opendao

"Daode Center" provides a new possibility to learn traditional yangsheng / qigong exercises as a part of Internal Alchemy school. Groups are small, everybody gets personal attention and detailed explanations. There is also a forum for general questions and discussions. New groups will start soon. More information is here: http://thedaobums.com/topic/37947-online-training-in-internal-alchemy/

in some schools celibacy is not needed at all, at any stage.

Daode Center has recently started on-line classes in English. We decided to begin with Daogong, preliminary exercises from the traditional Qigong (Yangsheng) legacy. Daogong helps to obtain self control, cheerfulness and ability to work with the energy-Qi inside and outside of the body. Usually it takes about 3 months to learn, then students continue by the first level of Internal Alchemy as taught in Yu Xian Pai school. Before we've used on-line video a lot, but the actual knowledge transmission has been done in person. Now we work with people we've never seen before. So far the results are really good, and some people even could start the first level of Yu Xian Pai's Internal Alchemy. You can read their opinions on our forum: http://forum.daode.ru/f1461/new-online-students-32179/?langid=1 The classes are being held once a week on weekends. If you are interested in joining the group please contact me by PM or send an email to [email protected].

for those who doesn't want to read unmoderated comments by random ill-mannered people, you can always ask questions or express your ideas here: http://forum.daode.ru/f1461/?langid=1#Content

Which misinterpretations? The only misinterpretation I see here is Innerqigong's one, but it is so hilarious and stinky at the same time so I won't participate. If somebody wants to "flex anus" - it's their misfortune only. If somebody has never practised and don't get what lower dantian means, I cannot help. If people don't see the difference between Taoist Yoga and Wang Mu's work, they need to focus on practice and slowly research, without jumping to somebody's else opinion.

Oh, that's basically what you both usually doing. No money? Sad... Taoist Texts, I told you many times before, that if you know nothing about the tradition, it's better to keep calm and focus on research. Your understanding of Daoism in general and Dao De Jing in particular is very low. So instead of barking on us with no single argument or evidence being providing, focus on yourself and your own flaws. Clear?

it's not an "event", it's a thread about online practices in our school. Btw, even events have never been a problem: http://thedaobums.com/topic/37345-stillness-movement-nei-gong-workshop-6-8-december-2014/ Any way, in events we will post about the upcoming seminar for sure. p.s. dawei, "flexing anus" and "cheeky" slang suddenly became a standard of the new TDB? Kinda disgusting...

Yes, there is a lack of information, so we're preparing more detailed description. Shortly speaking, step 1 is Daogong, which is a set of preliminary exercises. After a few months, students continue with the first big step of Yu Xian Pai Internal Alchemy, which starts with a special practices for internal organs (zhang & fu). Plus we're planning workshops in various locations, there it will be possible to get some additional exercises, including some from Wu-Liu Pai school.

Thanks Nathan for your interesting post. I know it's hard to keep inside, when something starts changing your life, and these changes are so evident and uncommon. And this where the border between traditional teaching and modern inventions is: ancient knowledge makes life better without any questions. Other people can read it even "between lines" of your text. And the body accepts such practices, and wants to practice more and more. While modern so-called "healing systems" always leave a feeling that it's all in vain or not in a right direction. I really want to thank one more time all the participants. Again, it's open to everybody, and not so hard as before, and it's a real chance to start practice the traditional methods, without "guessing", "inventing" or taking risks to get a very widespread "qigong sickness". We're preparing some workshops, and are going to start another group soon.

Ho-ho, circus is back again. Now new victim, Wang Mu. Innersound will reveal all truth about Zhang Boduang's method how to "retract anus and unflex a diarrhea mouth". And sure, because he knows nothing about Zhang Boduang's school, he will insist again on the benefits of spermatoreya. And boy, I've replied to your accuses about Taoist Yoga a long time ago. I have no time to find where it is, but obviously you understand NOTHING. If somebody wants, they can continue to discuss on _your_ level, with all "kungfu movies", "erecting penises" and other "flexing anus" crap, but this shit is so far away from Dao, so I can only laugh from a side. You're not the first, not the last, who has "qigong sickness" in all its beauty. To avoid confusions: I don't "promote" Wang Mu. This book has its own flaws and doesn't reflect the real teaching of Zhang Boduang. I know it for sure because of the direct contacts my teacher made with this school practitioners, living today. But Wang Mu can help __normal__ people to understand what Neidan is.

Thanks. I asked because with wuwei idea in mind, in my opinion, it will be very hard to attain the results in such a practice. This is a case where ideas, concepts and words are really important. The main issue is where to be active and where to follow the changes... Right. And in Quanzhen Dao many concepts are "loose", its texts and instructions are poetry more then technical descriptions. I love it though.

Thank you for such an impressive research, good example of how to work with information... I can only add that such miracles as body-of-light don't happen in big cities and crowded places. There are reasons for Neidan practitioners to go to mountains and special places.

Light emits out of the body on Shen Xian level as a result of some high level practices, which have no relation to seeing the light inside of our own body. The light inside is used in the beginning in some sects, and such method exist in many other traditions, not only Dao.

This is possible in Quanzhen Dao. a bit simplistic, but I can imagine what they refer to... Did they really used wuwei term in that context or it's your understanding? because it's a Ming method in its core, those who know are rare and prefer not to talk yes, because for people without all that, other practices are also needed. Funny thing, but these other practices are also referred as "Xing and Ming together" in some Quanzhen Dao lineages... That's why I think it's useless to discuss "Ming first, Xing first" without mentioning which school we're talking about.

