manitou

Because Te (virtue) is our original nature, undefiled by 'every departure from the Dao which contaminates one's spirit'.(as it says in the above passage) This is saying that the way to remove the contamination, over the cycle of lifetimes, is to practice virtue in the sense of wanting nothing for self and all for others. I imagine that would be a pretty good way to decontaminate the spirit, consistent with the dynamic of elimination of the dross of our nature in order to find the essential.

Takaaki - your view of the essence of the Tao is lacking a little love. The man made of uncarved wood is one that has had his rough edges removed, no longer contends, finds compassion for and in all things. He knows that the man who speaks doesn't know, and the man who knows doesn't speak. You, like many of us, may have remnants of our old Type A-ness, that thing that served us so well when it was our time in life to heap up things in life; and we, the lucky ones, at some point get to find out that the heap of stuff didn't have one iota of bearing on our happiness. We needed to maintain a mental rigidness to obtain what we needed to win. Your reliance on self-reliance fails to realize the wu-wei that does exist when we get our inner selves out of the way. It is a current we tap into, a wave we ride. To insist on self-reliance denies the serendipity required to find the current. Your reliance on abundance is understandable, but fear also lies at the bottom of that pile as well. the trick is to feel no fear when there is no abundance; perhaps its only at this time that the undercurrent of the Tao is found. By actual experience. To deny that your desire for abundance is not based on fear doesn't have a clear ring. Your desire to push ahead and not be a shirker is one that we have all had to get under; those who understand the concept of wu-wei. Wu wei is not to "make things happen", rather, it is to "let things happen". There is a huge difference in the inner human dynamic between the two; can you feel it? To make things happen is to gear up, to be tense, to focus our mind in a limited way on our particular desired result. Can we truly say that we know the very wisest given result? We think we know, but we do not. But, contrarily, to "let things happen" is to acknowledge that our thinking is limited and to tap into the Tao. We instantly relax every muscle we're capable of relaxing at that moment, we empty our minds, if we are touching another human being we realize the state where there is no separation between the touch of their hand and yours. It is in this sense that a cosmic alignment of sorts, a oneness of purpose, takes place. Please consider finding your source of anger, Takaaki - as knowledgeable as all of your posts are, there is an undercurrent of challenge and anger that will aways impede your vision until you can understand it and adjust the lens slightly.

and does it mean what I think it means?

Lin Yutang wrote The Importance of Living - he spends much time glorifying the scamp; goes so far as to say that the scamp is the hope for mankind; the one who does not fit into the mold, follow the rules, disregards convention. This truly was my thought of the village idiot - really sorry if I offended anyone's sensibilities.

Jeez. No chance of the village idiot comment being passed off as a bit of humor? And please forgive my mispelling of machinations. This thread is tending toward anality. Probably no such word, and if there is, I probabaly misspelled it.

