Kasuku

Also there was a technique in the liping manual that he warns not to practice if you wanna have children!!

OH and lets say u work on emptiness for 100 days to get the shen light and send that to your dantian to get the spark... then you can go back to your old self cause uve already got the thing you need... haha I guess we should all go spend couple months in the mountain, then we'll be done with emptiness for the time being!

So are you saying all that big draw stuff that chia people do is useless, since the false fire cannot create chi energy? Why cant you purify this jing by condensing it into the bones and vibrating it, instead of the emptiness? So can we just leave the the jing thats circulating in the orbit in the heart area for longer to purify it or there must be emptiness to do it? Mopai guys don't seem to be big on emptiness and purifying generative force yet tehy still create the ball of YUAN CHI (TAIJI) at level 3 with purely energetic intentions. ITs seems tremendously difficult for people in this modern age (esp youths) to engage in the emptiness. Ive have the Wang Liping manual where the foundation includes sealing the leaks (physical an mental) like the tao yoga book, which include the realm of ambition. So how does a person with other passions and ambitions engage in purifying the generative force. There must be another way instead of emptiness.

from the TAO YOGA BOOK "...the proper method and inquire whether or not it consists of gathering outside air to turn it into the alchemical agent. If the teacher denies this and says that his method is to turn back the flow of generative force to fortify the body so that it will be restored to its original condition before puberty and cause the penis to cease standing during sleep and to retract, his is the authentic method. As to the alchemical agent, if the practiser is unmindful of it when gathering it, it is the prenatal microcosmic agent, but if he is mindful of it it will be an illusory agent which leads only to failure." "You should not only know when this agent is not being made but also distinguish its premature from i. production. For the mere gathering of deficient vitality leads to no result; you will not avoid death and your long efforts will be in vain. Therefore, it is most important to produce and sublimate the (microcosmic outer) alchemical agent. The immortal Ts'ao Huan Yang said: 'Even when you are busy relax a little to sublimate the outer agent in order to gather prenatal vitality from nothingness." "But never try to gather fresh air to make good the dissi­ pation of generative force and so restore vitality in the body, which is sheer nonsense." "Therefore, alchemy consists first in controlling the heart (the seat of fire) so that it cannot be stirred by the seven emotions (pleasure, anger, sorrow, joy, love, hate and desire) and upset by the five thieves; the six sense organs are immobilised and the generative force cannot be easily aroused. The five thieves are: the eye, ear, nose, tongue and body. When the eyes see a form the love of it steals the generative force; when the ears hear a sound the desire for it stirs the generative force; when the nose smells fragrance covetous­ ness of it dissipates the generative force; when the tongue tastes food fondness for it drains the generative force away; and when the body feels touch, stupidity arises to injure the generative force. If these five thieves are allowed to injure the body day and night, what will remain of the generative force? If it flows away spirit is bound to disperse and the body will perish. A practiser should regard his body as a country and the generative force as its population. Unstirred generative force ensures security for the population, and the fullness of spirit and (vital) breath increases the prosperity of the country. Likewise in his quest for immortality he should fight hard with the enemy to achieve prenatal vitality." According to this my generative force thats flowing around in me is definitely not pure LOL! The book also states the generative force is pure when there is no longer an erection (ie spontaneous erections at night!) so does this means, if someone follows the immortal path one cannot have a baby cause all his generative force has been sublimated!???

(Ur blog is very interesting!)

Well idk, i mean i don't train the horse stance at all, but if i go into one the chi condenses to the dantian and bones by itself.. But not as strong as condensing breathing of course, which i think is way better! Also i guess full lotus adds for more stability. But i agree with you that its pointless if you don't know what ur doing with your mind! HAHAHA... drew what do you say!!?? Now whats this flexing the pineal gland thing?

Well full lotus seems to efficiently pool the chi in the dantian kinda like the horse stance... I think chunyi lin says 1 hour of full lotus equals 4 hrs of other practices - Drew are you saying immortal emptiness is necessary for celestial immortality only?

that what was said about mo pai above is not necessarily true. We know that at level 30 one is truly immortal with the fetus having been born. That is traditional dao alchemy. According to Chang, Zhang Seng Feng who is an immortal made it up to level 72. If one is immortal at level 30 one can only imagine what happens at 72!

go see gary clyman.... he fix all ur problems!

well the story sounds convincing... from who did he learn this from, who was his master?

it says on the link that sifu john is a disciple of the Dr. Jerry Allan Johnson.. i looked on his website where he claims to have esoteric teachings on spells, incantations, and i quote "making the dead walk"

Is this johnson guy for real... anyone had any experience with him

thats great templetao!

and don't try and keep time... quality is better... if u can build ur energy in 1 minute of standing u dont need an hour of torture with no building

Yep, fix total concentration on the dantian, or emptiness. Ideally start with flowing and building ur energy through moving medition before consolidating it in zhan zhuang. How can ur generative force be generated in the beginning if ur concentrating on watching TV! LOL.Watching TV would prob cause chi to rise to the head anyway. which is not what you want!

