manitou

Mettafizzical 'R Us. I get that. What I have a little trouble understanding with deities, is that it seems like such a dual concept. That there is something 'other' to be emanated or worshipped. The archetype certainly explains the concept . But I note you highlighted IN FORM OF in your post. Do you think there is actual form (albeit on a different dimension or density) that somehow bridges the gap between the physical and the metaphysical?

What a gift this is. To have grown into our truer self and leaving conditioning behind. A lifetime's journey, if you ask me.

I love that translation, Sketch. Each one of those phrases is a meditation in itself. My personal fave? 'The person who exists is not obvious'.

This seems to be the practice for me. I was brought up not to enjoy. There was a midwest puritan undercurrent that kept me stifled (until I later rebelled), and almost feeling guilt if I felt too good. But today, this is my very quest. To enjoy every moment, regardless of whether the moment appears to be a good one or a bad one. Because in essence, the I Am is the I Am for all of us. And the I Am is always "great". No harm can come to it. The mindset involved is one where we are in consciousness of our true identity - that consciousness we all share - and, like the sage, no harm will come if in consciousness. VERSION 2: Or...if something seemingly horrible happens to you, and someone comes up to you and says, 'Oh! That's horrible!", you can merely answer "Maybe".

Protagoras in Plato In the dialogue of the Theatetus, Plato argues against Protagoras' view thusly, "If what each man believes to be true through sensation is true for him - and no man can judge of another's experience better than the man himself, and no man is in a better position to consider whether another's opinion is true or false than the man himself, but...each man is to have his own opinions for himself alone, and all of them are to be right and true - then how, my friend, was Protagoras so wise that he should consider himself worthy to teach others and for huge fees? And how are we so ignorant that we should go to school to him, if each of us is the measure of his own wisdom?" (161B). Plato argues, here and in the dialogue Protagoras, that it is impossible for everyone to know the Truth of a matter if everyone's opinions of that Truth differ, often dramatically. What Protagoras seems to be saying, however, is that the apprehension of Truth is relative to the individual perception and what one recognizes as 'true' will be True to that individual despite any evidence to the contrary. LOL. What excellent commentary. The relativity of what's true and what's not. I think that a reason that it's not feasible for one to walk their own path exclusively from the beginning is that most folks don't care about a path at all until they do. But how very lucky those are who have the clarity to align one's self with the Void. From that initial point of alignment and staying true to that point, once found within ourselves, we're on our way. All situations can be viewed from that point of reference, and regardless of one's conditioning, that clarity is finally able to transcend the egoic body and see without distortion. This is what seers are capable of doing; merely transcending the egoic self for as long as that consciousness is maintained.

Meaning that the template for man's body is the primary template for the universe?

Nah. Opted for the hand instead.

Wouldn't everything you mentioned in the complex (emotions, memories, etc) also be a part of egoic identity?

I could google it, but I'd rather hear your answer. Is 'loa' ego?

So there's this wizened old guy who always walks past my house in the mornings. He always stops to talk when he sees me. He loves to go to movies, as I do. So I called him just now to see if he wanted to go see Russell Crowe's new flick tomorrow. Keep in mind he's in his 80's. This was the conversation: Me: Vern, do you want to go to a movie tomorrow? Him: What shoes will you be wearing? Me: What? Him: What shoes will you be wearing? The moccasins or the sandals? Me: Which ones should I wear? Him: The sandals, where your little pink toes stick out. Me, laughing: You know, I actually knew a toe sucker once. Him: Umm, maybe twice.

Michael, both you and @Taomeow have tied something together for me that has been a puzzlement (couldn't find her original quote to insert here). Not having come up an Eastern path, it seemed curious that the metaphysical dynamics of the Buddhist, Daoist, or Hindi religions also contained an aspect of all these deities. I sort of assumed that maybe these deities came into existence as a sort of folklore aspect of the religion, making them seem sort of pointless at this point in history. But from what you two are saying, it's more that these deities are templates or archetypes that are manifested in representation of a mindset, or a particular quality?

Top o' the mornin'

The same matter, different form.

circumspection

Thanks for the little porker. No, I was referring of the ability of the finned ones to triangulate their position. I was originally going to write little forker but I didn't want to offend you.