I thought it might be interesting to compare the various translations of the three treasures of the Sage, contained in the TTC, chapter 67. It seems to me that a triangulation of several translations might well get to the Essence, more than any one translation; rather like a study of comparative religions ultimately leads to the Oneness of all as a common overlay. I would like to comment on Lin Yutang's translation, along wih the translation of Stephen Mitchell. It's my opinion that the 3 treasures are attributes which the sage develops within himself; I don't think he's magically born with them. My view is that it takes desire, it takes work, it takes impeccability, it takes uncovering one's true self to get to the point of possession of the 3 treasures. It is here for any of us, if the desire is sufficient. In Lin Yutang's version, a section of chapter 67 reads: I have Three Treasures; Guard them and keep them safe: The first is Love (Yutang footnote - tender love, associated with the mother) The second is, Never too much. (footnote: "frugality", "be sparing") The third is, Never be the first in the world. Through Love, one has no fear; Through not doing too much, one has amplitude (of reserve power); Through not presuming to be the first in the world, One can develop one's talent and let it mature. ...........For love is victorious in attack, and invulnerable in defense. Heaven arms with love those it would not see destroyed. Discussing these 3 treasures, Love is possible once one sees all life as One. There is no separation between selves; to look into the eyes of another, be it human, animal, or insect, is to look at the black void in the center of their eyes. It is all the same void. We are all the same entity; to smile at another is to smile at one's self. To hate another is to hate one's self. When one remains in the awareness of Love and Oneness, this seems to ensure that things flow as they are intended to flow. a weapon, yes. The second of Yutang's treasures, 'Never too much' involves not only frugality, but frugality as an end result of one's own character efforts. This involves the ability to put one's self second; to let the other be first, take the largest share. It involves losing the competitive nature. How did the sage gain this attribute? Not by following the selfish instincts most of us learn in our young life. It takes subjugating the ego so that we are not prisoners to our own well-being first and foremost. The same is true of the third treasure, Never be the first in the world. I, for one, was brought up to be the first in the class; to win any race I was entered in. To seek promotion above all, within my career. the ironic thing is that if we are impeccable in our thoughts and actions, the elevation will come to us naturally, in its own time. There is no need to grapple and step on others. This again involves the subjugation of ego, an examination of our own character, an examination of our own motives always. Turning to the translation of Stephen Mitchell, he writes: I have just three things to teach: Simplicity, Patience, Compassion. These three are your greatest treasures. Simple in actions and in thoughts, you return to the source of being. Patient with both friends and enemies, you accord with the way things are. Compassionate toward yourself, you reconcile all beings in the world. In Stephen Mitchell's excellent chapter notes at the back of the book, he notes the following regarding the treasures: I have three treasure which I preserve and treasure. the first is compassion, the second is frugality, the third is daring not to be the first in the world. Whoever has compassion can be brave. Whoever has frugality can be generous. Whoever dares not to be the first in the world can become the leader of the world. But to be brave without compassion, generous wihout frugality, prominent without humility: this is fatal. Whoever shows compassion in battle will conquer. Whoever shows compassion in defense will stand firm. Heaven helps and protects those with compassion. For those who take seriously the TTC and wish to live their lives according to the dynamics contained therein, the Three Treasures seems to me to be the most succinct directions on how to become a Sage, should one be interested. The 3 treasures seem to describe an intensely personal journey into one's own ego, one's own motives, one's own desire for personal stature. I don't see this as something that comes 'naturally', but there may be many here who differ with that opinion. I think it takes serious work. I look forward to other translations of the 3 Treasures for discussion?

I read once in an occult Yogi book the expression 'the oak is in the acorn'. For some reason this hit me deeply. It's like the potential, the hidden blueprint, is contained within. It all seems to boil down to 'the idea behind the phenomena'. that's also the concept of the Native American 'manitou' - the spirit that underlies everything. It is also an acknowledgment that time is an illusion, in a way. the past, the present, the future are all contained within that one acorn. (P.s. Marbles - please know that my 'Duh' was a very loving 'Duh'. Perhaps even a teasing 'Duh'.

What a strange discussion this will turn out to be. Are you serious in your questions? the village idiot as used in the context of this thread is probably used for only one purpose; one considered the village idiot will not be manipulative, will not be arrogant in his belief that he has the answers, will not be Machiavellian. He is close to the newborn child, in this sense, because his motives remain clear and he has been undefiled by the mechanations of life. Obviously this won't work for a village idiot that also has a passive-aggressive side, or a sociopathic side. I think it's the innocence that is the thing here. Hopefully Professor Bokenkamp shares the non-judgment and innocence of a young child and *some* village idiots.

Duh, lol Maybe singularity can be seen as Latency, Potential.

