manitou

Chapter 3 All the forms of the mind Are naturally infused and filled with it (the vital essence), Are naturally generated and developed (because of) it. It is lost Inevitably because of sorrow, happiness, joy, anger, desire, and profit-seeking. If you are able to cast off sorrow, happiness, joy, anger, desire and profit-seeking, your mind will just revert to equanimity. The true condition of the mind Is that it finds calmness beneficial and, by it, attains repose. Do not disturb it, do not disrupt it And harmony will naturally develop. Comments?

...This is a gathering of Lovers. We do not judge you here; we allow you your joy, your sorrow, your arrogance, your pride. Us Lovers are the ones Who have come to love the human within us all Because we have come to find The human in ourselves. The Bums are a gathering of Lovers.

Just think how frightened the embryo must feel before the moment of delivery, after the violence of the labor. The embryo is probably petrified, fearing death. Perhaps he actually feels like he dies the moment before he gasps for air. Maybe our death is just one more birth, and we too are the ones in the womb fearing delivery.

The more one gains in spirituality, it seems that the importance of manual work takes on a new essence. And working in a garden, digging, turning dirt? It's the best. It's the connection with the simple, the uncarved, the honest days labor in return for the immediate gratification of a job well done (hopefully). One of the most satisfying jobs I ever had, from this point of view, was for a short time as an insurance adjuster many years ago. There would be a huge stack of files in my inbox in the morning, and they would be in my outbox at the end of the day. The gratification was there because I could physically see my empty tray, dust it off, then go out for a drink with my girlfriends. No problems, no carryover. Nothing to worry about. Maybe this small component, this daily feeling of self-satisfaction (having nothing to do with a paycheck or bonus) is something tangible that a manager could seriously think about, even in the most abstract of circumstances. Team goals always seemed a bit manipulative to me as an employee; but some sort of personal affirmation, albeit a shiny empty box, goes a long way toward balance in the work place. How to translate it onto a mass level would be an interesting challenge, how to give a salesman or a scientist or a teacher or anyone professional the opportunity for a sense of completion, when in fact their job is relentlessly ongoing - I haven't a clue. But I do think people need it...just a little personal attaboy.

Really nicely said. Sometimes, when I'm on top of my game, I will mentally lower the invisible shield around me when in someone else's company, just so my essence can mingle with theirs. It's a wonderful feeling of connectiveness, even if it's the person you're standing behind in line at the supermarket.

I would think a Taoist take on the corporate world might be a lot of fun to hear about. I'd like to give you the Taoist take on police work too, but it's too oxymoronic and they won't let you use the word 'police' and 'tao' in the same sentence.

Everything, it sounds like you're saying youth is wasted on the young, there at the end. Unfortunately this is where experience comes in. It seems like true purpose if most often found after elimination of all others is done. That was a fabulously creative vid. Was that you, Songs? I can't add anything to the conversation regarding how this relates to business and motivation of employees; but I do know one thing. I am an artist and I no longer sell paintings. I stopped selling them because to sell them is to rip the blood right out of them. To give them to someone is to remember it with love always.

Interesting statement, bringing humility into the equation; eliminating our need to be special. And yet there is a yin and yang to that as well. The Sage takes his provision cart with him at all times, and therefore is 'in the center of the universe' at all times. There are no distinctions; all time and space are his. But this goes to your humility - in order to get to that point where you actually feel like the center of the universe (more accurately, you are totally aware of your part in it, as you said), this must be done without ego. It has to be tamed and sidestepped to achieve this awareness.

This post is a bit out there. More and more, I'm coming to the conclusion that upon our death, we will transport to wherever we believe we are going; at least for a while, and then maybe everything enters the collective. Who knows? But I think a Christian will probably have a moment with Jesus at death, perhaps a Buddhist would have a moment with Buddha, etc. As a shamanic type with Taoist tendencies, or vice versa, I'm never sure which - I have a type of afterlife template which involves a green pasture and my horse that I had to put down. All my deceased animals and people I've loved are there. I hope to land there, at least for a while, perhaps a lucid dream in my journey. Okay, I thought....so how does this work for one who believes in a Christian rapture of sorts, where they're physically elevated to a higher level while the rest of us remain behind writhing and gnashing our teeth? Can anybody say UFO?

