Spotless

I did not aspire to go long - I was driven in a sense. I would not say there were particular sign posts - but certain skills are acquired in that one sees and feels blocks and changes as they come and go. One learns the difference between being tired and the unconsciousness pressing on one as a block is hitting a breaking point. Many popping sounds happen in the back of the neck and head. Breathing tricks for making it past thick energies. Many energetic things for clearing energy - cleaning a meditation space - these become second nature. Massive kundalini happenings may take place - one may float out of ones body - Beings of great light may appear. I remember going to the bathroom once after a long sit (or during?) I had two clear long white lines down from my eyes - I had no idea what they were until I realized they were crystalized dried salt crystals from tears - they were thick enough to crack. It is a non-doing Being with Body. It may sound from the above that I was engaged in quite a bit of doing but this was not the case. Very little here and there. In my experience the posture becomes better and better - less and less loose and more and more naturally energized. At the end of a long long session I would be Very Very upright - If sitting in a chair I would be at the edge of it. Sometimes I would start in full lotus, move to half lotus and then sit in a chair - moves were infrequent but came as they came. 3-6 hours is a regular session. Often I would sit in full lotus or half lotus on a wide cushioned chair and then at some point extend my feet to the floor and then move to the edge of the seat. When the energy is moving the legs and everything get moving. In folded leg positions the aura tends to spin ever so slowly. In open leg positions the spinning does not take place. I prefer hands up and open rather than clasped or in a mudras At times mouth slightly opened - though rarely - but this has a considerable effect for certain things. The heel under and effecting the perineum is helpful at times - these things come and go and in the end cease to be of interest. In most cases practitioners do not breath enough or deeply enough. if breathing ceases it does so on its own and not as a practice. Left and right side nostril work is helpful at times - as is moving the head from one side to the other - or bending tightly down and coming up slowly - stretching the spine. these things help suble movements of energies within the nadis and gross physical, gross subtle and subtle bodies.

I did many years of long meditation - 1to18 hours straight in a sitting in Full Lotus. It is simply a myth that Full Lotus is incredibly better than half lotus or sitting in a chair or standing. It is utter nonsense - Particularly at the "highest" levels. As the gross subtle and subtle bodies grow in Awake embodiment - the leg channels will be required to open considerably - and this is with regard to inner work. Chair, Standing and moving forms are of the highest value in many cases. It IS the case that few high masters - of the very highest levels - reach very far into subtle body embodiment development. It is very easy to bypass this and yet be correctly understood to be "fully Enlightened" - many of the most highly regarded and highest sublime bright lights of the highest high have not abided and grown the subtle bodies to the extent that can be - it is common to pass on much of this. Rare not to pass on these - in part because of sitting practice habituations. Comfort and subtlety in ones form for meditation are easily of the highest value - in the folded leg positions the leg energies to not move well and many other channels do not move well as a result. At the highest levels of meditation - ones position is of little importance though in intense growth a straight upright torso is very advantageous - whether one is found walking, standing still, sitting in a chair or sitting on the ground. Feet flat on the floor or ground is also advantageous - though it is nice with the feet centers flowering upward as in the full lotus. The propagation of Full Lotus as some Super form that is far greater than any other form is fiction. It is more often the case that it is inferior to other forms if all things are taken into account. In any case - comfort and proper posture are of the greatest importance and our practice should not be the enemy of our bodies well being. Blue cold legs and blood clots are not helpful.

It appears you did not read what I wrote but responded with reaction and then near the end you speak of Oppressing as though to infer that something I wrote promoted oppressing something. My response was entirely to the nature of your original message - which conveyed Anger as a sort of useable tool of which we are generally in control. It is not a "useable tool" but rather what I described above - much more of a Happening. Specifically I mentioned that no judgment upon it or toward it was helpful - and Specifically that overall the idea of it as a Tool somewhat laughable. Anger is reactionary - a tool is something you choose to employ. If you "choose to employ Anger" it is called Acting - and yes you can cross the line from Acting to being lost in the acting and consumed by it. It is easy to be fooled by what we think we can pick and choose to "do" To be less IN Anger was never - nor will it ever be - effectively reduced by oppression of it (without at the very least considerable backlash in other areas within) - but practicing mindfulness and learning what catalyzes Anger within us can lead us to far more effectively Being.

4 hours nonstop full lotus every night to recharge the energy. Is this also part of what you were taught - that it is "to recharge the energy"? Specifically - is this what Chunyi Lin conveyed?