You know, maybe I'm wrong here, but I just never felt that Confucius went deep enough. That's why I will allude to Tao even though I know we're doing Confucius - but in order to triangulate Confucius I always use the Tao as my cornerstone. May be way too simplistic though. Good expansion, by the way t

Well, first I had to look up 'blandishments'. somehow in all my 66 years of existence this word had never come to my notice. This stands to reason. If someone is enticing or attempting to convince someone of something (and puposefully doing so with a gratifying face) this is a salesman. The person who knows doesn't speak. the person who speaks doesn't know. If someone is trying to entice someone into something, this is against the Tao. How does kindness fit into this? I'm not sure, ChiDragon - maybe you can figure it out? Because kindness is opposed to convincing in some way? Because the man of knowledge would kindly look upon the other man's position and realize that that's where he is at this place in time? Maybe you can expand on this?

TWENTY SIX That mysterious vital energy within the mind: One moment it arrives, the next it departs. So fine, there is nothing within it; So vast, there is nothing outside it. We lose it Because of the harm caused by mental agitation. When the mind can hold on to tranquility, The Way will become naturally established. For people who have attained the Way]It permeates their pores and saturates their hair. Within their chest, they remain unvanquished. (Follow) this Way of restricting sense-desires And the myriad things will not cause you harm.

This dovetails with something we were talking about in a book study down in The Pit. I analogized this potentiality as the moment of pregnant silence when a conductor raises his baton in a symphony - you can hear a pin drop, there is 360 degrees of potentiality for what comes next. If a violinist then plays one single strain of a note, this brings the potentiality down to 359 degrees. the entire opus is a diminishing of potentiality, one note at a time. and morphs into structure. Yes, I do believe that the great colloid in which all is suspended is Thought. So glad you're here, by the way! Your cultivated brain is a wonderful addition to our community.

The village idiot doesn't have as much to undo as the rest of us. I came to the conclusion years back that the best way to uncover the secrets of the TTC was by triangulating the translations of many translators. Because the tome is so ambiguous due to the various translations, the commonality of essence is only found by triangulation, IMO. And then, the translation by any particular person is completely contingent on the spiritual adeptness and capacity for abstractness of the individual translator. It's nearly impossible - and yet we spend much time and energy dancing around the void that can't be expressed. But we are getting closer all the time.

Funny how people with dementia live so well in the moment, lol. If we put down all these damn books and just wait for dementia to set in, we'll be there with no effort at all. I expect my full awakening to happen within the next 5 years or so. then you will have to address me as Rinpoche or Master or something. I was looking further down in the book - page 25 - and there is a paragraph that jumps out at me. "On another occasion, when I encountered Orgyan Tsokyey Dorje - the enbodiment of the magical illusion of timeless awareness - he bestowed advice for refining my perception of things so that I could see that they are illusory. He said, "For me to untroduce you directly to the interdependence of causes and conditions coming together, consider this: The cause is the ground of being as basic space, which is pristinely lucid and endowed with the capacity for anything whatsoever to arise. the condition is a consciousness that conceives of an 'I.' From the coming together of theswe two, all sensory appearances manifest like illusions." It occured to me once when I was attending a symphony that the moment when the conductor raises his baton, that moment of pregnant silence when everyone is waiting, is exactly what is described above: a moment pristinely lucid and endowed with the capacity for anything whatsoever to arise....I realized, when the music started, that the music was an elimination of possibility. The raised baton contained 360 degrees of expressive potential. By limiting the sound to a single note or notes is to eliminate 359 degrees of possibility and settle on the one degree that is expressed; the commitment has been made. The limitation has begun.

The Art of War is quite a phenomenon to me. How it manages to encapsulate the broad and abstract concepts contained within the TTC as a manual for warfare is incredible. But it mirrors the TTC - letting life come to us, letting the war come to us. Nipping things in the bud before they get big. Never leading with ego. Being the reluctant general and seeing the sadness in the victory. Doing by not doing, by utilizing the natural way. By understanding your own nature so you can understand the nature of the opposing general. It's all there. It seems to be the manual for the implementation of the Tao when we are unfortunate enough to have a war lying at our feet. RE; James Legge - Marbles - The word that is interesting to me is Economy. I've seen this usage in M. Blavatsky books. Economy in her sense seems to be 'the way things work', as opposed to thinking in a monetary sense. There is an old community not far from me in Pennsylvania called Old Economy; so named because it wanted to tap into 'God's economy' - the ways of the universe, the ways of the seasons, of nature. Living close to and off the land. But in this Taoistic sense it could also be the Economy as alluded to in the translators that opted for 'Never Too Much', as Yutang did. To be satisfied with just what we need, undiluted by greed.

