Rara

Word.

Yeah, what these guys said

Liking the contrasting views. Alls I gotta say in addition is that surely as modern-day Taoists we should still be ok to go with the flow within our current societies, especially now that we have trained enough to be mindful and realise exactly what and where we are...

Also, I am happy to see a thread that compares such a simple text/philosophy to what has become a movement that focuses heavily on cultivation. Like you say, meditation is a tool but not the central part if we are referring to the Tao Te Ching. Thank you for bringing this to the forum!

This is a very good thread...seeing two completely opposite sides to the spectrum. I wouldn't say "worst idea ever" Maybe for some, but everyone on their separate paths are entitled to threir own adventures. Perhaps this will work for you @DeadDragon . I certainly like your "non-obligation" angle. That way, it seems like it is yourproject that others can contribute as much or as little to. I have had similar thoughts myself, but concluded that my reasons would be to run away from my responsibilities, rather than to create a genuinely Taoist life. My family needs me, and whatever I can provide for them is a big part of my way. But as I said, we are all on different paths. If this isyour calling, who am I to disagree?

Noooooooooooooo *bangs head against wall*

Sounds quite contradictory doesn't it? So you see how deleting "I" from the equation can lead to such confusion? This is a bit like the existence vs non-existence debate in the other thread hehe. Surely if we are aware that "I" can be used in the context of perception, it's can't be too harmful? So far, I understand not using it as it relates to the ego, but surely once we have this firmly understood, we should go back to using "I". Otherwise, how am "I" going to help anyone else? MINDF***!!

Lol yes. My brain feels like it's digesting an engine right now!

Thank @Taomeow...Can you remember the thread name?

I shall get involved at some point. Some big work landed on my desk last night so slowly but surely!

Well that's just it. What DOES need to be done? Say for example I have an ambition to "become something in life" ... I dunno, say I'm Bruce Lee at this point. What if I then start to take "I" out of my affirmations. Will I still become a worldwide martial arts, action film hit?

@ion I like your post a lot. So are you saying that any "misfortunes" would be down to our own perceptions of good and bad, and if one is to experience "bad karma", it's down to their own particular attachment to that particular guilt? If so, then we should kill karma in our practice...forget about it. Without it there, we can't drag ourselves down...

Yes, I know what you mean. For example, if I go to the supermarket, I usually predict when the quiet time will be and go then. 95% of the time I'm right, but every so often, I get a crazy surprise and find the place packed despite it not being a public holiday or anything. It also happens that the rest of my day tends to go completely to pot too, and that I obtain nothing but frustration in that day!

Aha! Found the thread. Just watched this from Alan Watts and felt it to be quite relevant: I find the part about "cheating karma" or "cheating the devil" particularly interesting. Reason being is that, I constantly find myself thinking that I need to do certain things to undo bad karma (even though I don't want to believe it, I'm still figuring out a way) I often find that I'm never successful in any attempt and I jut get stressed with it all. TRYING to do certain good deeds and TRYING to ignore the impulses to do bad ones (like subtly deceiving people to get their custom - I mean hell, I find it difficult to sell my service because my honest belief is that no one NEEDS anything so to speak...so I'm forcing myself to try and believe they need my service!) - for the record, I have an erratic career or a musician/actor and have to make up my shortfalls with freelance marketing jobs. So eventually I end up having to, in my mind, lie a bit to put food on the table. But this is just something that I have a problem with - I just have a belief system that money is a load of crap and who am I to try and sell my service to someone because there's very few services that I really appreciate in the world? lol Does that mean I still carry bad karma? Should I be ridding myself of my business life because the back of my mind sees selling as bad? Probably not. Other people wont see a problem with what I do...so therefore, in someone else's eyes, I'm not doing anything wrong. But this is the sort of complicated thinking that Watts describes in the video and on the other hand to all of this, maybe I should just forget everything and just get on with it. Day by day, task by task. maybe my belief system is the problem and I have a guilty conscience for absolutely no reason at all! Perhaps my brain just needs to switch off! Just thinking this might have been better in a new thread. Oh well, see what people think hehe.

Hmmm, I think I understand. I need to stop saying I at this point lol

I've had a lot of lucid dreams over the past couple of years...my first since I was about 14. Very long story behind all this, but anyway, the main points: I too have seen Guatama Buddha and Amitabha, but more so in meditation. I later learnt that they were pointing me in a direction, for I was seeking some answers. I also learnt not to get attached, as all these are simply learning experiences. However, one day I had a migraine and passed out on my bed just as my girlfriend went into the shower. There, my eyes were semi-open but all I saw around me was a meadow with a large tree and pink flowers. I was certainly in the lucid dream state from then as I was so familiar with the feeling from other visions I had. As I lay there in pain, the Buddha approached me and knelt down. He handed me a flower, smiling, then took off. I felt his presence right there and it was so amazing, a tear of joy came to my eye. Then I heard the shower stop running and suddenly I snapped out of it. I quickly wiped the tear from my face and then my girlfriend walks back in. What strange timing! From then on, my migraine continued to get better and by the evening, it was gone. N.B I never get migraines. I have had many other lucid dreams too. If we are sharing more, I will go on...

Thanks for this... Every now and then, I hear myself saying "what on earth is wrong with people today?!" I can feel the chaos in there air. And spotting synchronicity too...with open eyes, you can see patterns daily. It helps shape the day if we can pay attention As for Magnolia, damn, I haven't seen that in about 10 years! Now I'm in the mood. Thanks for posting and I will read up more on Ganying

When I tried to adopt this I became demotivated I was so carefree that I just stopped doing things...

I'm currently trying to make waves in the Hermetic section of this forum. Not so successful. But I started studying the Kybalion recently. Some things in there that might help to to make sense of your many questions @becomethepath

Anyone noticed how it becomes much easier to forgive, admit wrongness etc the more it's practiced? Nowadays, I feel just comfort when doing so...so it's actually easy now!

Nope...where do I sign?

Exists within your perception, yes. Like everything in my room right now exists for me. What More_Pie_Guy is saying is more on the quantum mechanics level...I think. We perceive it to be real but we are merely just a dream in some other mind that we're stuck inside.

Forgiving has always been so difficult for me. But then a friend told me that if I were to forgive certain people in my life that I was very angry at for committing the most despicable deeds, the skies would open for me. So I took his advice and guess what happened?

I know exactly what you mean, and this is a shame. I had to learn to stop arguing and let people be. If people think you're wrong, so what? You know you are right and you are the only one living your life and that's all that matters.

Yeah but the "Atheistic Buddhists" still wear the robes and have their specific systems. Though I agree that they are more of a philospohical bunch, they still appear to the naked eye as a religious group. Now I see what you're saying. To the naked eye, atheists do not appear as following a religion. There are no extremes when it comes to collectively doing anything, like a Christian goes to church every day - atheists have no said rituals. But my point is there are different types. Like religious people, some have an inherent blind anti-faith (as oppised to blind faith hehe) and happily call themselves atheist and will leave it there. No justification, other than saying ignorant things such as "if God were real, why are there people starving in the world" - just a quick example off the top if my head. You know what I mean. But these people will also be the first to label themselves, proudly, Atheist .... Like they hold the truth of the universe yet there are no signs of wisdom! Of course, you are on your own journey and are more intellegent than that. But surely you agree on the front that all labels have connotations of belonging and conforming to a specific belief. Even Taoists! I read somewhere that it was said that Zhuangzi didn't identify himself, or even realise for that matter, he was a Taoist. And I am pretty sure that further down the line, I will probably forget that I am.