opendao
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Everything posted by opendao
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people have innate De, people can become more virtuous by cultivating Dao, and sages can "give" De to other people as well. Some increase can be made by "good deeds" and "virtuous actions", but it works mostly for people with high enough innate De, and such way has its own limits. Sages are rare nowadays, as well as people with high innate De, so the only way is the alchemy practice. Then De becomes a real magic power, and the words of Lao Zi open its meaning. De is more deep then just "good character" or moral. It's a foundation of the character on the energy level. "Charisma" is more close to the ancient understanding. And "grace" in Christianity is a good parallel. In TTC De is a must have quality for the king. Also, it's a basis of real WuWei ("non doing"). No. Dao dictates what good and evil. It's like a physical Law. Society can follow it, but it prefers to invent its own definitions and laws, destroying itself and its people. TTC has a lot about it.
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Postcelestial Shen is related to the consciousness. Precelestial Shen is not a consciousness. Postcelestial qi and consciousness affect each other all the time, but they are separated and not identical. Precelestial Qi, Jing and Shen are of the same nature, but they relate differently to each other at different stages of life (and practice). That's why names are different, but sages speak about one in a proper context.
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That's correct. Real small heaven is not about natural flow of postheaven qi or jing in medical (tcm) du and ren channels. Small heaven circle in Neidan is different: "Once a student of the School produces a "true seed", then it will be not qi but rather the “true water” that will circulate through the Ren and Du Meridians, also the locations of its awareness will be different too." Teacher of Single Yang More here: http://all-dao.com/heavenly-circle.html
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Formally yes, but what is nonaction-wuwei in terms of yuanqi? Before non-action, people have to practice the "action", meaning they need to act somehow to replenish yuan jing, make it full, only then small heavenly circle will start move. This is a big difference between modern meditations focusing on lower abdomen, and the traditional Neidan exercises. When yuan jing is full, students become renxian (human immortal). Obviously, by starring at the belly button nobody could achieve that. From traditional Neidan point of view it looks strange. First we "unblock and clear" by the action of yuan qi, which has to be activated in a special way by actions of the body and will. Then we need to restore yuan jing, again using action. Then we form the lower dantian. Then Small Heavenly Circle starts on it own. Wuwei comes later, when spirit-Shen changes. Right, but except that, Du and Ren vessels have different location in Neidan, so even the trajectory of moving the True Water is different. But in books there is very little about it...
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well, such things usually happen during postheaven work in seated positions, basically that's what people name "meditation" nowadays. Yinqiao is important, but when it's open, the results are much more powerful then just "testicles contract and prostate begins to move". It seems you speak about yinqiao in terms of TCM and qigong, because in Neidan even its location is different, and results of opening it are overwhelming, so nobody cares about "prostate moving" ))) Also, there are some people who are trying to open yinquao on their own, by books and without teacher's control: if they have success in what they do, they will simply die very quickly. Yinqiao is not a toy, if it opens, then students have to know how to deal with all extensive changes in their body. And most of the people who do it, get only changes in their postheaven energy channels and vessels. Traditional Neidan doesn't work with postheaven jing intentionally. It's a mistake there, and many exercises are performed to avoid such mistake. What you describe as "seated meditation" is more close to Northern school method, but many important things are missed, so such "meditation" becomes more a psychotherapy and spontaneous qigong (when postheven moves on its own), and can't get to the stage of replenishing yuan jing, which is the beginning of Neidan. Ancient Chan and original Quanzhen Qiao use dazuo differently, so the results are way different. Liu Dongbin, Zhang Boduan and other big names in Neidan have never advocated any "seated meditation". In southern schools their methods have been preserved completely, it's not the same as Northern school, but for sure it's not about dazuo, seated meditation, wuwei as "relax and do nothing" and other modern allusions on Daoism. Chen Yingning was a good scholar, educated etc, but what's about practical results? I think for any research in Daoism we can rely only on opinions of masters who achieved high stages of Dao cultivation, became xian-immortals (shenxian and higher), or we're doomed to believe in various fantasies and keep illusions that postheaven MCO is the same as Neidan MCO as in this topic.
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These all are Qigong methods, how to use the mind mostly. And there is no real difference between them. "Absorbing sun" is described in any modern book as well as "focusing mind on nowhere"... If we take a more traditional classification, then we can see that such methods are just considered to be useless to attain Dao. For example, "Book of Balance and Harmony", chapter 8 lists all these low, middle and high mind exercises under "sidetrack and auxiliary" methods. And for the highest of such methods it's written that it can "eliminate sickness", so basically it's Qigong/ Yangsheng. Internal Alchemy and Dao cultivation are based on other principles and lead to other goals, but they also can be classified as methods for "people of low, medium and high talents". But it's way different from what is discussed here. Starting with initial stages, students just need to practice regularly. There is nothing really hard to do, visualize or do other hard mind work. Mind has to be settled down, and such requirement is satisfied by the basic preliminary dynamic exercises, which work with Qi in a special manner. No sitting, no meditation, no mind work as described in the initial post. At least, that's how it works in Daoist schools I know or heard about. The Dao is simple, because the methods used are very effective. Relying on mind, attention, breathing etc are not so effective in the beginning, dangerous, lead to deviations, that's why such practices are not used. Relying on mind to stop the mind is similar to stop fire with fire. again, visualization and attention tricks don't lead to immortality or Dao.