I used to go out with the daughter of a woman that handles Amma's trips to the USA. And I met Amma. She has a long and very clean record - with many seemingly endless hours of hugs. I do not profess to be a follower but I have not heard of anything like what was in the video - it could be true - but it could also be false - My meeting with Amma was a very considerable meeting - yet I knew nothing of her or her teaching - I simply went along to an event once and was introduced to some of the "back end support people" and then joined the big group and got a hug - it was an eventful hug. This was in the early 90"s I have seen people be "regressed" and come up with all sorts of absurd ideas as well as channeling that went sideways - and students that suddenly came up with stuff about a teacher that was crazy as well as incorrect and demented. That is not to say regression is bad or good or channeling either - simply that if you have a person over decades with a very clean record and then someone says something that seems "very off" - it may be that something is not right about the accusation.

"Chunyi Lin qigong master said 20 minutes of full lotus = 4 hours of any other type of meditation." Humorous

It is a mistake to look at "Anger" as a thing that we can disregard or avoid like gum on the sidewalk (or embrace) - it is not outside of our inner makeup. And our inner makeup - the Karma's we are IN - the grasping that we hold ourselves in - this is something we can view in our daily lives. We have in a sense two parts of our life - one that is comprised of thousands of lives all waiting to jump out of the bottle at any given moment - our Monkey Lives - the person that is comprised of all the "I's" we are know by - and the Self, the untarnished unborn and spotless Beingness that is Divine Essence - Light. In the seeing of the monkey - no judgement is cast - the Light simply alights on what the monkey's can and might hear - the "monkey's" being those "I"s in the bottle - and the bottle is who people identify as "Me". It comes to the comprised bottle of monkey's we call Me intuitively that "something is happening here" that it may wish to attend to. Some in the monkey mass may attend to it as a group of the diverse "I"s coalesce around it and begin to make an effort to fix or thwart or increase or decrease the "something [that] is happening here". This is the ongoing unfolding floating generally robotic burping we call Me - we are essentially group protests and "think" tanks mostly bounced around on an inner pin ball table of instinctive reactions and inclinations with added fluctuations in the regurgitations and digestion of various food and drink and with respect to the agitations of the planets and the time of the day and heat and humidity and sound touch smell ..... The extremes of our inner protests may lead to theocracies and perfect perfection pictures that tend to lead to suicides or murder. The extremes may also take the Apple Polisher approach in which "one" proceeds calmly and perfectly in trying to make no waves and following all properly posted carrots and using disinfectants regularly. The extremes of our inner protests can also lead to the general denial of intuition or a walling off of the composite bottle of "I"s to "whim" and in general inner or outer whisperings of the heart. These are example of somewhat consolidated approaches by a group of "I"s trying to organize the general mass of "I"s to slow down what is essentially the observation that huge amounts of energy are being dissipated by a vast number of discordant "I"s pacing about on their own time and at any moment speaking for the whole. In the general makeup of the vast mass of "I"s comprising what a human takes themselves to be - there are some established groups of Me-ness in that mass of "I"s that Speak Loudly. Some are connected directly to the nervous system and say or yell "ouch!!!!" when things hurt the body. Some groups make it very well know they are hungry or that it is too hot or too humid or some general grunt that they feel is of the utmost immediacy. And without pointing out all of the unionized groups and tangential groups we have the "I"s that get angry - and they have their reasons for getting angry - in some cases it is literally their birthright according to them and their lore. At some point some of the "I"s may group up and look at how to approach the "problem" of the discordant masses and the dissipation of resources. This group of "I"s is still the Monkey - they are swaying about on a life raft easily disbanded by a wave or a puncture. Some take to fishing, others believe it is all hopeless, some try and get everybody to pray or sing or play cards in order to get by and wait it out - others try to sew together sails and some start to look at others as food. Nothing is tidy about ones lives as a human - each time one is identified in a particular "I" one is in that life - in a day one can "lead" many lives - to clarify this: Remember a time when at night you set your alarm - the "I" setting it decided to set it at 5am because all things considered 5am was the best time to get up and start the day. The next morning the "I" that woke up to that alarm immediately pressed the snooze feature thinking that 10 minutes would be more appropriate. 10 minutes later another "I" decides that 7am would be better and resets the alarm and goes back to sleep. At 7am another group of "I"s wakes up an realizes that there is no time to waste but that is then interceded by another group of "I"s that decide it is already too late and being this late would create all sorts of explanations for being late so they conceive of a plan to call in sick and this then leads to another group of "I"s that are best at lying and acting and then the phone call or email is made and then general group decides that sleep is still a resounding favorite and off they go. Back to the life raft - At some point someone on the life raft may start to go nuts - they begin by taking about sinking the boat and being done with it - then they start trying to stab the boat and flail about with a knife. The crew on board need to make a decision - the immediate response is to secure the person possibly by a sudden blow - this is not a thought out response and it is not IN Anger - the "I" that has gone nuts is an immediate threat to all of the "I"s existence. If the crew member is killed by the action it is not taken as something needing punishment but rather only sadness and on some level relief from the dead persons threat because of its loss of self control. This is a daily occurrence in the life of a human - not always intense or so fateful but big as well as petty whims and inclinations come and go constantly. We go into a thanksgiving dinner knowing we will be with people who agitate us and some group of "I"s say - "don't talk politics with this person and don't drink too much". We get there and someone shows off a prized collection of fine wine and another sticks a current political debate in our face and off we are to a whole new set of "I"s that result in any number of fiascos and or fuming deliberations and resolutions on what to do differently next year. We think again and again that we are one "I" - and that we are in control - we want to think that Anger is an option like a glass of water. It generally takes decades to realize that walling off and controlling things is a fantasy as an approach to real change - walling off and controlling is a slow death and typically an already robotized and largely burped along life goes from one of sleep to the walking dead - one that is nearly entirely patterned and rigidized in beliefs, commitments to our mind loops and politics and DNA proclivities - and the God of our perceived abilities to conceptualize which by then is so myopic as to allow for nearly no other view than ones own nose and everything is framed from filter upon filter based in our fears and angers and habituations which now act as our comfort foods and sleeping pills. We may find Practice - it may find Us - it smooths the energies and clumps of "I"s that clog the Light - consistently ebbing away residual Karmic resonances that we tried on and have moved from but that still hold us in some areas. Practice moves us through Karmic resonances that we are just entering into and through those that we are fully grasped in. Practice is not a calisthenic - it is the trinity of our humanness in Presence and the unwavering resonance of Presence dismembering darkness.