These two stanzas can go directly to ego too, as I see it. the more frugal we become (and I interpret that as requiring fewer and fewer things as we gain in wisdom and realize that external things don't do much to fulfill us) the less we need to go out and grab for ourselves. The humbler life becomes, we become. Our world is Here Now, not Out There Somewhere Else. But how this goes against our grain, to not be the first; or at least, many of us. Those of us in the Western world have been given the message to Eat or be Eaten for many years; in many cases it takes a 180 degree turn within ourselves to develop the willingness to let others be first, get the recognition, or get a larger share. It goes against our self-preservation gene to some extent until it is taught that that which is gained is of more value than that which is lost.

I like the second part of the quote ; It naturally comes about, not by effort but by letting go. A Buddhist would say letting go of attachments, which would necessitate examining one's own reason for the attachment and acting thereupon to remove the attachment. A self-realization path would accomplish the same, but by examining one's own defects within character which impede clarity. A shamanic path would involve a recapitulation that both involved removing that which impairs the vision, and seeking those pivotal moments of time within one's own life which directed the inner direction. A Taoist would develop the attributes of the Sage by self-development which would result in possession of the three treasures, certainly a journey through ego. A Yogi would understand the nature of the animal natures within us; to seek them out, to separate ourselves from the particular trait in question, to achieve clarity. The mystic mysteries as understood by the Essenes would have the seeker Know Thyself; a proposition that would utilize any or all of the above. At any rate, it does appear that Virtue is developed by the dissolving. Dissolving of all the extraneous character traits and tendencies within us which impede our communication with the Tao/Essence/God/Great Spirit/Brahma/Buddha/Savior which resides at the very base of our personality. The pony under the pile. It is found by dissolving the dross.

Was I judgmental today? Was I arrogant? Was I appreciative of nature and spirit manifesting around me? Did I return unkindness with kindness? Did I do everything with the most loving heart I could? Did I keep my word, even in the smallest details? Did I try to be impeccable in my thoughts, words, and actions? Did I see all people as One and not place one over the other in my estimation? Was I demonstrative of the Three Treasures possessed by the Sage? Never be the first....never too much....Love (Yutang translation) Did I "let it be" when it was called for? Was my ego tame today? Was I tolerant of right wingers, lol?

I think for anyone who is serious about the path of spirit, it is important to internalize the TTC and to use the mindset of the Sage in our everyday life. How close can we come to having the mindset of the Sage? How close can we be to possessiing the 3 Treasures of the Sage? I see the TTC as more of an owner's manual for the human spirit. This same owners' manual can be found at the far reaches of any tradition - in my study of various philosophies, which has been pretty extensive over the years, they all seem to come down to Know Thyself - which to my way of thinking is what is necessary to develop the treasures. But the TTC is so very valuable because it seems to be the condensed essence of all paths boiled down, boiled down to the One, where they all lead in their terminal endings. It is short. It is easily internalized, and when triangulated with various translations, I don't think there's much human wisdom that isn't found in there.

I think that the initial manifestation was both male and female, is that called andromorphous?. We have devolved into separation. Our real nature is the One, prior to the divisions of the sexes; prior to the yin and yang of male and female. This is the mindset we can return to if we exert the effort to do this. Every single day, every single moment, is an opportunity to strive for the awareness of the Oneness of everything. In order to do this, it's best to look at the idea 'behind' or underlying everything, what it represents. Money, for example. What does that represent? It represents stuck energy, that's all. What do we represent? An entity capable of feeling the surrounding area. What's the idea behind this? the Tao coming into its own? Fulfilling its own idea? We seem to be the machine through which it experiences.

