Rara

This has been on my mind a lot. Away from any dogmas or schools of thought in Taoism, I'd like to focus solely on Lao Tzu's words and ask - what are the main differences between these philosophies? My main understanding is that Hedonism could lead to over indulgence, and that maximizing pleasure is a nice idea, but surely impossible as we all have to experience a degree of displeasure. Also, by one maximizing pleasure for themselves, does this tip the scales so that others inevitably will be affected negatively by your own pursuits? How does the Taoist live differently? More frugal yet still achieving a same result? Does the Taoist "transcend" pleasure more by enjoying a stripped-down life, as opposed to seeking ways to enhance it? Have I answered all my own questions?

Absolutely. But the methods of application remain the same, and that can be in martial arts or anything else, you name it. There is an art to everything. Or a "Tao", if you will.

Liking this thread. I am more of a Chuang Tzu fan, but without following a religious lineage, I get just enough open-mindedness out of the philosophy to make me, I dunno, agnostic, I guess. But yes, application in the material world is certainly a big thing that I think lots of fantasy-Taoists or new agers lack. Are you into martial arts? Even of you're not, Bruce Lee's "The Tao of Kung Fu" book is quite refreshing. Speaks a lot about using the philosophy in martial arts with no hocus pocus.

You just did it again. Logged in 5 mins ago haha

I've been chilling with some very peaceful and lovely Muslims as of late. Their philosophy is not too far from the Taoist one, really.

My emoji is my instant reaction. But for bad-joke sake, I could have used the confused one. Ba-dum.

I thought this may be the case because "Old Master" is the same translation for Lao Tzu, I believe (in which he is later referred to as)

Who is old longears meant to be? Are we supposed to know this? Anyway, Confucius seems to be looking everywhere for this Tao. Under the rug, maybe?

Stop being online as I log in Ah, ole Iron Crutch. You never know! This takes me back years - the old guy that looks like Doc from Back to the Future who kept springing up. Or everywhere I walked, a fella that looks like Levi Roots, in the exact same blazer and jeans every day. I was dropping leaflets for my friend's pizza shop at the time - so I was driven to different locations all over town. And Huddersfield is a BIG town. This guy was always on foot. So what was he doing crossing paths with me every day? You just never know. But I think subconsciously, we do.

Yes. This story really helped me out a good 7 years ago. What's it's origin?

I'm having a lot of synchronicity happening at the moment Whether or not this was a sage, I do find it fascinating how you'll find young individuals with such qualities - and elder individuals with non whatsoever. Some might say that may be from cultivation in previous lives. Hmmmmm.

I almost did this deliberately to provoke the response that you just gave I actually don't think of the butterfly dream of having the significance (or reincarnation) that this part does. I feel that is more to do with perception and understanding life as an illusion based on your mind's experience. This book keeps adding layers upon layers on my own mind. Time to fast

If they are real sages, they should be out there doing some actual work. Who knows who is walking among us. One could even be your local checkout girl.

Hello all. I'm very late to this one, but I just wanted to throw something into the mix. I see that a few of you touched upon this concept on the previous page, but... In my Giles translation in the compilation book "Tao - The Way", the following is put under the subcategory of "Immortality of the Soul" "To have attained to the human form must be always a source of joy. And then, to undergo countless transitions, with only the infinite to look forward to, what incomparable bliss is that! Therefore it is that the truly wise rejoice in that which can never be lost, but endures always." I don't know about you, but this speaks to me about an eternal soul. Thus, life after death and "countless transitions" being reincarnation? And human form being one of these reincarnations. With the words translated differently by others though, it's not as explicit. This is on my mind because I've been looking at more of the "folk" or "spititual" Taoist beliefs (that existed pre TTC) and this idea of reincarnation or transformation seems to be one. Do you think this is what is meant? Or do you think there is more metaphor than literal meaning to this?

Do you mean that the feeling of wanting to explode is overridden by the antidepressant? When I took them, I felt like I was being weighed down into zombie mode. I asked the doctor to take me off after two weeks, and had to come off gradually. I'd rather be drug free and mad haha. I find changing my environment to suit my personality is the better medicine. Funny you should mention the hair. I'm dropping the recruitment work that I've been doing for over two years and growing my hair! I feel like I lost a bit of "me" from cutting it.

I don't give a damn about any other philoaophy other than the Taoist one

I like this. Application is key and I always use my work peers to aid my practice. I work in a competitive field and we all do get a bit excited over results. But when I'm done for the day, if I've become overly proud of our successes, I do tell myself to cool it and restore myself. After all, you can't win them all, and part of my problems whenever I've had them, have stemmed from being a bad loser or being upset because I couldn't get my own way. I'm not sure that the others around me quite do the same. They're pretty amped up a lot of the time. They also have big guts, chain smoke and have regular lavish holidays.

I can't argue with this The only thing I wish to say is that I didn't quite mean to imply that I was treating the words of Lao Tzu as gospel - but I do see how I wrote that does actually imply that. What I mean to say is to understand how traditional Taoist philosophy approaches life in comparison to Hedonism. I just wanted to avoid any extras such as immortals, magic etc. as I deem all that irrelevant to my question. Merely focus on the "core philosophy"

I build from the bottom up because it feels right to do so. Others would argue that the Buddhist way, is the way. New agers seem obsessed with third eye and so on. But the end result is that it works for whoever is practicing it. How can we define shen and how it is really cultivated? Anyone can walk around and claim their shen has been nourished. Anyone can walk around and claim enlightenment. Do you feel calm, at peace and balanced? If so, your method will be working for you and it won't matter how you build. So really, I have no answer. Only that these ideas go far beyond what is useful for me. I'm more occupied with breathing into my belly to concern myself with these

Not at all...on fact, this didn't cross my mind!

All of these. But I am working on passing on moods that make me want to binge or eat for indulgence etc. Fasting always makes me enjoy meals much more. Happy breaking of the fast!

@moment Thanks. I did see your reply a while ago but it's taken some time to digest

Thank you. I do see, if hedonism is for pleasure, then the goal is more orientated toward avoiding "bad". Would you agree?

Wow, you're doing the outer chapters. Cool! I picked a poop one to come back to but thanks anyway MH

This. I got my first credit card when I had a few grand in the bank. Play the game!