Really, I see love as a mindset. To always at least try to do the most 'loving' thing in any circumstance. And while in that mindset, while maintained, is an enlightened state of mind, because you know at that moment that you are aligned with the highest ideals, from the inside to the outside.. I do see it as a choice, but a daily choice that must be renewed as the day wears on. The feeling of love is another thing altogether, IMO. That is certainly icing on the cake - but I know from my many years of doing the two-step with others, that the squishy love feeling comes and goes, and cannot be relied upon. The kind of love I ultimately experienced with my husband started out as a squishy thing alternating as a drunken thing - but after adjusting to each other over a 35 year period, the most golden, quiet love evolved. And we did make each other better people.

Love is also a decision. To wear love as a daily garment is a challenge, but well worth the effort. It's difficult sometimes to see how to react in a loving fashion (without being an enabler, etc) and is sometimes demonstrated in the midst of chaos. It's like all the papers and objects are swirling around you, but you are the steady rock that things will settle into. So often the immediate answer is 'do nothing', the action we can take to stop the dynamic in its tracks. Any further response will involve an action. It must be a loving one, whatever 'love' looks like in any situation. Love might be telling someone something they need to hear, and no one else has the guts to say it. But we say it kindly and with compassion, regardless of what it is. Love is always truthful and does not cut corners. It truly takes a certain type of daily courage to live honestly and without guile. I took the Castaneda path, originally. He speaks much of impeccability of character - the sort of impeccability which observes itself all day. The kind of impeccability that will pick up someone else's kleenex in the street even if it's not yours. Or someone else's dog poop. These acts, although unobserved by others, are an excellent way to increase impeccability in the soul. It's also a bit humbling to do things like that (while in Ohio, I would pick up road kill and place it off to the side of the road). You know that the folks in the stopped cars are probably experiencing a gag reflex - but there is also benefit to doing things like that, knowing that others think you very strange. Humbling is a good thing and diminishes ego. But that too is love. To recognize life as One, even if we're talking about a dead skunk on the road. Castaneda's nagual promoted 'stalking yourself', the ability to see yourself from outside yourself...to see yourself as you actually are, not the fiction in your head. To question your own motives. Transcending ego, essentially. Ultimately.

Situation mitigated: he bought Beano today after a particularly embarrassing moment at Costco.

I wonder why it is that mosquitos seem to prefer some than others. My roommate is a mosquito magnet. Me, not so much. I wonder if they have a preference for blood types.

Nice find, Dwai. Such a good topic, sitting with feelings. He's got a good point about resistance being futile and making things worse. Actually, nothing feels better than a good cry -- full stop, full monty - Cry. To cry so hard that no sound even comes out of your mouth. Like you are in the complete grips of acceptance of something that is utterly unacceptable.

The SOB being the dog?

Back about 40 years ago, I was driving a police car on the Hollywood freeway. In the fast lane, somebody had hit a dog. The dog had his hind legs crushed, but the front part of him was still sitting up, howling. I so wish I had had the reflexes to finish that little fellow off, but I didn't. I drove by him. I remember thinking I should get off at the next offramp and circle back, but I was in a hurry to get to downtown L.A. It haunts me still.

Experiencing hate or any negative emotion is a perfect way to work on self. One determines what it really is that's bothering you - and why you rubbed up against that person. Once the memory or tendency is found, it can be easily reversed. Awareness of what lurks within our conditioning starts the process - the tendency will see itself each time it rises and ultimately the body makes the decision that it's not productive to be unbending. The enlightened mind accepts life as it is - this is possible after the ego is diminished. Which happens after we've diminished our tendencies to protect our ego. And I agree fully with Michael - love is always trying to break through - the tendency coils higher and higher, despite the minefields.

Beliefs and realizations are two entirely different animals. One is gained externally, the other internally. The result we seek finally occurs with a realization.

You have a wonderful way of communicating, EmeraldHead. That was beautiful. I think at the point of non-duality, there's no Should with anything anymore. It is a live ant. It is a dead ant. The ant is a straw dog, just like us.