Isn't this the most wondrous lesson to learn in life? To do by Not Doing? This mindset removes all anxiety from anything, as far as I can see. Making one's self available in basic conscious awareness. What you describe as the Great Mystery could also be called Latency. I always go back to the Oak being in the Acorn. The blueprint is there always. The manifestation takes its time. Your observations about the relativity of our senses in comparison to external objects is wonderful. A rock is hard because our skin is soft - so nicely and simply said. Looking at page 33, there is a paragraph: "This space, since it cannot be injured, is invulnerable. Since space cannot be conqured or destroyed, it isi ndestructible. Since space abides as the basis for the unfolding of the world of appearances and possibilities, it is authentic. Since space cannot be altered by flaws or positive qualities, it is incorruptible. Sicne space is free of transition or change, it is stable. Since space completely permeates even the tiniest sub-atomic particle, it is in all ways unobstructed. and since nothing whatsoever can damage it, space is in all ways invincible." As I was reading this, it reminded me of a balloon (or, if you prefer, a bellows, as it would say in the TTC) The balloon is there whether or not there is air in it. It is by breath inflating the balloon that manifestations take their rise. I sometimes think of the universe (as produced by the big bang) as being the other side of a white dwarf. Maybe the universe just breathes its manifestations in and out. This is an interesting paragraph (page 47). "You may think that the relative validity of dream images is not equal to that of waking appearances. But think of all the dream experiences and waking experiences from your birth until the present - the activities and occupations, the effort and striving, the saving and planning. Consider whether these are equal. If you examine them closely, without considerering the short term versus the long term or more versus fewer occurrences of such experiences, you will arrive at the decision that they are equal." This seems to be saying that our dreams and our physical life are one and the same. I guess they would be - it's all thought ! All we have to do to understand this is to remove the concept of time and the concept of quantity (more vs. fewer) to see that this is the case. We spend 'more' of our 'time' in the waking hours. We sit at the intersection of Time and Space to experience manifestation. Note: Actually, I'm finding that trying to follow the outline is a little cumbersome. I've taken to just picking out interesting paragraphs in the book

As soon as I read this, it came to mind that this seems to be what the U.S. is struggling with now.....repubs vs. dems, or at least the very hidden and underlying thought: Do we take care of persons we feel are not "deserving"? There is a strong and deep mindset that says what's mine is mine, I earned it, I don't want to give any of it away, and screw all those who can't cut the mustard. Are we our brother's keeper? Can the two ever reconcile?

Talking about PART TWO; Revealing the Meaning of the Main Text as the Purpose of the Undertaking. The first major section, Reaching a decision through view, has four subsections. Mentioning the first one: A. Reaching the definitive conclusion that all phenomena are inexpressible emptiness. (pg. 189) 'Personal identity' is merely an impression; underlying the personal identity impression is the awareness of an underlying consciousness, the concept of "I". the "I" dwells nowhere in the body - that must be transcended. (I think again of your idea of the space between the thoughts). the other side of this is to reach a conclusion regarding the nonexistence of the identity of phenomena. To try and place labels on things; one can see the physical manifestation of a thing's properties, but it seems that the totality of any object is more of a 'verb' that is descriptive of function rather than anything that actually exists in perpetuity. To me, this goes hand in hand with the concept of there not really being any 'time' either. Because our brains are laid out to see in a linear fashion, we are actually looking at phenomena which is timeless - there is no before, during or after. It's all happening now, only we're watching a 3-d movie without 3-d glasses. In order to understand the nature of a phenomena, one must include the Idea for the phenomena, but without the time-interference; rather, as a totality of yesterday, today, and tomorrow. Somehow this Dream is laid out that we are placed at the intersection of the illusion of Time and Space Row row row your boat Gently down the stream, Merrily merrily merrily merrily Life is but a Dream (Steve - I'm going to Calif. for a week to move my mom into the dementia ward at her assisted living place. I probably won't be online for a while - talk to you when I get back).