Rara

I agree with this. I think it was one of the Giles', to paraphrase, that said that Lao Tzu's philosophy leaned more to the submissive or humble side (I think we all know this, really) So where is the yang to the yin? The balance that is key to all Taoists? Possibly the Confucian school of thought...

I feel it must go further back...I mean, the term "folk Taoism" comes to mind. I get this picture of villagers living in very poor, modest conditions using remedies from the land, singing around a fire, having a good community spirit etc. If Lao Tzu did leave his post and become a hermit, he must have found value in what his ancients practiced...far away as possible from the material world. Chuang Tzu speaks of a time before the Tao was disrupted...before emperors and sages interfered.

Yes, time is a big factor, as well as money. I quit a job a few weeks ago because it took me away from home too much, and often when I was at home, I was bringing the work back with me. It seriously interfered with my cultivation. My colleague was semi-retired and had half of the duties that I did. He's not a Taoist but he certainly has more capacity to live the life than I (did)

Now this is true. I talk about wanting to do similar things - but I have practical reasons not to right now. That doesn't stop me from getting as much practice in as I know/can do for the time being.

Thanks Silent Thunder. Do these two still reside in Wudang?

Fair about the monks and nuns making money for those reasons. I'm not convinced about what you say about those that can afford good housing and nutrition etc though. That would be I, technically middle class...but my access to "real" Daoism requires me to jump on a plane and spend thousands of pounds at a school I would think. It's not like we have Daoism where I live - temples etc...

Where did you train, if you don't mind me asking? But this is what I meant. As far as I'm aware, to get the "real stuff", you gotta find it and pay some good dollar. The origins of these techniques though were surely practiced by the poor though, no?

I always said in school that to be one of the smart kids, I had to work twice as hard as them...

Heya. I've skimmed most of the thread... ...just wondering about Chuang Tzu's emphasis on skill acquisition (if this hasn't been mentioned already) ...and I'm pretty sure this was meant in the OP anyway, no? The butcher and ox story comes to mind...

You're in a Chinese restaurant in the west, and you have a pair of chopsticks AND a spoon for fried rice. Which do you choose as a Taoist? The spoon surely? The path of least resistance and all...

Some answers for you... 2) No, correct. "Popular music" has a shelf life. Also listener's mood, etc will affect decision making in buying/listening. But I think there is still an argument to be made why the majority of people make a choice. What is it about "Billie Jean" that makes EVERYONE stand up and dance in a bar? 3) Yep. Most of the best music is crap (if you ask an academic musician)

Hi Kar3n - nice to see you again. Yes, I had another go this morning, twice. Same again, not as extreme...I would describe my "chokes" as more joyful though...I converted the cries into laughs. Thanks. If I do it and get a recording, I'll send you a copy....if it's good

Hey bums, I've taken almost 3 years out of performing music and took a job with high responsibility. Since leaving last Friday, the urge to play has been overwhelming. So I started jamming some covers for a bit of fun and realised that I wanted to build on that and perform a short set maybe this summer. Now... Somehow, it has just come to me that one of my favourite songs ever, must be in the set. This song is Cornflake Girl, by Tori Amos. I've always been aware of its themes but for some reason, have never really looked at the lyrics nor sung along to it. Over the past few days, I crossed that line and EVERY time I sing along with effort, I find I am struggling to keep it together. This morning I decided I would listen to the song on loop in the car to practice the lyrics/phrasing and the experience was so overwhelming. I started crying and experienced all sorts of emotions that I cannot describe. The rain was pouring down, the sun was out and everything was just speaking to me, like my soul was opening. Does anybody know what this sensation could be? I don't have any conscious trauma or anything related to the lyrics...part of the reason why I wanted to sing the song was BECAUSE I was male, too. Let me know if you've ever had anything like this. Peace and blessings to you all.

Why do you go to the karaoke bar? A part of me thinks you're trying to annoy people Yeah, I sure do know about those chills. Just these tears, lumps in the throat for this song, I wish I knew what was going on there.

I'm sure it'll pass, but man, I have to wait until it does before I'm "gig ready"

Thanks for clarifying. Can't (and wouldn't want to) argue with that.

There sure is an objective quality, but I'm not sure this really aplloes to the Billboard Top 40. Progressive rock would always top the charts if that were the case imo

Thanks for this, I'll have a proper read later. But yes, the wiki article says in itself about "interpretations", but indeed, if I were to take Chuang Tzu's stories as an example, the basic idea is there but no exact manual.

I don't see what the difference is between taking a drug, drinking coffee, eating chocolate or broccoli. All of the above can alter your mental and physical wellbeing. Taking too many drugs has consequences, but believe me, so does eating too many veggies. You could claim one is worse than the other but that aside, microdosing surely has to be less harmful than eating 5 boxes of chocolate a night. *Disclaimer - If you do smoke a lot of weed, be prepared to eat 5 boxes of chocolate in a night

PR has a lot to do with it. And sales forces. A good hook does help though. I say it's mainly subjective!

Rhetorical question alert: To learn Daoism from those with heritage or a lineage of "credibility", where do you go and how much does it cost you?

I don't think this was ever explicit in either of Lao Tzu or Chuang Tzu's works. Taoists also prescribe visualisation meditation, especially if one is depressed. I believe that meditation would be "situation depending"

Following on from my post above... Yes. You cannot speak about Dao. But if you REALLY must, heres a little book for you to try and get to grips with it.

Actually I think the OP was right first time. The braggers/overdoers appear to me to be those struggling with Daoism. The DDJ is a rulebook in that it's a philosophy. If you break the rules then you're following a different philosophy, right?

Excellent post