manitou

Very interesting - thanks, Center. Maybe Netflix?

You cantankerous old fart, you.

TWIV - you seem to have this work internalized. If you come across any other translation that would clarify a particular point, please post it! I'm just working off a run off copy I got from stillness.com and I like to triangulate different great minds as well - seems like the essence I get out of it always lies someplace between what everyone else says - I guess that's how it works, huh?

I know what you mean about the meetings, after a while. It seems like people who have long term sobriety go to meetings not because they get anything anymore - it's like they're giving back to the ones who haven't gotten it yet. The 12 steps are magic, as far as I'm concerned. I think that people who go into their own character as per the 12 steps have gone a long way to getting to the inner essence of the Tao (or more specifically, the wu-wei aspect of the Tao, which is where we cause action by inaction). It is a very delicate balancing act, and folks who still have a lot of dross inside can't seem to get down to the inaction. There is a certain inner vision that goes along with this as well - some of us are capable of Seeing, but on a different playing field, almost like a separate reality. I sense that your depth is way down there, and I'll bet you're a bit of a Seer? Somehow I hear it between your words. So - if you want to learn the Taoist 'vocabulary' (which is no doubt stuff that your soul already knows but it just needs to learn the arrangement of ideas) I'd recommend going onto the Tao Te Ching thread and start with the discussions back at Chapter One - it wouldn't take you very long and you'll 'get it' right away. As to the inner work, you've already done it, friend. Now we're just doing step 11 daily, and you already know how to do the maintenance. We just keep doing the self examination and making amends when they come up - and this is essential for the sorcery part of the Tao, which is wu-wei. I'm so glad you're here!

I'm going to make a sweeping generalization that will give folks something to jump on. I've read a lot of Confucius (Lin Yutang includes much of Confucius in his book "The Wisdom of China and India" (published 1942). It appears to me that Confucius is very good for the common man, the man who isn't seriously pursuing inner understanding or understanding of the Tao. Confucius' utterances are very adaptable to everyday living. The Taoist way of life is much more concerned with the inner dynamic to get to the point of understanding wu-wei. It necessarily involves getting to know yourself very well - I don't think Confucius places as much emphasis on that. I could be way off the charts here - it's been a while since I read a lot of Confucius. But that was my general impression. I think that Confucius and the TTC or Laotse will agree on about 90% of the philosophy. where it separates is where it gets down to the sorcery of wu-wei.

Mirrors would be good, but magnifying glass is really intense. We used to set ants on fire in the front yard - hopefully I've already lived through that karma, lol.

It's possible, but that fuzzy white orb behind the leaf looks more like a reflection to me - you can see a little bit of water wave, I think. If that's the case, how very perfect..... On second thought, is it possible that the white orb is the reflection of the moon, and the shadows on the leaf are twigs in the moonlight? That being the case, you're drifting down the river of the Tao; what comes to mind is the vision of the master pointing at the moon when there is nothing left to say in verbal teachings, and nature then becomes the teacher. Your inner self may have selected this avatar unbeknownst to your outer self.....

I didn't see the first one. What's the theme of the movie?

I have a question that I've always wondered about. When I was a kid we used to take a magnifying glass and burn stuff up from magnified sunlight. Is there no way to harnass this type of energy? Or is it harnassed and I'm just unaware of it? Maybe that's a component of current solar energy?

Center, I just noticed that the leaf on your avatar is floating in the water. How wonderful, and how very Tao.

TWIV - that makes perfect sense. Looking at it with eyes toward meditation makes it all fall into place a lot better.

Windblown - What a wonderful voice you have added to this forum. It's obvious you're a real live wire. I noticed in another thread that you're no longer going to AA meetings - I too am a recovering alkie (30 years in December) but I no longer go to meetings either. There just aren't any decent ones around where I live; even if there were, I still wouldn't go very often. I just wanted to mention that we're doing Tao Te Ching studies on this particular thread. We're trying to extrapolate all the essence out of the chapters and in doing so I think we all increase our understanding. Please join us! Also, we're doing a study on the Nei-yeh (which I had never heard of until last week) and it's very similar in character to the Tao te Ching, but has a different essence. If you're interested in learning more about the Tao, this would be the place....

I think Virtue has to do with Intent, as well. It's just intending to live within the understanding of the logos, the Nature of What Is. There's no need to put a good or bad label on it, it's not pertinent.

Back atcha', darling.

+ 100 on this statement.

My guess is that with just about everybody, even the masters, sooner or later we run into ego, either ours or theirs. We are, after all, human beings; and this seems to be hardwired into our structure. I really like the method of triangulation, where you consciously compare the wisdom of several simultaneously and come to your own conclusions. That's the only thing I've ever done, and it seems to work pretty well. Comparing two or three different translations of the TTC results in a more thorough understanding than reading just one. Could not the same be done with teachers, at some point in time? Yes, it may be necessary to totally immerse ones self in another's point of view for a period of time, but when we've backed off from the master or teacher to see the essence of what he taught us, this essence can be viewed alongside other essences and your own understanding will develop.