Hi Straw Dog! Haven't heard from you in a little while. Have you been taking a mental vacation? I too like the holographic idea, I know that fits in somehow too. It particularly seems to reconcile the quantum physics 'particle and wave' phenomena; as a holograph of its own nature seems to be a bit of a junction between time and space. I often think of the analogy of the waves in the ocean; the water particles themselves aren't the things that move much; it's the energy of the current disturbing the particles momentarily then going on its merry way.

I fully agree that there is a place where karma does not exist. It is in the wu-wei mindset as well. CowTao, I'm getting a little up there in years and I can't mentally keep up with your thoughts. It stretches my brain a bit far. Your one comment: Its quite correct, in my view, that thoughts manifest from a common ground, but not too sure if its accurate enough to say that such are manifested from the inside to the outside. Where is this inside? Where is outside? Are these two 'sides' not linked in a seamless, eternal continuation? Any one aspect cannot arise, imo, without causing, affecting and effecting the other aspect to start vibrating as well. The only thing I know is that I "see" it in some dimension in my head, and I just can't put it into words. I see it as the rays of the sun are to the sun, is what we are to Source. This place is seeing seems like it's behind me and a bit over my right shoulder; and there are a bunch of triangulations to situations. This is merely my own experience and I wouldn't expect anyone to take anything I "saw" here with anything more than a grain of salt. I also know that there's a beautiful golden brilliant place, so brilliant that it's beyond description. It somehow is the core; it hums so loudly that it's unbearable and pleasant at the same time. It's a weightless place, this place that feels like Source and Awareness and Convergence of Souls....the only time I've been there was during an incredible accidental tantric sex experience, but the feeling of a Presence is imprinted on my soul, for lack of a better word. WTM: Thanks for the pointers on the Seth books. Maybe I'll check into them -

I've got a theory on all this, that Something happened when man gained the ability to harness fire. Fire to me seems to be the perfect analogy for the spirit (or self awareness) to be added to the hominids. Fire seems to be half physical, half non physical. I know this probably goes over the edge but it's just a hunch. After all, we all stem from the sun, maybe all the suns out there are points of awareness and when the conditions become ripe on a particular planet, the manifestations begin from the molten mass inside the planet to the outside, including the resultant life. This would package up both evolution and 'divine' intervention. Or not.

It's my understanding that our modern brains and the brains of the indigenous were pretty much one and the same. I think it's easy for modern man to get into an arrogance about how advanced we are (thereby inferring that the indigenous man must have been a dolt), but from what I've read, we would've acted exactly the same way with our current brain being what it is. They had the same degree of intelligence that we do today, just without the communal knowledge of accumulated time. We, however, have lost the type of intelligence that they required for survival against the elements at the basest levels, to say nothing of food capture.

I really don't know much about any of this, but I did follow one of the above links on Wikipedia and it talks about fire being the Quintessence. There's something quite strange about fire. It seems to be the midpoint between matter and non-matter. I've come to think that fire and 'the fire within our chest' are one and the same, and that we all spring from fire anyway - perhaps all the suns are points of awareness, the planets are offshoots with their molten middles, we are offshoots of the planet and the fire within.

Good point, to look at karma as 'wanting something'. We can do whatever we like as long as we're willing to pay the price tag. Looking at time as a measure of change is perfect. I've known people who rigidly adhere to the karma being punishment thing - I think it goes more to what you've said - wanting something. And I do think karma can be undone somewhat by new understanding and good intent of heart.