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True teacher teaches from heart to heart, not by words. Those who have no destiny will never find such a teacher, so there is no such thing as "turn away". then it's necessary to practice more before teaching others. Any advise to another person, even on a forum, has to come not from somebody's ego. If it's not like that, then it's better not to advise at all. That's why I'm so against different self-proclaimed false schools: because what they teach is just dangerous and destroy people's destiny. Why they are false? Because there is no transmission from heart to heart, so the founders have no De of the past. right, but you agree that their choice have to be safe for them? So it's better to stick to something, that works for all. Any traditional Neidan school has methods for different kind of people. But it's not the teaching adapts, but the teacher has to choose, because the teacher has De to do that. What you suggest is different, you're trying to give people some misty philosophy that adapts to them, because everybody understands it differently. Such thing already exists and its name is "new-age Taoism". Has it anything in common with Dao schools of the past? With Lao Zi? With Huangdi? Obviously no.
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thanks to confirm I'm right about you, quantumdragon
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one more... As far as I recall you were caught by using your own words, with quotes and everything, remember that conversation between us and Laozidao? So everything was fair, and now, after a year, you come and insult me accusing in something I haven't ever done... And you even haven't read the thread. Special for you: all the mess has been started after some enlightened being started to insult me and trolling what I say by means of her imaginary "psychic reading" manipulation technique, with words nobody uses in a good society. I think everybody understood everything, but now you show off and start again. Instead of saying something wise about Sun By Er... I really happy that it did happen, so everybody could say loud what they think. Sincerity is very important ))) Btw how is Xiao Yao Pai, why you've stopped promoting it? And don't be so upset, it's bad for your heart: you can ban me now, even twice, maybe it will release that negativism you've collected by writing things you didn't really understand I hoped you've changed since that, so why you're destroying my last hope in human intelligence? Btw, I have to say thank you, because when the amount of false teaching on this forum is reducing, many people, esp newbies, are happy. Now we know you were involved and haven't banned me when on Tao Bums people could see a dozen competing false schools. I'm serious here, thank you. I hope you don't want to return those times, right?
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maybe it doesn't appear, but it is beneficial. If people are Yin, they need Yang to wake-up. And vice versa. That's how balance can appear in the society. It's Wen. But what kind of balance can be in a society, where evil people say that Yang is Yin and Yin is Yang? So to stop such people is also beneficial. It is Wu. When people's practice improves, it's beneficial for me as well. the reality knows very well: if weak, people decline, unfortunate and die, if strong - they flourish, auspicious and enter the sainthood. Very simple from the energy standpoint.
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if a person follows Dao as prescribed by his/her Teacher, there is no necessity to "work toward letting go of examining and seeking" or worry about "ripples". Same as karma, all that things will be dissolved in one perfect moment, just by doing proper methods. The more we think about how to behave "right", the more we behave "wrong". Because of the ShiShen.
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and last one (I hope) about "astral visits": naive people think that Shen could exit the body, goes through a plumbing tube, and the owner of that shen would be still unaware about it. It is so lame. When Shen exits the body, the impact on the body is SO big, it is so scary, and it has no relation to fantasies of "astral travellers" like Castaneda or Monroe. So don't disgrace yourself, you don't know what it is in the reality, and I really wish you not to experience it in your life. It's dangerous, not pleasant and can lead to a premature death...
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It has no any relation to "scanning", "astral visits" or any other energy interchange between people. I hope you don't understand "examining and seeking" as "psychic reading"? haha, I bet you do... The phrase is about that on a high level, when Superior Virtue comes through the practice, the adept doesn't need to use Shishen, the consciousness mind, which "examines and seeks", to act in the world. That's why its called Wuwei, which I leave without any translation for now. Lower Virtue is not enough for this mechanism to work properly, that's why Shishen "operates without rest", and people can't stop thinking even in sleep.
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so right. Now we see continuous attempts to change from male supremacy to female supremacy. From Daoist point of view, it is the same dis-balance, caused by yin life style throughout last generations. Man becomes too Yin, woman becomes too Yang. Daoist Alchemy is needed to create the balance, but it has to be a Right Method, which gives Yang to man, and Yin to woman.
