ChiForce

Maybe you are right...my cultivation and enlightenment level aren't high enough to change forms (as in the skandha of form) outside of my mind???

You can't save the world and to liberate others when your own mind is trapped and deluded. One of the mind consciousness issue to liberate others is that your act has to be selfless and without any intent or motivation for any rewards (karma or merit) or prestige). It is the most laughable when people (no name mentioned) talk about the Mahayana path without doing any cultivation work to liberate oneself...is because that is considered the Hinayana path. LOL. I can only speak of my own self liberation. For others, can't say if I did. Obviously, when your mind is liberated and to achieve certain degree of enlightenment, your chi channels are open. You mind will begin to transform your body. You will begin to see the chi with your third eye. You will begin to hear your chakras vibrating. Initially, you would hear your own breath breathing. When you manage to transform you jing energy into shen energy, you would begin to hear your own chakras vibrations. They get louder during meditation. Now, I have the knowledge to help others to liberate themselves because I know the process myself. Would I be arrogant and ignorant enough to offer my salvation to others? Of course not. We all know that each of us has to walk the path ourselves. Regardless how much you want to save others (the intention could be self serving), others can't be liberated if they don't get it. Oh, after my enlightenment at the age of 18 and while I was in my second college, I encountered a blue eyed monk. His eyes weren't naturally blue but almost as if he was blind. He was dressed in modern clothing. He could see because he was working in the register office and I was registering for my class. Here, he only said one sentence to me, "learn knowledge for myself." It was a Zen moment because I knew why he said that. I felt embarrassed. I looked back at him with a gesture of "I know, I know." He smiled at me a bit and that was it. He didn't offer himself to me because he wanted to save the world. LOL. A blue eyed monk dressed in modern clothing and instructed me with an one liner....I don't normally meet a lot impressive people but he was certainly one of them.

Here is a more in depth description of the pratyekabuddha meaning.. http://www.sgilibrary.org/search_dict.php?id=253 Son, if you have any dharma wisdom at all, you would realize that there is a bridge or a break through point from liberating oneself, to liberating others. Son, I have done my cultivation work already. What have you done? There is no need for me to rush to save the world. At least, I am not deluded enough to think that I can save the world. Maybe you think you could....

Look son, if I need to read the sutras, I would read the sutras. I don't need you to tell me what the sutras are saying.... You know, I can read them on my own.

Forget him, he does not even have a path. He just read a bunch scriptures and regurgitating what he was told and talking about the dharma as if he has even obtained the first stage of samadhi. He sounds like a Catholic priest preaching about God and Jesus Christ but never walk the path himself. He is a sad person. I wish I could filter him out on the message board. I have been reading on Master Nan "To Realize Enlightenment." He mentioned about the pratyeka path towards the end. He only spoke it in a single line, self enlightenment without teachers or guides. I thought that it is a very interesting path. Choice would not have entered into this path because to have choices, the path has to be known. Since the nature of the pratyeka path is pathless and the individual does not know the dharma path. The individual obtains enlightenment solely from the merit of his past lives and a bit of understanding of the dharma wisdom and the law of the interdependent and dependent causation and origination. He does not need to know anything relating to Buddhism. Remember, the path is only possible in the age of without the Buddha. Pratyeka path is not a choice because such a choice is only an illusion.

From my experience, no, is not a choice because the pratyeka path to enlightenment is almost pathless but solely relying on one's merit from one's past lives. What one would need to do in this life time is to ponder the dependent and interdependent origination. Of course, most people often assume we choose a path to cultivate. To some others like myself, we don't choose. There are degrees of enlightenment depending on how many states of samadhi you can achieve. In each of your life time, you experience a bit of enlightenment and clarity. Again, don't assume if you have to accomplish any sort of enlightenment, it has to be the ultimate, full enlightenment (complete liberation of the 5 skandhas). I am not sure if that's even possible other than as described in Buddhist text and surtras. I don't quite understand what you mean by future lives here though. If anything, I am referring to a enlightenment path (pratyeka) which is very closely describing what I went through. Is actually, my past here.

So, what was YOUR enlightenment path??? Here is mine. http://thetaobums.com/topic/27489-new-here-tooand-have-many-questions/ If this isn't the Pratyeka path, I don't know what is... Of course, after to have read 2 major works by Master Nan, a lot of questions have been answered. It is almost like "ah, that was what happened to me back then and up to now."

Do I need to hurt your feeling now? Hahaha...keep reading the entire thread, you are the stubborn one. Look son, if you have nothing worthy to say in my thread, please, stay out. You are obviously wrong on so many levels.

