable to one's own self. (M. Anitou)

This story doesn't have a happy ending, does it? Yes, I agree that there is something profound in the focus of the moth, a prisoner of his own mental construct. There is indeed an analogy to be made in our lives - how we get entrenched in our habits, how much we miss because we're entrenched in our daily habits. How limited our vision is because we assume that our own perspective is the correct 'reality', and minimize the perspective of others, in favor of our own. If only his consciousness had been a bit expanded.....

Maybe Kurt wasn't doing it right.

That mushroom is incredible. Your blog page is astounding. And how nice to find another birder......

Love your self honesty, Rocky. Allow me to be the first to thank you for your restraint level And I really like your phrase 'observe and scrutinize ourselves'. This is the key, IMO. We are rocks in a lapidary hopper, making each other better and more refined in our observations about things within and things without. The unexamined life is not worth living.

interesting you say that, SonoftheGods - I think that's in my cycle with TTB's too. Sometimes I just have to get away from the forum - but I've also learned that in my particular case my feelings are usually the result of a banging of my own ego in some way, and my own resultant discomfort. So I let a little time go by, stay off the forum, and always want to get back to it sooner or later. More recently I go through periods where I feel like I have absolutely nothing to say about anything at all. So, one more time, I'll lay low for a few weeks, or a month. But sooner or later I miss the discussions. More accurately, I miss the Minds on this forum. I miss the bantering; but more importantly, the sense that TTB's are building a virtual mountain of wisdom and return to Oneness, a virtual library of the evolution of the wisdom that we've gained through years of thinking through these concepts together. We are contributing in a concrete yet virtual way to the evolution of the species; and for some of us who leave behind no children, this may be the only mark of consequence that we make on mankind at all. It is, in its own way, a community of honor and a return to the light. Fallible we are, but we are all guided by the same urge toward unity of self, both individually and collectively. I surely am one that hopes you stick around. Or take a short break and come back to us soon. Manitou

I think Richard Feynman is right on.

But it seems to me that all Religions fit within Daoism (not speaking here of religious Daoism, but philosophical). Of any construct of thought (religion) that I've ever seen, they all fit within the very vague construct of Daoism. they fit within Daoism, but Daoism doesn't fit within their boxes. Many of us have found Daoism just by coming across the DDJ, as in my case. Beyond that, I'm not sure that it's absolutely necessary to 'believe' in the mythology to work - the whole field of metaphysics picks up the slack.

Bob, have you ever gotten to that place in meditation where your personality dissipates? Maybe this is what they refer to when they say 'only Nothing can enter into no space'. It is actually a terrifying moment - not blissful at all. You are truly ALONE out there in space. A feeling like no other. The other option, I suppose, is dying.

Dawei - another thought. This thing that we're trying to describe also involves mastering ego and getting it out of the way to see the Flow. Combining this with 'taking the highest action' at every decision also ensures that the Flow will be uninterrupted. This is not to say that we have nothing to say about anything, though. The sorcerer can Set His Intent at the beginning of a dynamic and use the above method to effect change. it's just that Time isn't under our control and we must use very distant eyes to see the dynamic in all its glory. Does this match your experience?

No way.

Yes, we are stuck with space and time. But i do enjoy looking at a situation without time interposed - as though hovering over it and seeing the necklace without the links of time - to see them all smooshed together so that their true form is seen. This can be done. I think that 'removing' time from the equation for purposes of seeing how the dynamics fit together can be done; like a puzzle, all at the Same Time. it's abstract and nearly impossible to put into words.

i couldn't agree more. If this has been done, an expanded mind results. It is from this perspective that the dynamics of the situation (or personality, in a healing sense) are seen. The flow is all One, and one is able to see the flow in its true form.

i think this is why the sage makes no judgments. The 'fake' and 'unreal' are part of it all too. Because it isn't balanced at this moment, in front of us, doesn't mean it isn't balanced in another way, unseen. I think it's important to realize that time is an illusion, that it's all happening here and now. The Dao 'did' the 1, 2, 3, and 10,000 - but it continues to do so. And will continue doing so. it's never stopped, it's not in the past.

Strangely, some of us happened upon Daoism when they were on another path. Daoism, to me, is the hub of the wheel. Sticking with any viable path over a period of time will develop the necessary desire to become better people, to learn to love our brother as ourselves (please excuse the Jesus quote, but those words reside in the Dao as well), and to be as fluid with nature as we can be. Nature provides the lessons and the answers - those who can stand back and watch the dynamics of nature, thereby extrapolating our own answers to life. We are the microcosm for the macrocosm. As someone said earlier, 'Know Thyself'. By truly knowing the positives and negatives of our own personality (and with an earnest attempt to rectify the negative) we can know the cosmos. We know all others, because we come to the vivid realization that we are all One - we are all the Same Creature, somehow. The Dao is the place where nothing can hurt you. it is the ability to elevate your vision to rise above the apparent workings of life, and yet to realize that the truth lies in the dynamic, not the details. We who love the Dao know that it is a constant place of refuge, and a constant place of inspiration. We become One with it; the more fully we are able to embrace the dynamic and the understanding, the more synchronistic and like-clockwork our lives become. To live in the Dao is to realize that all things are going to go as they are going to go; row, row, row your boat, gently down the stream. It seems like backwards, being in the Dao. The further Inside we travel, the more we can see the Outside. There really is nothing to 'do'. Know Thyself, and all else will be Known. And this is the trick. How to best do that? How to know ourselves with the darned ego in the way? All paths lead to the Dao, IMO. Shamanism, mystic christianity, metaphysic - these are in my own experience. the Dao is merely the place of stillness, or the 'peace that passeth understanding', the heart at peace, the place where No Thing Is and yet within it is contained the template for All. How silly to try to encircle it with words.

Great post, Lerner! Your paragraph here instantly reminded me of the movie Gandhi, with Ben Kingsley. There was a point (when he was organizing his community and his non-violent march) that a reporter came up to him and said "Boy, you certainly are ambitious!" Gandhi replied "I certainly hope not!"