Mo pai is not really closed to westerners... from my understanding only shifu 'Y' doesnt want to teach them. It is closed to certain westerners who have been banned (David verdesi) but other then that it is possible it seems to learn up to the 4th level (in other words Level 3)... and by that time, mo pai would prob be reopened

ahaha i give up... i cant understand anymore! All i know is that there is some liquidy chi flowing around that i can control, sometimes it gets hot, and sometimes it doesnt. This must be yang chi. I think true understanding of Yuan chi, this heaven essence will only come feeling it and experiencing it, which im sure youve done

uve probably read this passage from Eight nights with a taoist master: Laotzu smiled and gave a shallow nod. “From what the sage has taught, one must give up his ego, totally and completely, with no strings attached. One must let the mind rejoin with the body, and the body rejoin with the life energy – the Chi. Then one allows the Chi to go back to the state of Te, or that unit of the power of Tao within our body. Then one broadcasts out to match with the power of Tao, the ultimate force in the universe,” recited Chong Zen, with his finger wagging high in the air. Even with his arm raised, his long scholar’s sleeves still sleeves still dragged on the ground. . Liao, Waysun (2011-06-16). Nine Nights with the Taoist Master (Kindle Locations 1500-1504). Taichi Tao Productions. Kindle Edition.

OH okay, i thought you were saying this heaven energy was the one chi before yin and yang... ahh this makes alot more sense! yes i also feel the heat with yang chi

Very interesting. Im wondering what decides the "temperature" of chi. It seems that you can only broadcast your Te power with the One chi according to liao. Can u cultivate both the heaven and yang chi (and yin chi) at the same time.

Templetao thank you for laying it out very clearly for us all. Shifu lin in his book http://www.amazon.com/Tao-Jiao-Lei-Relationship-ebook/dp/B0097UKG9O/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1362867837&sr=8-3&keywords=shifu+lin has a similar proposition that internal alchemy is indeed thunder magic. "In the beginning, there was a time when human beings walked with more refinement and knowledge, because of the imparting of this knowledge. We know very little about this time, but we read from the Zhuangzi that it was a time far more ancient than his, when the True Human Beings, breathed through their feet, and could sit submerged under water in meditation. It was a time that even the ancients from our perspective were in awe of, as they looked back and tried to regrasp the Tao. In that time, Lei Fa and Nei Kung cultivation were one and the same, because cultivation was a process that – as we cannot conceive socially – was natural to the human condition. Today, in lineages of Lei Fa, whether the famous Mo Pai lineage, or any other – many years and decades must be spent in preparation for Lei Fa. One can selectively engage in Lei Fa practices for the writing of proper training. This is how lineages such as Mo Pai emerged, even if these lineages lost the knowledge of their origins amongst modern day practitioners." So i guess the gist of what your saying is there are two ways to access this heaven energy, original energy of One chi that came before yin and yang. One approach is to build up yin and yang energy reservoirs and fuse it to create the spark of the One chi. The other which you prefer is to just access this One chi from the start. I find it interesting that Liao in Tai chi classics book speaks little of One chi and instead urges students to cultivate they chi by breathing into the dantien which will increase its abundance and can then be condensed using the condensing breathing. (which according to your writings is the more mechanical method of breathing from your nose to dantien which cultivates the yang chi and not the heaven chi) So how does one charge up with heaven chi? I can 'open' by baihui somewhat and allow cosmic energy to flow like a shower down my body, but im not sure im doing it write since i may just be feeling my own yang chi that ive already built up. Im now also understanding the importance of flowing the energy and purifying it. Flowing i can do(either with some spontaneous movements, some 18 lohan patterns or just directing the energy to flow along small universe and other paths while in lotus to take a break from just sucking into the dantien with reverse breathing) But purifying it I have no idea! And Liao seems to have 100s of DVDs now!... i have no idea which one to get for aim of purifying and charging up with heaven chi. I think i was reading in some Wang liping blog that the main idea of its fundamental sitting practice is to cultivate the Yuan or one chi with its gazing back to infancy , which i noticed differentiated from cultivating the yang and yin chi in the mo pai practice.

Okay im resurrecting this thread just these posts seem really important and valuable... what about condensing breathing makes it a lower method? is this because one sucks in yang chi and not heaven chi? And in mopai it is at level 30 one conceives of the immortal fetus... from what what i know that involves awakening the shen light. So maybe they do actually use the dao's virtue after they fuse the yin and yang!

not fog around someone... i mean spread out chi in the dantien area, that hasn't been compressed/condensed

Dorian could you explain more about the chi being flowing inside your spine... if you condense the chi (or whatever is already flowing in the small universe around the spine), can you make this happen

Well jing also means essence, sexual energy (generative force) produced by the kidneys... one also sublimates this jing to transform it into chi (hence the 100 days) however jing (jin) is internal power