Hahaah..here you go, have fun... http://thetaobums.com/topic/28117-arhats/

Look, here is your problem. We have this discussion earlier but apparently you only think of the Mahayana path is the only path to become the supreme Buddha. However, one has to follow the Hinayana path in order to reach to the Mahayana path. The pratyeka path is similar to the Hinayana path of the arhatship. The person's only desire to become liberated from the world and without wishes to save all other sentient beings. That's why the pratyeka path is only slightly greater than the hinayana path but still lesser than the Mahayana path. If you have problems with this, go search back the original thread. All the arguments are there. No need to waste my time here to argue with you. Yes, you still don't understand what it means by the pratyeka path.

I have no ideas and I certainly don't have that knowledge. However, since most people couldn't approach to the level of cultivation of an arhat, there is little point in pondering how to become the supreme Buddha. That's just fancy wishful thinking....

You are totally missing the point. We are talking about the age when there is no Buddha. When the Dharma path isn't there. Relatively speaking, this can be a reference to a sentient being not knowing ANYTHING about Buddha or Buddhism. Think of someone living in America some 20 years ago. Through his merit from past life, he managed to become enlightened, without guides or teachers!!!

What do you mean not available..... If a being can become enlightened without guides or teachers, the pratyeka path, he needs no permissions or even needs to acknowledge any paths other than pondering the dependent and interdependent causations. That's why this path is very fascinating.

Not everyone is living in a world surrounded by Buddhist temples!!!! Or even seeing other Buddhist monks!!!! I live in America. Buddhism is a new age thing some 20 years ago. People did not even talk about Carl Jung back then.

Payment is acceptable and I think you should ask for payment. I won't over promise them results that I personally haven't accomplished. I fear this would become some sorts of water downed tai chi exercise. Much less with the cultivation of the chi energy.

Also, when you think about enlightenment, think beyond space and time. Enlightenment is usually requiring several life times to achieve. Some may be living in their 2nd or 4th life time. Otherwise, maybe even less. Each life, the individual consciousness experiences a little bit of enlightenment and a little bit of clarity. They all add up from each life time. Not everyone starts from the same level.

Karma causes negative actions. Is the residue of habitual energy coming from the world around you. The first thing you need to do to achieve enlightenment is to become liberated from social conditioning. Yes, we all have the seed to enlightenment. However, not everyone can find the path. Enlightenment and the dharma path are not, shall I say, democratic.

I would suggest everyone to read up Master Nan's "To Realized Enlightenment." He cited plenty of meditation cases from various sutras to explain that your sudden enlightenment is only possible AFTER you have been practicing the vow to follow the dharma path or/and studying the sutras. He even made fun of people thinking that they can become enlightened just by simply looking at a lotus flower blossoming (one of the meditation cases). You are kidding yourself if you think you can become enlightened just because you think you are already enlightened. What is considered enlightenment? To achieve the 4 jhanas and to experience the 8 states of samadhi. And to completely free from the 5 skandhas.

No, that's the later Zen notion of sudden enlightenment. The actuality is that your vow to follow the dharma path has to be strong. You only arrive the notion of sudden enlightenment ONLY you have been putting a lot of effort in your cultivation process AND then you let go.

One needs merit and the efforts in cultivation to receive enlightenment. You can't become enlightened just because you think you are already enlightened.

True in a way but without the effort put into the cultivation practice (study the sutras and contemplate what is emptiness and the dharma wisdom) and to assume you are already awakened, that won't work. That is the same as sitting in meditation for years and not cultivating oneself and expecting to become awakened.

Is not attaining emptiness because we, the universe, is fundamentally empty. You try to to become awakened to the fundamental nature of the universe and your existence AS empty. The fear and loneliness you sensed is the result of afflictions caused by your mind and mental conception. That's not emptiness. Once you have arrived to any sense of emptiness, you would experience samadhi to a certain degree.

Hmm..yeah, and so who are you then???? Have you decided it yet?

If you don't understand, you obviously not aware that your so-called career choice was not made by you but imposed by the world and society expectations. When was the last time you remember your parents and friends telling you to seek spiritual enlightenment and to become liberated, and to become a defender of the Dharma? How have you practiced the dharma and to help other sentient beings to become liberated in your career? If you are in your mid 30s and begin to feel unmotivated about your job, you would know why. Both worlds can only exist in you only if you have seen the Path, usually in isolation and with great sacrifice (because you have to penetrate the skandha of forms or the illusion and suffering in clinging onto forms) , but decided and vowed to follow the Mahayana path, to use your wisdom and merit to help other sentient beings to become liberated. This is called the middle path in Buddhism.

I am speaking from experience since I am a planted tank aquarium hobbyist. There is no choice in involved I am afraid. The primary purpose of the plant is to grow. When the condition is right, it would grow. I would continue to grow unless the conditions aren't ideal. That's why certain species of plants can become invasive. The way I see it, plants would regrow from other parts of the stems usually rather than wasting energy trying to repair damaged leaves. The plants would have different shapes or colors depending on the level of light as well as the amount nutrients in the soil.