manitou

Agreed. However, we do spend much time dancing around the unknowable mystery.

LOL. This cracks me up. We, in our constant stream of metaphysical discussion, have to be among the most cognitive on the planet. Shall we have a group purification of obscurative cognition?

I think this is truly enlightening. What it says to me is to find the real self underlying the egoic false self. The real self has no emotions, just dwells in a state of awareness or consciousness. The egoic false self is a result of all the conditioning we have undergone since birth, or as one wise one would say 'before our parents teach us our name'. Our human nature cannot escape a degree of emotion, as that is our condition. To awaken is to realize that's not our real self. It's not to walk around dead-brained, but to realize the reality underlying the emotions. Who and what we really are, not the separate egos as manifested through the lens of different experiences and conditionings.

When it comes to 'loving kindness' is, who really knows what's good for the next person anyway? What may seem like loving kindness may be a real example of enabling the other person to remain disabled in some way that they alone can fix. All is seemingly good or seemingly bad, if one chooses to look at it with dual eyes. As said above: 'Loving kindness is the automatic function of Awareness". Perfect.

I don't doubt that this is true. But the other side of the coin is that the person for whose welfare one is working for also abides with The Essence within, and is drawing to himself exactly what he needs at the moment. Going around and looking for good deeds to do seems like a bit of striving, to me, not a naturalness. I sincerely don't know. All I know is I do what's in front of me. If that means giving a $20 to a homeless man on the street, that's what I do. Personally, I think the heart has the answers when the situation arises. No doubt Buddha would be scolding me at this very moment.....

A very powerful statue of Dudjom Lingpa, and one can sense (and see) that many hands have touched it in reverence. Quoting from the article: In doing so, it reclaims a purity from which we have never strayed and uncovers our own primordial great perfection—a perfection that will, in T.S. Eliot’s words, “fructify in the lives of others.” 'Fructify in the lives of others" Could this be construed to mean not only as a pebble sending ripples out infinitely, and also elevating the consciousness of others in proximity? Seems like it could be either horizontal or vertical.

CT - In case nobody has done this before, I want to thank you for the time you take to find the beautiful gems of wisdom and post them here. Because of this longstanding endeavor, you are raising the collective consciousness of humanity. Thank you, my friend. Much of my piecemeal understanding has merged and gelled within this thread. Truths are self-evident to those who can feel the resonance within. Barbara

Excellent quote! I was practicing that very thing today standing in a long line at the market. Everything is a practice. I have been paying particular attention to the beauty of the Florida skies in the early morning and evening, and the trees with the Spanish moss. I am mindful that that very beauty and grace is the real Me. The real Us.

I would love to hear any discussion from those who have experienced the death of a spouse, a long-term relationship. I just lost Joe maybe 6 weeks ago to an ischemic stroke from a brain bleed between operations. I am devastated. I am wanting to know more about this grief process from those who have experienced it. The first couple weeks, I was numb. I saw the death from a cerebral perspective; a few tears, but nothing devastating. I think I was still operating on adrenaline from all the trips to the hospital, cremation arrangements, a final ceremony to help him cross over. It wasn't until about the third week that I became devastated, crying at the drop of a hat. Anything at all reminds me of him. I know that it is myself that I am crying for, the loss of half of me, half of me that had been filled by Joe for 35 years. I am still projecting Joe into inanimate things; I keep a teddy bear on his side of the bed, pretend that it is him, and talk to it. I hug it. I cry from the depths of my soul. I awaken with my eyes red and swollen. I am crying as I write this. still I can smell his smell, feel his silky skin, look into his kind eyes. I see his eyes in the teddy bear. What is helpful is to remove myself from myself, and speak to myself from the Observer perspective. I did this just this morning. Laying in bed sobbing, I said "She is crying". That seemed to help. I am capable of slipping in and out of myself from the Ego to the Observer, but remembering to do so when I am in this state is rare. If anybody cares to respond to this from their own experience (Rene, I can't thank you enough for sticking with me as much as you have; I hate to burden you further) I would greatly appreciate it. I seem to be going through a 'stage' of suicide ideation. This morning, before slipping into the Observer state and saying 'She is crying', I was thinking that it would be preferable to slit my wrists along the length of the arteries rather than across. Please, no platitudes. No pity, please. Just help me get through this and let me know what to expect.

That sure feels true.

After the four month mark and I get through most days without crying at all. There is still a constant 'ache' around the area of my heart that never leaves me. Just an awareness that something is missing. Did that silly animal see his shadow or not? Funny - it's like the movie Groundhog Day. It's like every day is just the same as the last.

Because I've never cried at this length and depth before, I never fully appreciated how incredibly healing it is. It's almost a bliss when the tension, both physical and emotional, has been released.

I see a parallel. The Dao that can be spoken of is not the true Dao.

Brilliant prose, if you ask me. That last paragraph. The choices seem to be either ending one's life or transcendence through understanding. That depth of grief is a huge nudge.

Thank you, CT. It's been a tough four months. the Grief thread was the best I could do, and it has helped immensely. I can see some light. Love you.