I tend to agree with you about the developed habits and traits. My only problem with the word karma is that it connotates time in the equation and as such is rigid, a cause and effect. That's a linear way of looking at it. But maybe a more Daoist way of seeing it is to see it as more fluid, more Now. Perhaps the fact that we do study and we do have a passion for the fire within helps to exponentially remove some of the karmas and maybe it isn't a hard and fast rule that we must reap what we sow in a mathematical way. On the other hand, I know that every action has an equal and opposing reaction, so I could just as easily be blowing smoke. But I do believe that intent to cultivate our inner channels to express that which expresses clearest the intent of the Tao does certainly count for something. Sincerity is everything. Heart is everything. Love for our brother and all life forms is everything.

Yes - I agree, this thread is definitely heading to the Diving Power thread. I haven't seen any disagreement between our POV's at all. What you call 'false' realities, I would call separate realities. We all have a mutual agreement, somewhat, as to what reality is, so that we can communicate. But if you and I are standing next to each other looking at a mountain, the mountain will be slightly different looking from where you and I both are, despite how close we try to stand. I really think we're kind of talking about the same thing; I guess I'm just coming more from a Castaneda perspective on this particular point, cuz that's been my path. But I surely love the fact that we all meet here, and I always find your responses very deep and thought provoking. I sense that you are a very gentle and wise soul. Our souls are very close.

This is a rather exquisite thread.

Amen, brother

Thanks for that, Zero - I read the article and I agreed with absolutely everything, down to the bone....until they got to the last paragraph about immortality and longevity. I've never quite understood the emphasis on that. But that could be the shamanic component of my inner practice speaking. Death, as you well know, is an advisor to the shaman and the shaman is in intimate terms with death. Interesting that the focus changes slightly in both traditions, daoist and shamanic. The shaman is close to death, the Quanzhen apparently wants to stay as far away from it as possible.

Could you explain in your own words what complete reality Taoism is? How does it differ from incomplete reality Taoism? I'm not saying this sarcastically - I'd really like to know.

Wonderful, Pie Guy. That's sort of how we catch our food here in Appalachia.

Had second thoughts about the thread. Sorry for the inconvenience

That is one talented musician, regardless of what he's wearing and how many times he shoots it.

Dawei - good point. But the material mind may be the very thing that is causing all this. If we are all One, then we must manifest thought from a common juncture, because we are manifesting from the inside to the outside. Unless one wants to look at the Tao as the void somehow being outside of ourselves. I think the earth manifested from the inside out, over time. One layer and one event over the other. My guess is that the 'I' inside you is the very same 'I' that's inside me; the only difference is our conditioning. I'm also wondering if each and every one of us don't share the very same subconscious brain, and the subconscious brain is continuing to 'create' all that we see. It would be the conscious part of the brain that gives us the illusion that we are separate people. I sometimes think about those huge mushroom masses that extend for miles upon miles under the earth in various areas - have you read about those? I wonder if the brain analogy can be extended to include the mushroom masses as being part of the earth's brain. After all, from mushrooms extend all sorts of separate realities, if you ingest them. My guess is that the indigenous would consume these plants (the ones that grew above) and have a group hallucination that would function as their thought-bubble, their template for future living in some cases. Perhaps our worldly affairs thought bubbles were all kicked off by the hallucinogenic plants. If you read Revelations, it sure reads like one who has been given visions during a hallucinogenic experience. I don't mean to detract from the visions....if they were given by the plants, then they're there for a reason. Perhaps fire is the originator of life. Perhaps all the suns are actually huge balls of awareness, chunks of which break off and become planets. The awareness stays within the planet by means of the molten fire at the center of the earth. when the time is right and conditions have ripened, the fire inside continues manifesting; earth, weather, grass, animals, humans, and beyond. The humans are the ones who have manifested with the ability to think outside of themselves. Perhaps It wants to manifest the finest humans with all their senses, so that It can Experience all that it thinks of. This certainly wouldn't explain the Why (other than just plain experience), but maybe there's something to it as to the How.