Rara

I read it...it's good!

Hehe...your last post said "logspot"

@FraterUFA I should add that The Kybalion was handed to me to read a couple of years ago and towards the end, it did say, now that I have inherited the information, it is a duty to myself to put it in to practice... So I seek to begin with the material. I feel it will help the spiritual/meditative side.

Perhaps this thread might help me still. I have no experience, other than meditation. I have just developed an interest in alchemy along the way.

Yes...I guess by doing this, if I succeed, it would help me understand the way the mental process works...

So it finally happened... I'm currently working at a scare attraction on a farm and I have been touched by how happy the animals are there. We have been channeling and the other night when I got in, I was eating steak and I just felt so wrong. What a hypocrite I was to "love" all these beings and then I'm eating their brothers and sisters, just because I was justifying the food chain to myself. So, I'm quitting the meat, which has been a "daily necessity" for me for the past 25 years of existence (not counting year 1 when I must have spent most of my time with milk) Now, I know that I'm going to have to take a shock to my system while my body goes through a transformation. I admit that I'm a bit scared as I'm so used to having meat protein to fuel my active life and martial arts. I don't really want to eat all that meat substitute crap and I'm concerned that I might be missing something vital in my diet. Also, I have such a good relationship with my local butcher. What happens when I inevitably pass his shop one day, months after not going to him? Shall I just be straight with him and not care about being judged? I currently have meat in my fridge and freezer but once that's gone, that's it for me. So just looking to get some safe diet advice before I take the leap... Thanks in advance for reading and any help you can provide.

Perhaps, but I wasn't prepared to experiment any further. My brain was getting scatty and everyday relationships were getting affected. But we all react differently. I can't take alcohol like some other humans can, for example. And bear in mind, I'm on the road quite a lot and healthy veggie options are few and far between. I've never eaten so much pizza and cheese pasties in such a short space of time!

I agree! I had lamb for the first time this year today ...didn't enjoy it at all. The flow aspect sounds good. I was watching The Tai Chi Master film with Jet Li again earlier. Shaolin guys exiled to a village of peasants and Taoists...one asks if they only have meat as he is only used to eating vegetarian. The other says "master said we will have to adapt" and tucks straight in.

I'm less imaginitive these days. I write less and less songs. I blame adopting kung fu. I've learn to channel any anger more appropriately so that I don't lash out. Problem is, I have little left for my notepad now. So I guess Chuang Tzu didn't hit wallbags. He dazed and had butterfly dreams. Or just made it all up for fun. Either way, that crazy cat has got a few of us hooked!

My pleasure. Maybe one day we can have a Li Po sub-forum...his carefree drunkeness is wonderful. Lots of drunken style of kung fu and even tai chi adopt this emotion without one needing to be drunk too, so happy you can get there in meditation! The Guinness-downing immortal is Iron Crutch Li! If you fancy a read: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Li_Tieguai My friend responded to me on messenger today with the disclaimer: but it's just what the medium saw, so I just took his word for it. It's just a story. So, of course, we take this with a pinch of salt too. Please. Can Taoists stop being so imaginitive?! The Dao Bums are getting so confused!

Li Po has beautiful poems...a simple Google search will give you sites with most of them on I have a pen friend that once new a medium (who died last year in his 50s) My friend told me about when he had sick family members, the medium would channel one of the 8 Immortals (when I remember which one, I will edit this post) In trance mode, the medium would ask this immortal to heal the family member. Apparently, before the immortal began work, he had to drink tonnes of Guinness. Wtf?! Well, my friend said it worked so maybe there's something in this drinking thing after all.

Fair enough. I'm a natural daydreamer and create all sorts of weird fantasies in my head. Leave me to it....me, myself and I are very happy here hehe

Ok, so back to the hidden metaphor...the butterfly. And how the poem above appears to talk about the endless cycle of things. Firstly, the butterfly - a symbol of non-death? There is the illusion in its previous state that it was the end, then it formed the butterfly. Perhaps I'm reading too much into it, but as Zhuangzi wakes, he is none the wiser and carries on anyway. So we cycle, constantly. One thing to the next...and the butterfly being a symbol of transmutation. I can see how this could imply an idea of reincarnation though...as if these cycles and transmutations are present in nature, why would after death be any different? And of course, we wouldn't remember anyway if we were reincarnated, if we are "forgetting" (in fact, the more I think about it, how much do I really remember of yesterday? Only the highlights) So maybe Zhuangzi wasn't explicitally talking about reincarnation, as he wouldn't know for sure. But I doubt he would be ruling it out... PS I know in this post I have stolen, in-part, some things said by others earlier on. Just taking it on board, agreeing and expanding on

Possibly, but rather than answering the questions,I actually thought it was more useful to just acknowledge the type of questions he is asking. They are rhetorical and also, he seems to have his answers. I posted more with the intent to imply that he had a good idea about what the Chuang Tzu story was really getting at. Mr Li cannot be in this thread so I thought I would try and participate on his behalf

This latest stint was around five months (around the time of OP, was about three weeks) But I was developed more depressive and aggressive tendencies after month two I'd say. Felt great in the first month...perhaps I was eating way to much meat before though so the time off probably restored some balance.

I don't know if this helps anyone? Chuang Tzu in dream became a butterfly, And the butterfly became Chuang Tzu at waking. Which was the real—the butterfly or the man ? Who can tell the end of the endless changes of things? The water that flows into the depth of the distant sea Returns anon to the shallows of a transparent stream. The man, raising melons outside the green gate of the city, Was once the Prince of the East Hill. So must rank and riches vanish. You know it, still you toil and toil,—what for? by Li Po Are people familiar with the drunken Taoist poet?

You see, I didn't! Don't let me stop you though...could still be good, even as a "cleanse".

Yeah, I know I was arguing with myself out loud...convincing myself.

Unless...forgetfulness. Though, why the feck would ZZ talk about reincarnation? Back to that. I respect Tao sages based on the fact that they make no such bold claims about what is beyond what we can possibly know.

I never thought of it like this before. Bless you MH!

I'm glad we're relatively dogma-free in this thread.

Oh wow. So even a hidden metaphor here. Now I'm thinking....I'll be back. It will hurt if I try to add to my answer right now.

I second this. And no, I wasn't thanking you...I still use my button as a "like" button Looks the same on my phone anyway.

Sounds like a lyric from an R.E.M song. Yes, one thing that struck me was - what about when we wake up and often know we were dreaming? And often we can recall things that happened in the dream. Whether or not Zhuangzi was pondering/doubting or whether he was forgetful of the butterfly, who knows for sure? I think the main message has to be that a dream is another realm, equally as real to waking reality when you are in it. Because at present moment, in the dream state, that's all we have going on!

I remember around three years ago when I was playing around with this. I was sick of getting ill so I somehow managed to convince myself that I would not get ill again. The following year, it worked I also read more about this powerful alchemy in The Kybalion. I wonder why I quit believing...that time was awesome. Well, it's my choice now...time be have an awesome time again!