In part my answer reflects what Dwai state above - it is a low frequency and an identified frequency - it is a past time reflection of who you are not in the present moment. A reflection of rigidized patterns within. I do not "use anger" but I am sometimes lost in it for a short time. Anger is essentially losing oneself. It is possible to be "at red" instantaneously - and it may appear to be anger but if one could see, it does not have to throw energy at a perceived threat and it does not have to displace centeredness. In this case it is not anger but a cleansing so to speak of lower vibration (often coming from within as a residual of patterned reactiveness). It is a high degree of neutrality and it is attained again as Dwai stated above: "At a certain point, one can get to a point where these negative energies cannot even penetrate your field. For that one has to become 'solid' in terms of their energy field. The best defense from low frequency emotions like anger, hatred, jealousy etc are to raise your own energetic frequency and develop a massive energetic field and mental range. " It is an interesting concept that is nearly always entirely misunderstood - it is understood in Perfect Perfection Concepts - but this is unnecessary and constraining in a most unproductive way: Imagine you are a big huge super friendly and very physically strong dog - pretty much no dog will bother your equilibrium - your state of happy mellow at ease-ness. Becoming neutral - being in self - oneness - approaching these things - one eases off reactionary patterns and they are broken and fall away in practice. This in and off itself slowly removes the dissipation of energies from the increasingly discarded patterns of reaction - it takes perseverence in dropping likes and dislikes that are identifications with otherness - me-ness. As the monkey grasps about less and less the higher expanded energies become available - simply in part because they now exist because they have not been dissipated and have had time to transform into higher energies and energies from which the gross physical, gross subtle and subtle bodies can grow beyond the base energies that abound. Increasingly - from simple perseverance in the basics of practice in embodiment, transformation makes buoyant ones spirit and light within the relative and non-dual alike. The energies become simply beyond words and ones reality is not IN conflict - in a sense - a very real sense - one becomes invisible to a great many energies and encounters.

