manitou

You're going to deny this group a foray into argumentation? If you continually run up against arguments and people telling you you're not asking the right questions -- are you hoping to find a forum that will be in total agreement all of the time? I don't think it exists. Are you afraid that because we don't all have diplomas from a university, that we don't know what we're talking about? If this is what you're thinking, you are limiting yourself. What you'll find on this site is wisdom - not credentials - and there is a huge difference. Anybody can lift facts from a Wikipedia and get to know 'about' anything they want. But to speak with those who have been practitioners for years, who have undergone the painful internal process of being totally honest with themselves and with others - this forum will rate up there pretty high. A path is just a path. It doesn't get you 'there'. You have to do that all on your own. If you want to learn How, and are willing to listen to some folks with different points of view - then you're in the right place. If the knowledge in your head isn't pliable, it won't work here either.

Could you give a for-instance on a question that created this type of argument?

This is exactly why you meet so many recovering people on the quest. In order to stay sober, they had to work the 12 steps and pull the density and obstruction out of themselves, so they can stay comfortable enough to stay sober. It's like that's done first, before the path to enlightenment even emerges within. Just like turning lemons into lemonaid.

I don't remember the thread, but I am very sorry to have left you with that memory. If my thoughts do not resonate, please let them just float by...

At the center of everything is the I Am consciousness. It is a consciousness that is the result of a final realization that you, yourself must make. It is the same realization that is the 33rd step of Scottish Rites freemasonry. The same realization that is the Christ consciousness, the Buddha mind - it's all the I Am consciousness, which involves no path at all once realized. It's not attained, it's realized. Within. This is the Dao, the mind of absolute potential and creativity. It is creation. It uses wei wu wei as one of its tools.

Try subtraction instead.

Said otherwise: All time and space are yours.

The concept of inner or higher self sounds pretty dual, still. There is a final realization that will remove all of that.

I think the desireless aspect also pertains to not being opinionated. The desirelessness is a result of realizing, from the inside, who you really are. Once that is realized, nothing is missing. Nothing to desire. This would involve stepping out of dogma of any sort, accompanied by an internal inspection and modification for character traits that no longer serve you.

What incredible synchronicity. I just signed on to write down, somewhere, a thought that I thought was really important for our forum. This I just realized from an inner perspective, not any outer source. The same thing as the cartoon, but up just a little closer: We become it.

I think it's saying 'If you can think it or say it, that ain't it'.

Was the cat supposed to do something?

Thanks, I guess. I hope you don't mind that I just barely skimmed through it -

Hatha Yoga becomes quite involved with different breathing exercises

I don't think he would have done a true meditation, where he sits with still mind. I think his mind was very active. I think he was going into himself with the question 'Who am I?' The realization of who he was is the moment of enlightenment.

Manacle

Been there done that, Nungers. It's kind of a black widow thing

As far as I'm concerned, I don't care what I have to go through for chocolate. But yes...that was my very own imprint. You got a problem with that? I don't think it has to be underground.

I sure hope those Christians aren't right. If there's a hell, I think you may be hell-bent...

It took me a minute. That's great, Steve.

Who is We? There is one perspective that you aren't thinking of. Those of us who have had to overcome addiction, and through inner work (12 steps, for example) we have been able to do so. I now have a productive life. I didn't before. Recovery from alcoholism (drug addiction, etc) involves overcoming desires. We drank because our thinking was wrong, our imprints and conditionings led us down that path. It is through the removal of imprints and conditionings that we recover. We replace the need to drink with service to others. We are able to truly give service to others (helping them through the steps, anything at all that comes up during the day with neighbors). Helping a friend get a place to live. We turn into totally different creatures than we were before. You are obviously well instructed in this field. But it does read more educational than experiential. Do keep an open mind?

Not sure about this. Once impediments have been removed, there is a recognition that I am You. When we realize that we are 'the other', then Oneness and selflessness becomes natural. It is service to the other that makes us glow. Truly, it can be done. I just bought a house for a lady yesterday. But why not? She is Me.

Dwai, this is the most beautiful effing thing I've ever seen on this forum.

That's a wonderful way to be. There may come a day when you want to go a little further. Along the path, at some point, there ceases to be judgment of good or bad, positive or negative. Yes, Be Here Now is truly a classic, but the strange thing is that, as simple as that is, that's all it really amounts to. It's just that the Be Here Now must be accompanied by a self realization of your true self in order to be effective. When that is accomplished, all time and space are yours. You will no longer have any impediments that manifest outward as a negative situation. We do manifest from the inside to the outside - we project what we are. Removal of our conditioning by going into self and becoming aware of the tendencies that we have, the situations we attract - these situations are all clues as to what's really going on inside us. Once removal of the egoic self is achieved, then the world of wei wu wei will open. It's a firm knowledge (gnowledge, actually) that the universe is a friendly place if we get ourselves out of the way. We learn to trust that there are laws in place that will always be the rule. We learn to trust the Is-ness of the way it is - even world conditions, as ugly as they appear sometimes - there is a time and purpose to all of it. That is because linear time is a bit of an illusion; it's all actually happening Now, but it's been framed for our purposes in day by day compartments, in accordance with our particular brain configuration. Strange knowledge will become available to you. And it's the type of knowledge that is not retained in your brain. Not head knowledge learned from a book. It's a wisdom and a vision that isn't describible in words, yet all it takes to accessing it is to clear your mind of all thoughts, and it will descend on you - somehow pulling the information out that you had no idea you had inside you.

This is odd. As I age, my focus and ability to remember anything are shot; but the ability to triangulate metaphysically has really kicked up. It almost seems like I had to give up one for the other. I'm sure that's not really true, but it sure seems that way. Actually, I think that focusing on 'Be Here Now' and try to stay there, is good training for the mind.