chenping
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Everything posted by chenping
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Can there be such a thing as a Nazi Dao?
chenping replied to Mark Saltveit's topic in Daoist Discussion
Sorry about that. All that is available to read and see on TV (History Channel) about German history is negative propaganda. -
Drifting Cloud, may I reply to your post? The distinction you have made between the Daoist practitioner of tradition (Chinese, Korean, Japanese?) and the "Barnes & Noble" Daoist (of the west) has been discussed at length here at Tao Bum, as I noticed. You seem to be leaning towards the Daoist practioner (of tradition) who "does it" and not the other kind of Daoist who just "think about it". Philosophical Daoism is a recent phenomenon in the west. It hasn't really "taken root" as yet because the philosophy is still gestating. Also, the various translations don't make it easy to pin down anything practicable. At any rate, philosophical Daoism is definitely not traditional Daoism. But thinking is also doing in a mental sense. From reflection comes an attitude that imperceptibly influence the way one lives. Doesn't that count as practice?
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Can there be such a thing as a Nazi Dao?
chenping replied to Mark Saltveit's topic in Daoist Discussion
First of all, I am not justifying all those horrible things that happened during time of war. Atrocities occur in all wars including "holy" ones. Nazism is an ideology like Christianity, Islam, or Hinduism. Ideology should not be judged by the actions of its practitioners. Just because a taichi practitioner goes around killing people with his art doesn't mean that taichi is evil. If we want to examine Nazism, then inquire into its ideology but don't condemn it just because someone's skin was used to make a lampshade. If we do this, then why not demonize modern medicine and scientific technology? Political ideology has been around ever since humans began to live together in a society be it a single family, a tribe or a nation. The basic premise of any social idea, including Nazism, is utopia. Therefore, all social ideas are well-intentioned and none is absolutely evil. Daoism is also an ideology and we embrace it because we believe its principles are good. In this sense, all social ideologies are the same and only their names are different. Similarly, all practitioners of ideology are the same, namely humans; only their labels - be it Nazis or Daoists - are different. If the United States were to decline as a society, it would not be on account of its social ideology which protects the individual and the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. This ideology was formulated to improve on all previous social ideologies meant for the common good. How can this ever be evil? If this social experiment fails, then is it the fault of the ideology or the practitioner? -
Can there be such a thing as a Nazi Dao?
chenping replied to Mark Saltveit's topic in Daoist Discussion
Nazism is a label with negative connotations. If one is willing to get past the prejudice, then it might be possible to validate Nazism as a way consistent with Daoist principles. Take Marxism, for instance. Its principles are good. Its practice is not so good. This doesn't mean that Marxism is not in line with Daoist principles. -
If he were one of them, he would be a millionaire CEO and not a garbage man! Look, we have a lot to iron out and I like it that we are so far apart in our thinking. Have you considered two matters of fact? Firstly, society of the free kind in the USA or the unfree kind in the PRC (People's Republic of China) is made up of classes. This has nothing to do with political ideology but everything to do with human nature which, like good whiskey, never varies. We are class-bound creatures. It's in our psychological DNA. Secondly, Daoism came out of ancient China's elitist culture. The top guns who created and were into the DDJ, the I Ching, Doctrine of the Mean, Art of War, and stuff like that, all of them believed in the Mandate of Heaven, not democracy. There is no way you could convince them that a garbage man is cut out to ascend the Dragon Throne as Son of Heaven. And I believe the mind-set is the same at any premier private country club in egalitarian America. Forget the garbage man, the initiation fees at these citadels of wealth are so high that even single-digit millionaire CEOs need not apply. And when the fees to get in are ridiculously low (like several thousand bucks) at the Augusta National Golf Club, it is only by invitation from those Sons of Heaven at the Club. To those folks, even money is not classy enough. Why are you fixated on the garbage man's social status? Isn't a man's dignity based on having enough to eat?
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Can there be such a thing as a Nazi Dao?
chenping replied to Mark Saltveit's topic in Daoist Discussion
By total non-action (which is not imagined because I actually live this way), I mean non-interference with people's lives around me and emotionally dis-engaged with situations at hand. Sorry, I am unable to clarify with a response this quick. -
Can there be such a thing as a Nazi Dao?
chenping replied to Mark Saltveit's topic in Daoist Discussion
I really mean total non-action. And it's not philosophy but necessary and doable if one is to remain sane. But then I don't know if this is off-topic. Can I speak? Please? -
You want a class-less society and believe that Daoism is the way to go. But you, personally, are not free of class identity. As long as you are somebody with a social identity, you need a social structure to fit in. Confucianism is about fitting in. Society is an organism just as the human body is an organism with different parts that fit into a harmonious workable whole. Confucius saw that and assigned each his place in the structure of society. You hate that because you don't like the place assigned you in society and you want equality so no one is better off than you. Well, someone has to be the head and another the asswhole. You don't like that. You want Daoism so no one gets to be the head even if everyone become asswholes. (Sorry for the mispellings; otherwise, they won't fit in polite conversation.)