Anger creates habituation to anger - it plows deep furrows within ones physical, gross subtle and subtle bodies. It supports identifications, mind loops and increased fight or flight modes. It is among the most difficult complex rigidized patternings to relinquish - it can take decades to truly move beyond in the most ardent pursuit of freedom from it once it has been truly been accommodated for by what would be best termed as incorrect thinking - unskillful means. This is completely different than a truly instinctive action related to actual threat and attack - not of words - though words may indicate a need for decisive action and a clear and present real danger. Unfortunately prior indulgence in reactionary anger will often destroy or deeply incapacitated ones ability to deal with dangerous or likely harmful situations by reading into them and exacerbating them rather than being capable of rational and or clear headed spontaneous reactions. Spontaneous reactions often immediately veer to identifications and rigidized patterns deep within and have disproportionate energetic explosiveness. This has nothing what so ever to do with the advocation of dullness and fence sitting - one can have the fullest of passion and articulation and the full range of voice to ones thoughts and emotions - but regular indulgence and admiration for rage and anger will create passageways for extreme explosion like major canals and dams and walls that have been built to override, wall off and overprotect identifications with ones positions and proclivities. In a fight - a real fight - anger is of no use - and there is no time for it - no indulgence in it. It is entirely wasteful and an interference in the spontaneity of the moment. However it can certainly look useful and can make entirely inhumane and barbaric action appear perfectly sane - and in certain totally insane times anger can make a slaughter seem like the thing to do. Contemplating its utility is often already an indication that your back story likes the idea of it being useful and is probably already a significant part of ones identifications, positions and "birthright". It is often associated with Decisiveness and this is not an unreasonable association. Decisiveness very often requires bringing a sort of redness of energies to conflicting ideas - inclinations - others input and general inertias. A clarifying ending energy to cease engagement in the babble and talk - this redness of energy is a clearing energy that looks like anger but it does not have to be anger - it can simply be a heating of energies - a clearing energy - and it often appears visibly as Red though it may also be a higher lavender or electric blue - and many other options and varieties. In the simplest sense Anger is imbalance - identification.

The advice to meditate with the eyes slightly open and the attention on the tip of ones nose is not to be taken as the best way or even an advised way - it is a way - and in many cases not the best advice and it is quite vague as proposed above. (I do not mean this in any way as an affront to the practice). Most meditation is too far forward in the head resulting in both poor meditation and strain. From the center of the head one will Be in meditation more easily. For many the eyes opened slightly is a good thing as it helps them not to wander - but for many the opposite is true - they may not space out but the monkey mind does not disappear. Meditation is Being In Self - once one is past the figeting and strain one moves to Self - the more "perfect pictures" there are to the "perfect way" to meditate the longer it takes to do away with the nit picking and find the growing stillness in light. Far to many are forward in the head and concentrating on the brow chakra - and in some cases the forehead chakra - in either case - these are localized meditations (sitting practices) - eventually one will meditate from the center of the head (or simply Be in meditation - with self - any "where" any "time") Also - with regard to the MCO - it is far more difficult to open in a sitting position on the floor - the leg channels simply do not have the same amount of energies moving in them while sitting. In a chair or standing is far more accomodating to this end. This then effects quite a number of other channels particularly the major side channels which are rarely given more than a passive glance - (as few have developed them and cannot recognize the utility of them). Regular practice opens them with no effort - but the leg channels must open considerably for the side channels to grow and this also requires the feet to open up. (it helps to massage the feet prior to practice - if you do not and your feet start to really really hurt during practice - at least you will know your feet are trying to open. Prior massage will help to remove the mounting pain problem - in most cases it will entirely comfort the process). For some the MCO will be a subtle movement - I was not taught anything about the MCO other than that it went up the Ren and down the Du - I visually traced it once (one time). I did not try to develop it or move it - the practice does that - I was not taught that it was important - and it was never particularly apparent until an absolutely huge opening of it quite unexpected and incredible, Prior to its opening - where it was clearly open - I had a sustained feeling of floating everywhere for a long time prior to the big opening - as though my feet were not on the ground or that I was walking on energy cushions - this persists, (This is not to be associated with a spacey feeling - quite the opposite - very grounded and in embodiment) My master was aware of my progress and this was in fact part of the awakening of the MCO. But he speaks no English and I have read nothing about Qi Gong - everything has been personal experience and then finding out what it means. Its has been quite a journey in Qi Gong - I teach it but many of my students know more than me regarding conceptual understanding and terms - in many cases they are walls they have to overcome.

In the great opening of the MCO the energies run up the back and down the front. It is not subtle and does not require any effort or visualization - at least with respect to regular Qi Gong practice.