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maybe, but even you don't follow your own philosophy Obviously, all the time people have to say "yes" or "no", the moment of choice is in every single moment. They can't all the time answer "perhaps". But pseudo taoists "flow with the flow" thinking they are "redirecting the power"... They don't get they are just Yin, and there is no any balance between Yang and Yin in their "everybody is equal" passive attitude. I tried to tell it by explaining the _traditional_ principle of Wen and Wu, but it seems without a practice modern people can't grasp it: because their Yang is so weak, their Ming is so unfortunate... Do you see what choice you do at this moment? Is it Yin, Yang or do you feel their real balance? It's important. The proper sate is in the middle between external activity and internal silence. Who is weak doesn't have it obviously. Neidan is about this balance, that's why it is so important to return Yang and continue the fate. It is one of the real signs on the Way, not some stupid "psychic reading" performed by weak old people...
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sorry, but you obviously have no any idea what you're talking about, that's why it is so logically for you. And don't refer to DDJ: there is nothing like that in Dao De Jing which can lead to such false views.
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LOL, Xuanming has worked long just to say that. I don't talk to manipulators and words joggling people in the real life as with good people, so I don't do it here. You already found all answers to your questions about me, long before I've started to answer. With such pre assumptions and inability to hear anything, and obvious attempts to play games here, I don't think it's worth to discuss with you. You can continue evaluate and overvaluate, but let's be sincere: your opinion has no any support nor in texts, nor in Tradition, nor in reality. Sure I'm "emotionally unstable", "mighty warrior", "loosing energy", "not as experienced" and haven't even started any practice at all. I've heard it hundred times before. But for some reasons people, constantly repeating that for years, still got nothing at all and cannot explain even simple things in Neidan. Strange, ah? And you disregard any scriptures which contradict your qigong experience, dodging all the time to do personal insults and "valuations". Think about it, if you can, before criticising others just in sake to promote something here.
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with you and your company any discussions are over, reasons have been disclosed more then once. Don't start again, then you won't get your feelings hurt. If other real people have any questions about the poems (not about the book), I will answer, if I can help, of course. But basically, to learn Sun Bu Er's legacy, one have to be a woman and be in the lineage of her school. Such people obviously don't need my comments ))) But I would be very fortunate to talk to them. And not only me...
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Thanks. It's interesting, and I really glad you felt the most important things )) But I have to say that the "field of qi" in special places and from teachers is one thing, scanning others by thinking about them (or by analysing what they write) - another. The field of qi is De. The scanning is an attribute of Shishen - cognition. Field of qi cannot be evil by definition. Scanning cannot be dangerous: people do it constantly in the real life, and nobody complains, so Daeluin has his/her own opinion here which is hard to understand from the traditional point of view... I got used to that though )) But obviously all that have no relation to quantumdragon's fantasies about ghosts in her bath tube, and various allusions to yinshen practice, which, as you know, is not used in our School at all. Obviously, she describes just her fantasies. I'm ok with that until such fantasies are not used as a weapon against other people, as it had happen here against Taoist Texts and myself. Girls got some feedback, but I really don't see any reasons to allow such behaviour from anyone, even if gender "is not specified" )) Honestly, all these talks about "energy vampires" and "the forum member sucked my energy" are ridiculous illusions. The real ghosts do their affairs in a very different way :-( It seems people here are lucky not to know it. And it's very good. Speaking about women alchemy, nobody stops anyone here to discuss, but the published excerpt raises a lot of questions, and the company here has no answers to them, so they start their "psychic reading" to protect their world view. It's not new, but strange to accuse me or other men when they disrespect scriptures and wise words of real Teachers, written in such texts, when these words don't fit their world view...
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Old people are like kids, living in a fantasy world. I feel absolutely good, so again it's just your personal false belief, which has no substance, nor arguments to discuss.
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so hshe confirms hshe is a troll and experiments here with definite evil purposes. De? No, just a devil mind and manipulations. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Do we have any moderators on duty or all they can do is to cover trolls and liars in their protected separated topics, where they can advertise freely and continue their evil experiments on forum participants? Rhetoric questions, obviously.
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can you imagine? I can't. Totally insane. And they speak something about De... Even usual ethic seems to be something unreachable for them Sad all that, very sad.
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from the beginning of the thread: "Xuanming who ever you are your time spent here will not be wasted by me." (quantumdragon) I really don't care who you're girls (or guys) but what you wrote is insanely hilarious, and very insightful about the obstacles women have on their Way. Thanks, I need know no more.
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go back to your playground, nobody would believe a word you say, after all your insane fantasies about me, my visit to you (lie), and about our school scanning you (lie). I'd rather believe my intuition then to someone lying and hallucinating. And stop trolling the only topic you'd like to show off in.
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yes, obviously you didn't get what I tend to say by many direct words and indirect hints, and what texts clearly state. But I don't write it for you, I know you won't change your opinion. I write for others.
