opendao

Yes, all these Teachers really know how to use five phases "to return the oil and continue the fate". But you simply don't know Because 5 phases don't transform postnatal to prenatal. It's a mistake that can be made only if you've never practised the real 5 phases techniques to return the yuan jing. Also, there are many sets, based on 5 phases, that don't lead to alchemy transformation, but prepare the body for the first stage or just improve someone's health (using postheaven qi). Qigong people love to confuse later with former, inflating their ego by an illusion they know the truth. The real experience of returning the yuan jing is absolutely different from what qigong people describe. And it's different from fantasies we read in this crazy topic. Attentive reader will find the true description in classic scriptures.

Darling, it seems you completely lost track and don't see the reality any more. What the evidences somebody can provide to prove the words of anonymous whoever that she CANNOT verify someone's lineage throughout her toilet inspired dreams? Obviously, she cannot. Are you freaking serious people have to even read this insane rubbish from a person who has attained nothing but obviously sick entirely? This thread is about the book and female alchemy, so stop trolling your favourite topic and spread lies all around. Transform sexual jing to preheaven, disregard the words of sages, but don't tell us you are the only source of truth and everybody have to buy some fantasy book for 19.95 to be able to discuss with you. So far you showed no more understanding then Taoist Texts, who you criticized so heavily, and quantumdragon praised as crazy. It's all in this thread. And you think somebody can respect you both after all your lies and mistakes? Create another clone and discuss your "yin secrets" in personal messages. It's a public forum and people here have rights to know the truth, and I have my rights to protect my good name and the name of the School against insults without any arguments. Chao, hoping not to discuss anything with you and your multiple clones again. Say hello to Ms Gonets, I hope to look into her eyes one day, to confirm my intuition about her role in all this puppet show. It seems your continuous attempts to advertise lead to an opposite result.

Right. And nobody sane takes such a position of the "owner" even in the modern Daoism or Neidan. Any teacher was a student yesterday, and his/her teacher taught him/her without any secrets. So if you like labels, such teachers are "transmitters" of the knowledge, from heart to heart. People outside of the tradition don't understand that the knowledge itself cannot be expressed in words, so the teacher and text are both necessary for a proper education. 道不可以言传，不可以名纪。历古以来，升仙达道者，不为少矣。 Dao can not be transmitted in spoken words, can not be written down in terms. So just a bunch of fantasies again... But let's discuss the results: where people like Zhong Liquan and his student in the modern world? Why the books are full of techniques that don't lead to Great Dao? Why self-taught "daoists" are confused about the vary basics of Neidan? Obviously, because there is no heart to heart transmission from an enlightened teacher. And more, imagine TT is right, and "The Chinese tradition is scripture-based, as a way to insulate it from the false teachers, who desperately try to squeeze in as unnecessary middlemen." Why then we have a world full of ignorant false teachers as TT him/herself? If scriptures are enough, then why nobody outside the traditional schools can attain Dao in the past? Obviously, something important is missed, and it's a teacher.

Human life is not a game, and for every single dying heart the entire nation has to pay. This is Dao of the country. The history repeats: Compare it with the modern US and do the conclusions, who supports ISIS and why. Stupid game in a nuclear world.

Amen. But so far I haven't heard about any way that can return houtian to xiantian state. The celestial mechanism used in Neidan is different and built on different principles, they work solely in xiantian. Sure Neidan affects houtian, and Qigong can affect xiantian by spending it more or by reducing the leakage, but Qigong, as a postheaven practice, can't restore xiantian jing and that the real Obstacle. I would love to see this understanding in people, because it can save many dozen years of researches and necessity to be lost on side routes...

are you talking about yourself then, "live true teacher"? http://thedaobums.com/topic/38856-riding-the-phoenix-to-penglai/page-6#entry640575 The (wo)man who translates 气穴 as "lair" with "rats and robbers" ))) Maybe with qi-rats and qi-robbers? such a piece of joke

yes, if you take this quantum shit and puppet show thread seriously. 5 lying ladies in one place, speaking crap about Dao, that's really amusing for the Daoist forum. Shame and nothing sacred.