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Can there be such a thing as a Nazi Dao?
chenping replied to Mark Saltveit's topic in Daoist Discussion
It's not an easy spot to be in anywhere anytime. As long as one has to live among people, it's their way or you become the bad guy. -
Can there be such a thing as a Nazi Dao?
chenping replied to Mark Saltveit's topic in Daoist Discussion
Good point. One can't be too careful about falling into the trap of presumption. The sloppy mind is the devil's workshop. -
Can there be such a thing as a Nazi Dao?
chenping replied to Mark Saltveit's topic in Daoist Discussion
What threads? I am not talking about politics in practice but the philosophy of politics. Governing but not meddling sounds like an oxymoron but who knows? We won't know it's silly unless that can be established as a fact. -
Can there be such a thing as a Nazi Dao?
chenping replied to Mark Saltveit's topic in Daoist Discussion
The DDJ, as you must surely know, is indeed an idea that we made up. There is no divine transmission, that's for sure. At any rate, why do you say total non-action is not grounded in material existence? On the one hand, you are correct because practitioners of total non-action are not quite here. On the other hand, total non-action is practicable and the intelligent thing to do if it is done in a sensible way. -
Can there be such a thing as a Nazi Dao?
chenping replied to Mark Saltveit's topic in Daoist Discussion
Have you tracked this out? So what if it is a political prognosis? Let's give us your best shot. How would you like the USA government to be? Do you support Ron Paul's libertarian manifesto? -
Poor people are better? Suffering is not necessarily good for the soul. How about Detroit? There is a bar there called "The Sewer" where the Sugarman once played.
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Can there be such a thing as a Nazi Dao?
chenping replied to Mark Saltveit's topic in Daoist Discussion
What is tyranny? It all comes back to popular opinion. Is it possible to pin it down? If not, then being on the right side of a conflict is all that matters. If Hitler had won, this whole world would be run like Singapore, the political model chosen by China. -
While we are at it, how about the Hamptons, the South of France, or Tuscany? You can even kick things up a notch with a 100 footer Ferretti power yacht. Do it and the valley spirit never dies. Bet on it.
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What's the difference between unhappiness with oneself and unhappiness with one's home country?? People do emigrate and it happens all the time when there is a looking forward to a new life or running away from a war-torn situation. But when you are upset with the government of the day, then there is no escape.
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There is no escape for those who are unhappy with their home country.
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Can there be such a thing as a Nazi Dao?
chenping replied to Mark Saltveit's topic in Daoist Discussion
Of what? The bag of tricks called democracy? It always works especially when it doesn't. Black magic is brilliant. -
Can there be such a thing as a Nazi Dao?
chenping replied to Mark Saltveit's topic in Daoist Discussion
This is characteristic of political theatre especially in America where billions of dollars are spent just to win the presidential election. The only way to destroy black magic is to remove the black magician's bag of tricks, namely, democracy. -
Can there be such a thing as a Nazi Dao?
chenping replied to Mark Saltveit's topic in Daoist Discussion
I suppose we would have to consider this impersonally from no perspective. Mark was talking about "effective Dao" which implies a perfect way of doing anything. But doing always involves a doer, a person driven by a perspective. -
I am happy to be here and look forward to discussions with all of you.
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Can there be such a thing as a Nazi Dao?
chenping replied to Mark Saltveit's topic in Daoist Discussion
Evil is a fact. I don't deny this. Our response to evil that we do is visceral. We must not explain it away one way or another. Pointing out the evil doer is something else. It's an abdication of responsibility when we pin evil on someone else. -
Can there be such a thing as a Nazi Dao?
chenping replied to Mark Saltveit's topic in Daoist Discussion
I think this is an amazing impartial response. No one sees himself as an evil doer. It is always the other guy, at the receiving end who, seeing the evil, reacts to it, gives life to and foments more evil. I know that Jesus taught a way to stop this chain reaction by turning the other cheek to end the "karma" of violence. What about the Tao Te Ching? Does it teach a way to deal with perceived injustice that we suffer at the hands of others?
