Rara

...so I am not denying energy. What I deny are the conclusions as they appear to have been made elsewhere from the spiritual side. Feel free to present them here, I don't wish to stop that, but like I said before, it is important that the information is somewhat tangible. Also, back to the significance of the electric field of the heart (from a post before) I do not see it. Yes, it has one, but there is nothing astounding about this. Getting to the bottom of points (aka concrete or consistency) is all that I'm challenging. Your description of the video has interested me though, and I will watch. I just haven't yet because I wasn't enticed first off, no, and I'm always quite busy. But I admit, you've got me curious to watch. I can't comment further until I have. Thanks for persisting with that

But this isn't what I said about science. It is still "pondering" and looking into all sorts of phenomenon. And no, it isn't a sweeping statement. There has been no credible news on the soul, qi or anything, otherwise these "answers" would be globally accepted. They are about as measurable as a God in the sky - and religion in the west is dropping off. Atheism is on the rise due to this wisdom. That's not to dispute God (for this is a very broad term) or consciousness for that matter (which we certainly do have but similarly have trouble seeing) or energy. In fact, I will continue in response to your next post...

We had some good guesses though based on, oh wait, similar lines of thought. Some were playing dot to dot but getting some very strange shapes. Seems to have a mind (metaphorically speaking) of its own. Always lets me know when I'm hungry, and as I've said before somewhere else, if I don't feed it, it will eat me anyway.

3. How do you draw this conclusion "we think with our stomachs" from the previous sentence?

2. Has been tested, fair enough. But this does not explicitally relate to what you were saying before. Unless I'm missing something in that the electric field is something of an energy or soul that you speak of?

1. Not so much a sweeping statement than a condensed, more basic way of explaining the organs' primary functions. I think we all know here that the two organs work together somewhat. But lets look at the soul. I think I explain myself thoroughly in my previous post about what is "measurable" here, and the soul isn't.

Yes, neuroscience but as for the parallels, this is something I did a long long time ago myself. As much as I believed these parallels because they appeared to make sense, there was nothing "concrete" or measurable in which I could go on and class it as the answer, so to speak. The links you provided - fine. I'm not in any disagreement with what neuroscience etc is offering here. It's the linking with Vendanga/yoga that I'm not "comfortable" with and of course, short of learning everything on this side which I'm not prepared to do (and you have already spared me of any further reading of this - I guess you realise it opens up another can of worms in itself!) the debate becomes somewhat dismissed by me. My reasoning is like I said before, exploring such a thing but with qi rather than prana/yoga. I view the ideas behind both to be of a similar school of thought - these are easier to draw parallels from. But there is little measurable here, only a little that science can varify. Therefore dot joining is all well and good but proves useless as any form of answer, although I do appreciate that perhaps your angle is more of an exploration rather than to provide a definite answer. You did already say that "concrete" stuff was "disgusting". Interesting choice of words but if you mean in a sense of saying something is absolute when you and I both know it will never be (which is my point) then I guess we can agree. Although, I wouldn't use the word "disgusting". That said, my use of "concrete", was more in relation to things that are proven, things we cannot argue against. It is extremely important to be clear when talking about yoga, buddhism or anything else from any ancient schools of thought for obvious reasons. The reasons are that despite similarities, they offer way too much in what can be disputed, or looked at from another perspective. Science is like this too. There are countless numbers of experiments that amount to unsatisfactory conclusions and don't prove the hypothesis to be correct. However, one thing we do have is a universal "science" of which is "concrete" (and still developing - neuroscience is an example, we can name thousands) Science that is recognised and accepted globally. In another post, I will highlight a couple of your earlier statements that I wish to challenge.

Exactly, it makes good sense to you. You are stringing your "understanding" of science together with spirituality in some way that might sound like you've got this, but the links are far from concrete. Though I do invite you to share references to this science.

Just focus on your breath...begin counting them and once you can get to 9 or 10 (depends on school of thought...i don't think the number really matters) then stop counting and just feel your breath. Explore it, discover the present moment and what is happening. As thoughts come, acknowledge but understand they are just thoughts. Let them glide past, and continue your focus. Master this first. Otherwise "chi" work will just leave you confused and frustrated. Edit: I was a bit vague when saying "explore" the breath. Just find how it is entering and feel your lungs fill. What is your stomach doing. Is it tense? Can you feel the air in your belly? If not, relax further and breathe into the belly. Keep it up for 15 mins a day if you can

I think that was their point

Not worth concerning yourself with. Deal with this one!

Yes, persistence is everything. You might not get what you want but you will always get what is supposed to be for you.

I'm sorry, but this is just mumbo jumbo.

What is your current understanding of God?

Then there's "Taoism as a religion"...

Yep. I use a lot of "hehe" "lol" etc. I did read somewhere that it indicates insecurity! About the offender/offended, that's interesting, but I feel it is more variable than that. I have something to raise on this but will do so in "Off-Topic" once I get the chance

Sure, I get that...as far as debating goes, we need to be clear what we mean. That said, I feel a lot of the time it's tiring to tag "btw, that was a joke" on the end of everything mildly risque that I say. Who's problem is it if they take offence? Is it the offender or the listener that happens to be a little more uptight?

That was in reference to me self-correcting myself in case my comments are deemed homophobic. The real me is in my head saying "what did you do that for? You don't need to explain yourself of be politically correct. It's not you!"

I do have this feeling of something calling me back, saying "dude, stop faking it" Like my spiritual explorations were, in some way, only able to keep me a certain way for a short while. Maybe it was just a role play to help me fit in with a new group. To allow me to explore ideas. Or as my mum would say, "a phase". My flavour this month..."I know what I am". And I can be a bit beastly. But hey, at least I know this now. It's sorta comforting.

I'm laid in bed having a "sick day". Bizarre how much it affects my personality... Today I can throw a consistent argument together. I must be on the mend. Not that gay people are broken, that is. Dammit! Why can't I stop rambling about homosexuality?!

Precisely. This is why I originally stated that belief and fact are very different things One can believe something is fact even if it is BS. This is usually because that belief brings that person comfort in some respect. Imagine this: Person A (I do this sort of scenario thing a lot) commits a horrible crime like sexual assault. When he is arrested, there is not enough evidence to support claims that it was him (perhaps he was masked, it just sounded like him to the victim...maybe she knew him) The police let him go. His wife, Person B, is distraught, but chooses to stand by her man. She is without the facts and therefore chooses to believe he is innocent. This allows Person B to put all her doubts to one side and live on with person A in some sort of happiness from there on. So yes, some people even believe something to be fact. I am obsessed now with finding sources/evidence for claims...it appears to be the best way to get close to facts. Admittedly though, it is hard to find many.

I know plenty of atheists and "secular meditators"...also not addicted to work/money Perhaps you should create your own sect? Hehe

I cannot grasp what you are saying in the slightest. It's not even a definition. If anything, it's a verb...and unless I'm mistaken, you and I both are, at some point today, breathing. Of course that's a fact, otherwise you are surely agreeing that the opposite is a fact, which is craziness!

I'm totally not gay btw haha. Just in case you wondered.

I don't think I do either...my mind has been in a weird place lately. I'm exhausted and meditation just hasn't happened for a while. So you might find me sexually odd or aggressive or perhaps sarcastic or moody. Take me with a pinch of salt and a balanced me that you're used to will be back after this mad month is out of the way