In general you're right about E Fedorov, but the main point is not about "sky falling", but about US related powers constantly playing geopolitic games in Russia. Esp after USSR doom days, many laws were taken by Russian gov under US corp business dictate. It brought many issues in the economics, ecology and politics. Also, continuous attempts to heat the atmosphere in former republics, where US influence is evident, like Ukraine, make possible to support such attitude against the US by many people in Russia. There is a saying: "no smoke without fire". It's about it. Speaking about colony: since Putin has started to rule, the US has lost almost all its positions in Russia. That's why we see all these "sanctions", Georgia 2008, Ukraine 2014 and "war talks". It will be much peaceful in the world when US/UK stops playing their colonial politics. Remember Vietnam, Serbia, Iraq etc: Russians don't want to see US troops on their streets, so the mass media hysteria against US will raise to the limits of the cold war at least. For Russians it's good, for Americans - not. Just my 2 cents to clarify the situation as it is seen by Russians )))

The idea about bamboo is simple: we need to use the material of the same kind to fix another broken material. To replenish wasted yuan jing we need yuan jing. That's what Daeluin & co don't get: "For internal alchemy, it seems to paint a clear picture that by using the five phase operation of the organ qi, we can work towards bridging the gap between the postnatal and the prenatal, and leading the postnatal manifestations back to the prenatal." That's just wrong, and the Teacher of Single Yang explained it in details. As well as many other masters.

nice twist, but no, if you validate others then be ready to be hit back. And you criticize even if you don't mention it. it's just a mere conclusion from what you're saying. If your "careful" words are full of mistakes, then it's not "my projection", but you as you are. Reread your own posts here and admit that the intentions were very different. No comments. Just totally insane.

funny lying lady ))) Tell us how did I look like: tall, handsome, with white beard, right?

Taobums is a really crazy place, and the amount of mental ill people is tremendous, but you Daeluin... Well, now you deserve, and I tell you: you focus on "militant attitude", but basically all you're doing is just to escape the fact you don't know what the real method of alchemy is all about. You had a chance to search and find, but you decided not to use your chance, but keep going in circles from one book to another. Your choice, your path. So usual in the modern world to accuse others and do nothing... The truth you're trying to hide from is very simple: all Qigong exercises you know and practice have no relation to Neidan and to the process of creating the Elixir, based on San Bao: 3 preheaven jewels.

read attentively the section called Lingbao bifa in The Encyclopedia of Taoism, maybe it will give you some hints how both statements are true.

The concept of Xiantian (preheaven) and Houtian (postheaven) is a corner stone of Neidan. I just repeat basics I've learnt from my Teachers, and all such things can be supported by classic texts, starting with Dao De Jing or Yijing. It's not something somebody has to believe, it is something students have to experience in their life and practice. Wu-Liu Pai and Yuxianpai both provide all necessary methods, books, teaching, learning environment (special places) , meeting enlightened Masters and more to achieve the highest possible result for people of different abilities, young and old, men and women. We need extraordinary efforts to prove extraordinary things and bring them to life.

The virtue-De starts with sincerity and ability to keep silence - then you can listen. So stop LYING. Just for the record, in our school "astral travelling" is not used. If you get visitors from your toilet, call a plumber or go to a doctor. But it's not a nice idea to accuse me in any interest to your "yin female organ secrets": I'm more than happy with the knowledge about "psychic disabilities" I already got on this forum. Is it clear or you need a more complete characteristic of your symptoms, lying lady?

yes it's impossible and has no sense to transform any kind of postheaven energy into anything preheaven. The path can be reversed, but it's not about physical reversing. No. Qigong works with Postheaven Qi, Neidan works with Yuan QI / Preheaven / Primordial / Authentic / Original. If people teach Qigong, but explain the postheaven changes using the language of Neidan (dantian, heaven circuit, refining jing into qi etc) then they are in illusions, confused and fool others. I have no idea about your teacher(s) so it's up to you to make any conclusions about what he/she teaches. Yuan Shen, the primal spirit, is weak (Yin) and dormant. By continuous efforts in cleaning one's mind-Xin, it's possible to get changes in yuan shen, but it's impossible to get a real alchemical transformation, where Shen gets Yang and becomes Yangshen. So the status won't really change if you eat something good or say something good. If you do bad things the yin status also won't change and will still be yin. Also, we need to remember about guishen, and how people become "pure Yin" - ghosts. I would be happy. My point was that around us we see very few immortals but a lot of human beings, if the celestial mechanism is so easy as you describe, then most of them would attain Dao automatically, just by eating, saying and acting more or less properly. But the alchemy path needs big efforts and a lot of knowledge (and a teacher, because preheaven is "dark and obscure") yes, I know Drew's ideas after lengthy debates with him. He is an evangelist of the transformation of the postheaven jing back into yuan qi by means of some weird training, that looks very dangerous... I'm still waiting until he gets any results, comparable to first stages of the Daoist alchemy, but as you can now understand, the chances are very very low. So nothing to discuss, basically, read some previous threads, it's all there.