This is not something cultivated with just a few 8 hour sessions. It is not something that is not related to the whole - the heart of the energy systems you have developed - the gross physical, gross subtle and subtle bodies. If you know basically nothing about these channels other than direct experience and observation they will unfold in general in practice as follows: Energies will appear to move up the front generally though not necessarily appear as moving down the back as clearly for quite some time to most of those who see/feel such things. In most people the front central area channels are the only ones fairly well defined. The inner side channels are generally very faint. Most of the inner head channels are not formed to a visible level. Energy centers are in general not particularly pronounce wthin the body with the exception of the major and minor regular centers of a particular person. (Most people functioned more or less in only one primary center and one supporting alternate center - chakra). The back channels consist of at least five channels - main channels and supporting side channels. Some front "channels" are more channels that are reflections of connections from the back channels forward and some are flows from circular motions of energy centers in the flower of their structures. The side channels have difficulty growing to a great extent without the supporting leg channels - these are mid placed side channels approximately in line with the nipples at their widest mid chest locations. The channels associated with the MCO are practically dormant if compared to a full opening and then the latter fusing of many of the channels into one. At the time that the MCO opens full it will become very large to approximately an 8-12" oval of massive energy all along its path and fully comparable to a full Kundalini onslaught but maintained for days or weeks and then subsiding to a degree.. This may be followed by a vast increase in the energy intensity while at the same time the size of the channel actually becomes infinitesimal smaller and intensely compressed by comparison - some 3/4 of an inch in diameter. The main center pole - extending from the perineum to the top of the head and slightly back of center will generally require considerable inner practice to become noticeable and may become relatively prominent wth martial artists given attention to the hara/abdomen/lower dan tien area. It will not become extraordinary until considerable changes have taken place well above the head and well below the waist and then also the fusing of various inner head and center of head and throat and on down takes place. Most that is known of the MCO is relatively mundane and this is far more true of the inner pole described above - assumption with regard to these descriptions will be necessarily extremely far from reality - they are inconceivable to mind and far beyond any psychedelic experiences and they are completely sustained (as in permanent). The MCO will dissapear in fusion with all major channels - the pole will become prominent on a much higher level and will remain as a clearly felt channel - but more of central embodiment - the axis of embodiment. For most this all takes years of practice - for some of us slower folks it takes endless decades - but all along it is unfolding. The key has never been short intensives here and there - it is sustained practice and living the life of practice - the basic practices are the big things - the secret stuff will come from the big basics in practice. (there is no secret stuff - just stuff that cannot be heard until it is known) carry salt measure your head frequently persevere

Seek some comprehensive advice from the teacher you mentioned - explain in detail what you have experienced but make sure to include what practices you have engaged in while "meditating". How you breath, where your awareness is centered. Many engaged in "meditation" are not meditating - they are actively engaged in "a sitting practice" - doing. Breath always into your lower dan tien - this will help to mediate the energies and overloads. Fasting would be recommended and stopping all active Doing practice until you receive clear guidance. Yoga Asana's would be helpful to relax the energies into and throughout all the nadis. Currently it would be wise to be less active and more exercising the passive until you speak to the teacher you mentioned. Caution is needed - (not fear) - in that you are experiencing kundalini symptoms and your bodies are trying to catch up to the energies that have built up quickly. This is something to take seriously - we have had several members that have participated in these forums from psychiatric facilities who experienced many of the things you have mentioned prior to becoming members of those facilities. The long form asanas will be helpful. Qi Gong only if your instructor fully knows your entire present situation and what habits you may have that would be decisively ill advised. Breathing habits and practices are among the most serious threats to energy deviations.

What appears to be the long path is generally the shortest and most sure. Much discussion would have you believe that 10 or 20 years is a long time - it is not - and it is not as though great and miraculous transformations are not happening all along the path. Nor does it always require a great deal of time - much can take place in just a few years - or months. Upon Awakening a foundation in the "bottom up approach" - an organic self revealing no-effort approach affords incredible strength in the simple habits that have been formed and the roots that are fully established in the gross physical and gross subtle bodies and in the subtle bodies. Even a few years in foundational practice will be of tremendous benefit if you move to top down practices - you will be far more grounded in fundamental practice and weather the winds in the head and heart far better. It is extremely easy to fallter even in the most exquisite of ways from the top down approach - and it is easy to become as the rabbit - very impressed with oneself and the many siddhis but unable to move beyond their mesmerizing effects while absolutely certain one is under no spell at all. One can reach very high degrees of being stuck and few will see the difference. If you own the mountain the head and heart will have no fear - refuge is never an issue. In the more heady teachings and heart teachings answers and assistance from the outside is more often sought and anxiousness and doubt abound. Heavy reliance on words and concepts create a vagueness and self reproach or dogmatic repetition of thinking. The bottom up approach encompasses the whole - nowhere does it not include the head and the heart and the bodies both subtle and gross The domino effect is only partially true - the idea that "a full head or heart opening" - 'enlightenment" will take care of the rest - this is false thinking however true it may happen. Much continues and much may not continue - it very much depends on the foundation of practice. Enlightenment is not a finished state.