Thanks Aaron - not a lot of response yet.

Really! I haven't seen one less-than-bright person on this forum! Seemingly dumb remarks from all directions are what makes this thing spin....

Well, let's give it a try. Story 1 in This Human World: Yen Huei is leaving Confucius, tells Confucius he's headed to the State of Wei. He tells Confucius that he hears that the prince of Wei has an unmanageable disposition, behaving as if the people were of no account, won't see his own faults. Sounds like Gadhafi. The people don't know where to turn to help. Apparently this fellow feels that he can do some good. Confucius says Alas, you'll only be going to your doom, you donkey. The Tao doesn't 'bustle about'. Confucius tells him to first strengthen his own character before he tries to strengthen others. Apparently this fellow needed a little work. He says a most important sentence to him here: Virtue evaporates by motion into desire for fame, and knowledge ends in contentions. (How very true! How often do we see contention on this forum due to knowledge?) He goes so far as to say that both (assumedly both fame and knowledge) are instruments of evil, and are not proper principles of living. I had to read this next paragraph in the first story a couple times, but I think it's saying that if we try to shove our preachings on wicked men, we will be hated for our goodness; in that sense, he calls the prosthylitizer a "messenger of evil", and you will in turn be the victim of evil from others. The 'On the other hand' paragraph (if the Prince loves the good and hates evil, what object will you have in inviting him to change his ways?), it seems that Confucius is telling him not to make that judgment from a distance. How do we really know the Prince's heart isn't in the right place? Maybe it is, and the circumstances make it seem that it isn't. It is apparent that Confucius is able to see that his friend is thinking in terms of 'victory and loss' when it comes to changing the Prince and his kingdom. He seems to throw the onus right back on his friend, to have him see how much of what he wants to do is caused by his own ego. What is it that you see in this first story, Kevin? Can you expand or disagree in some way? I'd love to hear your thoughts.

I'll take a stab at it. I'm not sure what he's talking about when he says 'all the forms of the mind', but the Tao infuses the mind with its essence in its natural state, according to this. The things that disrupt this natural state are the emotions listed. It's easy to see why some of the activities of man would disrupt the essence of the Tao spirit in the mind. Profit-seeking is a no-brainer. But he also included the positive emotions...joy and happiness. This seems to say that the state of bliss we love to experience is also a way of disrupting the Tao within. My take on this is that to perfectly express the Tao in all of its forms, there must be no emotion inside to distract. I equate it with the phenomena of losing our bodies in meditation. If we can walk around with this mindset - no thoughts at all! - then perhaps we'll be capable of expressing the Tao perfectly out there in the streets. Pretty radical, but I think I see what he's getting at....

Immortal - your idea about making a thread about the mind and its abilities would be stupendous. Please do it?? I think the only problem with this thread is the amount of research required to understand the point you're making. It's just too much stuff to look at - I clicked on the first link and I could see that it was going to be an awfully long video. I think that for someone to truly see what you're getting at, they'd have to be willing to sit at their computer for an hour or so and click on all the links. Is there any way you could paraphrase what you're getting at here? Put it in your own words, rather than making us do all the research.... I would love to participate in a thread such as that -

I went to China with a group of photographers about ten years ago. I was in a small town along the Li River (omigod, that's gorgeous!) and I ran into a young girl, maybe 19 or 20 years old. She was from America - she was adorable, short curly blonde hair, and a backpack. She had been in China for 3 months already, by herself. She didn't know the language when she arrived, she just picked stuff up. She was having an absolute ball, you could see it on her face. She was very excited to hook up with us for a day. But even if you don't find someone to join you, perhaps the very best trip would be the one you took by yourself. You'll definitely learn what you're made of. I had nothing but admiration for this kid. What a champion.

What a noble pursuit, Gerard. The fact that you post the incredible words you do on this site goes a lot further than you think. I see your words as being the small ripple of a pebble being thrown into the lake, the ripple ultimately extending all the way out to the lake's shore. I feel that I have dedicated my life to this also, although I never thought of it in those terms before. It seems like every conversation I have with anyone, I see it through more awakened eyes than I ever have before. I see people in their upward struggle, even if they don't know they're doing it. All souls want to merge upward, I think - but sometimes the dross inside the person is so thick and heavy that the light can't get through at all. If you just Be, it will come to you. Spirit, Tao, the Intelligence...whatever; it knows what it's doing, and it will cause each and every event in your life. Your intent is perfect, and that is what will cause the unfolding of events and personalities around you for a particular purpose. It's a dynamic that happens only by not pushing it.

thank you, Aaron - this is very balanced.