That's all you can bring to prove your claims? A text you don't understand? It's hilarious, as well as your attempts to say that all teachers are false, but you alone are a "live true teacher". It seems you twisted your brain too much, arguing with anybody just in sake of arguing. To make it crystal clear: nor Lu, nor Zhong said what you're cowardly "summarized". Obviously Lu has grasped the teaching, explained in words. Because he had been practised before. That's what "learning scriptures" is about: when an enlightened teacher explains to the student some important details, but these details don't substitute the practice, they just provide some hints, to change the student's heart-mind, point him in a right direction and so on. So Zhong is saying that to answer further questions like that, he wrote a book. Summary )): it's impossible to learn Neidan without a realized Teacher, and Taoist Texts shows constantly a good example what happens if this rule is skipped.

yes, a good one, and it also confirms that in Longmen masters know that real Dan is about preheaven jing, not about sexual jing.

You don't need to differentiate the experience to practice. All you need is to follow the method, as explained by your teacher. Xiantian-Houtian is an important concept, it's possible to get the initial understanding by reading scriptures, but by doing usual Qigong exercises you won't be able to grasp Xiantian.

no, it's not unique. All traditional Neidan schools have it. I'm speaking about yuan jing of course. Sexual jing, postheaven jing, is not used in Longmen as well. sure. But they know as well that such Jing has to be Xiantian (preheaven). That's all Qigong that has no relation to Neidan of any traditional school. no, it doesn't, such things affect xin-mind only. no, such way nor spirituality, nor immortality cannot be achieved, or all people would become immortals through the natural "postnatal transformation". Everything is good with the "spirit of Ma Dan Yang", real one and not some fantasy one, as well as with the results people get in Yuxianpai school. So better focus on yourself and ask yourself why you don't understand basic things I'm talking about.

yes, and yuan jing = preheaven jing And postnatal cannot be converted to anything primordial, so I see no parallels with what we learn and teach. I understand your sarcasm, but by 'we' I meant instructors in our school, some of them are women. So, believe you or not, but instructors know what they teach, because they see that "successful practitioners" in their female students. Without it there is no sense to claim such things, you're right.

Yes, I teach Daogong (Neigong) and Yu Xian Pai. Speaking about women alchemy as we know it and practice, we have quite a lot of women in the school, and also we received the complete method of Wu-Liu Pai: the beginning is the same as for men, the real difference comes later, and the general process doesn't really follow the way written in Gonet's book, especially where she speaks about "sexual energy", Eros etc: postheaven jing is not what is used in Neidan.

the Patriarchs of Yu Xian Pai and Wu-Liu Pai schools, and their indoor Western students. There is a big school in Russia, Daode Center (www.daode.ru), where it's possible to learn genuine teachings of these schools. So I've been learning there for a long time, and every year it becomes more and more interesting. Based on that I'm very sceptical about people here who has never even seen a real Teacher: they don't know what they missed

Just curious who are they?

the tradition explains clearly how Lao Zi and Buddha have attained the Great Dao, you can read it even in the Secret of Golden Flower, I recall it's one of the books you learnt from. It has no sense to compare you or me with them, trying to repeat their ways (if we could we wouldn't discuss it here). The world has changed since that time, people are different as well. Wenshi has started the tradition of Dao scriptures, obviously the teaching has worked before him, but sages were developing the teaching according to people. So I think it has more sense to listen to teachers who has attained Dao recently.