Some suggestions/considerations: Generally static holds take time to work up to because among other things such as the muscles getting acclimated - certain channels need to open up in order to support the holds and it may be that you have jumped ahead of your channels capacities. Start with increments that push the limits just a bit and allow time for them to become relatively easy and then move up a few minutes to another level. It can also be that you are not breathing deeply enough and or that you are supporting your "efforts" with too much effort and the adrenals are coming in to play. Most students do not breath deeply enough and as frequently as would be most beneficial. It can also be exacerbated by timing - how soon after a meal as an example. Also obviously diet in general. The posture is obviously a concern but if we go past that and assume your posture is good, breathing OK and overall stance is correct - then where you hold your awareness is often also a simple factor and can easily effect several factors mentioned above. Are you breathing into your lower dan tien (LDT)? Breathing and Awareness in this center is particularly helpful to general pain - blocked energies - overloads - and stress/strain. It is where the Mountain is owned - it is the root - the base - the foundation - all the limbs have their core strength in this. It is a place of neutrality and power and compassion. If you find that awareness is somewhat difficult to simply have in the LDT - do not worry - but try to have it in the central axis. This axis is seen in the gross physical from the perineum to just slightly back of the top of the head - awareness anywhere along this axis is in touch with the root. I am not referring to the central back channel. Feel your breath as you are in your stance - feel it come in the nostrils - cool the bottom of the eyes balls - circulate near the ears - and pass down into the LDT. Be in the center of your head or in the central core of your middle dan tien - anywhere along the central axis - and find yourself dwelling more and more in the lower dan tien as you are in your stance. Do not pass judgement upon yourself if you float up or down on this axis - simply find yourself there and move down when it occurs to you - if this is difficult it does not matter - awareness in the central axis is a far greater asset. Hand and foot massage prior to practice is extremely helpful - foot is very helpful and hand is generally completely overlooked. Energies that must move out of the hands may be held there and have repercussions elsewhere. Energies that are required in the side channels and elsewhere will require the feet to open up. Twist the toes and the fingers from side to side and press the tips where small chakrams can often use a boost to open them up. Bend all the fingers back and open up the wrists. In general the pain does go away - it will be replaced by a warm effortless sensation. Perhaps this will be of some help

It can often be difficult to lay aside striving and give to ones self - to give the body ease - fun or a walk or sail. To lay aside the noise of mind loops and position - and breath. To not be right To just let go To not talk Becoming accustom to a free fall floating without grasping for a twig - breathing into and abiding in it. A never ending presence in Now - it seems it must be a life of service in happening

Sometimes the specificity of groups has made it difficult to figure out where to post - I am mostly "Way" oriented and not to a specific lineage. Foolishly perhaps but at this point (in contrast to decades ago) I see little differnce in the greater traditions of the East - and I mean that in the best of ways. Obviously in what I consider the small things there is a great deal of difference - but anyway - I wanted to put this in to convey what I feel when trying to figure out where to post a new topic (which I don't do all that much). There is no question that regarding the specifics of lineages in the details - I know next to nothing - so I defer to those above - specifically dwai and Michael Sternbach - their guidance may be far more exercised than mine.

Good god Zork - what the fuck is this? Don’t be a dork - read what was written - I never came close to the words you put in my mouth. Wow - what a shallow read.

No - it is not an umbrella term for any linage what so ever - but it has been bastardized by the religious right and old religion platforms and denigrated to now stand for what they have propagandize it to mean - a term that now brings nausea to many. The Sport “Yoga” calisthenics that Earl Grey referred to and the types of behaviors of those that mix and match and are in rehab - this has nothing to do with New Agers (accept as viewed from the propagandize inculcated view) In the broadest sense the New Ager is the epitome of the Daoist - “trying” not to be trying to be in present, spontaneous and in harmony. And that will look necessarily silly at times, concocted and bleached - but it is not ill intended though it certainly can be a bit insufferable at times. And it can be noted that instead of coming up with a good catch word for Non-Yoga Asana Calisthenics and never really making that a primary known and clear fact - we now have such things as Christian Yoga which again has absolutely nothing to do with Yoga. Nude Yoga is also catching on and in reverence to Marblehead I will not state that it is fake or demean it in any way.