I think it's also a case of making no judgments, as there is no good or evil - there is just an is-ness about it. But I do think that until we reach the place of the masters, where we dwell in the Supreme Consciousness, we need to remove our defects in order to reach that type of clarity, and one of the ways of doing so would be either forgiveness of someone who has 'seemingly' harmed us (although in the Supreme Consciousness this doesn't apply) or alternatively make amends to those we have harmed. IMO, this is part of the journey to that Supreme Consciousness. P.S. Please forgive me for stupidly using the word 'dogmatic' when referring to Buddhism - I was thinking more of one of the several Traditions of Buddhism, and I just hastily wrote it wrong. Dogmatic doesn't apply at all when the journey is experiential. My bad. Also, I just finished studying the Siva Sutras, the Yoga of Supreme Identity - Wow! Hence my mention of Supreme Consciousness - which may not be a Buddhist term at all, but seems to fit right in to what is spoken of here and reaches the same destination. The Siva Sutras seem to be categorized as Kashmir Shaivism - but it sure sounds like Buddhist masters to me.

Does the idea that we are all the same essence, not different beings but the same essence in different skin-bags, explain BES's original question about self-forgiveness? If one retains a resentment toward another , we are hurting ourselves equally as much, as we are the same essence. Don't know if that fits into dogmatic Buddhist thought or not -

Hi LimA - It has been a calling for a long time - thanks for the suggestion. As a member of the alcohol recovery system for the past 36 years, helping the newcomer is Step 12 of the recovery, which continues throughout one's life. No shortage of folks there who need assistance, and since Joe's death I've really kicked up the participation - mainly to be around people, as I'm a loner - but to even share in a meeting, you never know if something you said hits a person struggling with their addiction in just the right way. Plenty of seeds planted there in meetings - plus the ability to sponsor other folks who are just trying to get sober/straight. Gendao - that is a wonderful and comprehensive graph. I suspect that the stages mentioned aren't always delineated in the very same order - but I do recognize each and every one of them - I'm sure that there is more to come later. Right now, I'm just enjoying the reprieve I'm getting from the crying and constant rumination and thinking of Joe; the feeling sorry for myself, the panic, the fear of the future.....I've just got a reprieve from it, that's all. It's been about 4 days now that I feel like a human being again. Maybe some of it will return, but that graph is helpful as to the nuances of the grief process, as it is so comprehensive. Thank you so much. For anyone who will be going through this process in the future; I think that the very deep crying is so healing - and it always feels so much better after the crying has stopped. I'd rather be crying my eyes out than have a day where I walk around with that huge, ugly, empty hole inside me. Those days are the worst, but sometimes a great cry will alleviate that too. The bereavement group affirms that others feel that same deep, ugly hole - and that we are not alone. Apparently misery loves company.

I've been listening to a lot of Tolle CD's. His constant talk of Presence is so very comforting. He speaks of going into Presence, (after being out of it and running with the mind) is like a baby slipping back into the warm arms of a loving mother. I am starting to see the truth in this, I am able to do it more and more. Last night I did some more little right brain drawings for folks in the bereavement group, and I couldn't believe how the hours slipped away, and I was nothing but Present, focusing on the art. I am learning tools, and the difference is very noticeable. Silent Thunder, you are one beautiful human being.

VERY nice composite, limA. The last one is so appropriate. Nobody ever tells you that emptiness weighs the most. Amen. I sometimes get relief in knowing that thousands, maybe millions, of people around the world are in exactly the same place as I am. Most of us get a turn at this. thanks again, every single insertion was right on target.

I'm at the 3 1/2 month time now, which some say is about the worst time of all. The denial has pretty much passed, the 'reality' (such as it is) has set in. I'd rather cry relentlessly rather than have that horrible, ugly emptiness inside me. That hole that defies description. Please feel free to say whatever you think will be helpful. Hopefully it won't be "just suck it up" as one person said to me. That was very hurtful. Today is actually pretty good day, and I'm going to do some art - some little colorful drawings which I give to people in the bereavement group. What a roller coaster ride this is.

Yes, I've had the first meeting. I took the initiative and got everyone's phone number (only 4 of us in the meeting), and I've been keeping in touch every other day. One man in particular was really crying hard during the first session. I called him yesterday and he cried on the phone, but when he hung up he was laughing about something we were talking about. It seems to help me the most to be of help to them. I think this will be a very worthwhile part of the recovery. Thanks, cold.

I really like the morning meditation, Lerner. The small choices are at the crux of everything, it seems. There are so many things I can do differently to start a new life for myself, and to this point the depression has kept me from doing them. Hearing her talk about that was a real good reminder for me; there are many small choices I can make which will cause me to isolate less.

I'm guessing even some form of so-called devil worship, if followed all the way, could lead to self-realization.

Sagebrush, if you made that comment about the psychological drama knowing that I just lost my husband of 35 years, you should be banned from the forum. If you made it because you are drunk or high, don't post unless you're sober.