I think Discussions of the Way is excellent - ! Meta-Talk means nothing at all to me - it may be my extreme age - I would go there just to see what it was about. Wanderers and Ponderers - not so bad - a suggestion from Silent Thunder Regarding the dislike or cast aside view of New Agers - The term New Age was vilified by the Religious Right - in reality it was and is (to me of extreme age) simply a headline name for a great and wonderful spiritual change that took place/is taking place in which the old and fossilized religious doctrines - and assumed at birth indoctrination was refocused upon - released - tossed out altogether - torn asunder. It was and is Women saying fuck this bullshit. It is Anti-establishment Anti-corporate Pillage Anti-pollution Pro-Earth Pro-Human Interaction Pro-Spiritual Investigation and Growth Pro-Openness and Exploration. It is also people into crystals and angels and other things which we may laugh at - but we seem to forget just how laughable are the many religious teachings which nearly all followers toss out as ridiculous even if in reality it means they are not actually believers in the religion they profess to be a part of. Most Christians toss the entire Old Testament off - and something like 60% believe in Reincarnation. Everytime I hear New Agers used as a word of denigration in a similar vein to Fundamentalists as brainless shallow fools here - in a site that is the exemplification of a teaching that speaks of spontaneity / non pretense - it is like slander from a falsified understanding - one fostered by the religious right and the blunt force of spiritual competition. -- Regarding a distaste for YouTube "initiates" and students of the potpourri lineage - it is what it is - if they were entirely enmeshed in a school they would probably not be here. Centuries ago when I first began studies I had to go to Occult Book Stores - that is where this stuff was sold. Regular book stores did not carry this stuff. I could not be happier that Practice is now showing up everywhere - and yes - most of the quality is not very good - but Wow is it ever better than the strict childish old crap I was fed as a child! I embrace the naive - even as they are cringe worthy and dickheads and often in rehab of some sort - this has been a place for the sincere to find their place and shed their jagged edges and the soft edges of this padded cell allow for a great deal of transmission to take place. Very fine transmission. (It is very exciting to see these changes take place - how they take place - what forms are offered up - the speed and clarity amid the clusterfuck - all the best and thanks to everyone!)

This is a great example of a Straw Man argument: It is basically impossible to find any cognizant "normal" human that does not see "a few points" that their political opponents could be right about. Arguing with no-one that exists within "normal" society is a favorite of those that have not done their homework.

The above quote was a re-quote from me/Spotless: "The Nazi Germany tactics - have found real root again - they have become the Way forward in the Republican Party. Repeat lies and with enough repetitions they become real (and simple people become the machines for our greatest tragedies)."

From Apex: "From a Buddhist perspective I think it might be helpful to say that anger, fear, uncertainty, dissatisfaction and so on - in any situation - are indispensable aids to vajrayana practice. By this I mean they give an opportunity for realising emptiness - because those emotions are fundamentally empty. By saying this I am not saying they don't matter - or that the political situation doesn't matter - I don't want to fall into the nihilist trap of saying 'its all illusion, man'. But it is very useful to use both good and bad situations for practice. So when we find a good situation we are happy for the benefit that arises - when we find a bad situation we are 'happy' for the opportunity to realise that what we are experiencing is a flux of energy." This is fine - and both true and difficult work. From Apex: "It must be true to say that whatever arises depends on causes and conditions - and this includes Trump. If you attack Trump then you are attacking the appearance of Trump - but if you look to the causes and conditions which gave rise to his election and deal with them then he will literally disappear (yes really) since whatever supports him will no longer be there. This is why I say that people voted for him because of dissatisfaction(s) in their lives - if you like, they were emotionally drawn to him (in sufficient numbers but not a majority) because they had needs. Needs that were not being met by the alternative narratives being presented about what had happened and what will happen. Perhaps you could say needs and aspirations - which I would say were born from (looking at the local time frame) chiefly the events since 9/11 when the USA was shocked into action/reaction leading to and through the 2008 financial crisis. Violent acts have violent results. Karma. I think that is why Trumps main bad feature, to me anyway, is instability - he's angry, defensive and personal when he doesn't need to be" No - simply not - partial truth and certainly inarguable partial truth but imagine saying this about Hitler - seriously put it in those terms: Trump became President partly because of dissatisfaction and attraction - but he was fundamentally elected on a pack of vitriol and hate and propaganda coming from he himself, from the Russian government, the religious right, the hate radio specialists, the "say anything you want against Hillary regardless of the truth" haters - his own birther myth about Obama - the anti-science crowd - the anti-women-choice crowd - and a great many organized Christian religions where in many cases the congregation was taught "that a vote for Hilary Clinton was a vote for the Devil". https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/politics/sd-me-church-bulletin-20161102-story.html. There was a reason well over half the nation threw up when they discovered the mistake that had taken place - that this mentally ill person was the head of The "United" States of America. It may come as a surprise to many here but I am not held in this web of hate or vitriol - I do however understand framing and the democrats have had a surprising lacking in the ability to frame an issue - though since Hitler Germany the world has not had a large western nation so under attack from complete and utter lies and propaganda - and the inertia's of complete Insanity. The "Republican Party" is truly insane - and those that are still breathing some portion of reality are leaving or distancing themselves - like Christian's distancing themselves from nearly the entire bible and picking out what they like - and enjoying the momentum of centuries of Inquisitions, torture and mind control/fear/propaganda - its why so many are leaving but so few are stating why. For those from other countries - it may be like hearing about a daughter being raped - it is horrible but not personal. When your own daughter is being raped and it is being done while you are held to watch - it is personal - doubly personal. There is nothing about this President and his followers and the machine of hate that it spews that is normal politics - this is indeed nothing of the sort. In my previous posts I took a picture of what is happening - and put it into words - I was not in a frame of mind of hate - not in a frame of mind to spew - I was not in the inertia's of Democrat's ideology. Nazi Germany tactics - have found real root again - they have become the Way forward in the Republican Party. Repeat lies and with enough repetitions they become real (and simple people become the machines for our greatest tragedies). On a clear day - it is easy to see smoke rising - and it is not opinion to say that the smoke is rising. One does not need to be mad in order to state the perils of a fire spreading to a town just downwind of the fire that is spreading. When trying to summarize in words a fire of hate and lies - it may appear that the person summarizing is lost in the fire - but I assure you I am as cool as a cucumber - and I stand firmly against the machine of "exclusiveness and agenda at all costs" and the nazi machine of the Republican Party.

I was just about to ask her if she really thought they were the same - the above is perfect!

The “right” : The Christians Who Blamed Hurricane Katrina on Sinners Are Very ... https://friendlyatheist.patheos.com/.../the-christians-who-blamed-hurricane-katrina-on-... 1. Aug 29, 2017 - When Hurricane Katrina hit New Orleans, there was no shortage of pastors who said it was just God’s wrath for the city’s sexual permissiveness. ... No Christian with a sizable following is blaming Texas for being too godless, too accepting of abortion, too tolerant of homosexuality ... Gay people to blame for Hurricane Harvey, say evangelical Christian ... https://www.independent.co.uk › News › World › Americas 1. Sep 6, 2017 - A number of Christian leaders have blamed LGBT people for causing Hurricane Harvey. Despite overwhelming evidence that supports climate change as a factor in the devastating storm and subsequent flooding, a handful of evangelical leaders have ludicrously suggested the LGBT ... 6 most absurd things the Christian right has blamed on gays | Salon.com https://www.salon.com/.../6_most_absurd_things_the_christian_right_has_blamed_on... 1. Apr 11, 2014 - 6 most absurd things the Christian right has blamed on gays .... entered a classic in the genre when he blamed Hurricane Katrina's destruction ... --- On a lighter note: The Actor playing Jesus and the director were both hit by lightning during the shooting of Mel Gibson’s movie – The Passion of Christ http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/3209223.stm Not a word about God’s wrath or the odds of it happening – and it happened twice to the director during the shoot – just exactly what do you think the odds are of that happening?? God only knows... Someone asked in apparent seriousness "How on earth is so much anti-trump rhetoric acceptable?" and they put it is all caps so I think they were actually serious. Just in case you have not been near any media or listening devices for the past 50 years - or only local media and you live in a jungle - Trump said his followers would still be behind him even if he killed somebody in cold blood in the streets in the daylight - and they agreed. Trump is a proud pussy grabbing pathological liar who demeans women, our country, our democracy and its foundations - a proud con-man, cheat and buddy of murderers and bullies abroad. He walks on the face of our strongest allies and shits on the best of humanity. We have been so entirely easy on him it is ridiculous. And you do not have to be positioned in hate or malice or some lack of love to see it and understand it - he is dis-ease - a very sick human - a certifiable mentally ill person - leading a flock of nuts and a mob of fools. He is Everything in the making of a Hitler and the blind fools that Made Germany Great Again (NOT).