Why Xing Gong is "frightening and most people avoid entering it"? What are you speaking about? Dazuo? Million are sitting with no fear This way is much slower then ancient way with Ming Gong first, because it's hard to make the breakthrough you write about... But it is safer, you're right here. From another side, Xing Gong first without Ming gong can lead to Yin Shen cultivation very easily... Then Ming becomes an obstacle, and people start to think how to stop its influence. Many monks has described that in details... But it's not a way to Yang Shen, it's not a correct Xing Gong. I think it's important to understand it somehow before making any decisions about practice. That's why 性命雙修, dual cultivation of Xing and Ming, is needed from the beginning of the practice. Everything else is just an attempt to "fly with one wing".

Ming is like fuel. It can be used for good or not, but without fuel it's hard to overcome profane. That's why ancient saying is: "cultivating Xing without cultivating Ming is a main mistake in practice". Some teachers ignore Ming because they know nothing about it, but some are afraid of it...

dream yoga, OBE, lucid dreaming etc are not practised at all. What you describe as yoga nidra has some parallels, but in Neidan the goal is to AVOID lucid dreaming and astral projection. And immortals don't sleep at all.

Shanlung is right, no basic requirements, and the video is even worse then pictures. If you find his syllabus "advanced", then... try to take a look at any authentic syllabus to compare, I bet you will find a lot of interesting. and he is too busy now. preparing for Tummo demonstration: http://neigongforum.com/threads/dzogchen-is-clear-light-in-every-being-or-has-it-to-be-created.379/page-4#post-4338

capacity of shen

Some people misunderstood classic texts and start to build their own systems, based on false assumptions. It leads to a very important issue, discussed many times in the Daoist books: Neidan (Inner Alchemy) vs Qigong (or similar practices with many different names). The main difference between these two is that they work with absolutely different substances. Neidan works with Yuan (Primordial) Jing, Qi and Shen Qigong works with Post-Heaven Jing, Qi and Shen. Qigong methods are well known: standing and sitting meditation, dynamic exercises, Dao Yin, various work with imagination. There are many books and video about it. Neidan methods are kept in secret. It creates a false illusion that it's possible to use Qigong-like exercises to get the results, described in Neidan books. For example, let's discuss the first stage, Building the Foundation. At this stage in Neidan, in spite of the school, students restore Yuan Jing, using special, Xian Tian (Pre-Heaven) based methods. To understand that, you need to be accepted as an indoor student in any orthodox school, that preserved methods to restore Jing. Let's see now how Qigong practioners understand the Neidan texts: Any Neidan practioner can understand, based on the experience, that Zhang Sanfeng couldn't mean here that somebody needs to use "regulate and harmonize the breath" as the method. Because there are explicit warnings against that. And we see that nowhere in the text Zhang Sanfeng writes about HOW, and using what methods, somebody is supposed to regulate the breath. From the practice we know that Neidan methods regulate the breath as a post result. And that the key to understand this part. This is used as a prove that Building the Foundation phase has Qigong-like method, described as "Preserving the heart-mind". Again, knowing what this stage is about, by experiencing it directly, we are able to understand that "preserving the heart mind" is a result of the stage, but not a practice. Conclusion: there are no Qigong methods in Neidan, so nobody can fool other people and teach Qigong methods using Neidan terminology. It's easy to be confused by classic texts, that is why it was said: "Impossible to find a teacher without understanding the books; Impossible to understand the books without a teacher".

1) what John Chang displays has no relation to Neidan. It's Neigong. I doubt though you've seen John Chang, so again it's kind of shallow (your knowledge). 2) your knowledge about my teacher is not complete, but I doubt he has any interest to prove you anything...

So this pseudo-master accuses me in lying. For those with open eyes they can read that thread and take their own decision who is lying. http://thetaobums.com/topic/35872-neidan-refilling-yuanjingqi-building-the-foundation/page-17 But I will comment main 3 points pseudo-master cry on every corner. Innersoundqigong: let's see what I wrote: Obviously I argue with our pseudo-master's thesis that "drain is physical", and that's what he had to provide arguments against (if he has any). But he decided to twist instead: So man decided to change the lane, and he argues with something I haven't even touched. I spoke about what happening in a person who doesn't practice, and such person obviously looses the energy (or it has no sense to practice anything). But the quote above speaks about what to practice to prevent the "drain", and it has to be done when "penis is erect". If we don't do it, the energy is obviously lost. So we see that pseudo-master can't read and has problems with logic. Also we see that even phrase is full, it doesn't help, the sense is still the same (that's why I quoted only a part - I don't like long posts). Another example: Innersoundqigong: Again lack of any logic. If the energy changes to the fluid (so energy becomes fluid), then when fluid is lost then the energy is lost as well. You can put the phrase in full, in Chinese and you will get the same meaning. About farting, dear readers, you can discuss it with our pseudo-master. He thinks that spirit comes out of the anus. I don't want even touch this stinky crap. He loves the book, maybe it satisfies his taste ;-( So even with the full phrases, even if you bring them in Chinese, pseudo-master can close his mouth that I'm lying. My point was that the drain is not physical, so all his long posts about celibacy have no big value, because anyway the energy is lost (in Neidan it's like 2+2 in math - obvious even for newbies). Who has eyes can see it. Others can try to celibate, believe to Innersoundqigong with all his "logic" (U of MN? I had a better impression about US's high education), and see it in 20-30 years. That's all pseudo-masters can give you - NOTHING. Think using your own head, read with your own eyes the texts of respected schools and teachers with a long and proven history of high level results.

If you could make an effort and think 5 minutes about my "sententious words" you wouldn't ask such questions... You know nothing about the differences between various daoist and buddhist methods collected in Wu-Liu Pai, you know nothing about the foundation that connect all these methods, you know nothing about Wu Chongxu, what he has achieved BEFORE he created a new school. But you express your doubts in a disrespectful manner and think somebody will explain you anything? All the answers on such questions people can easily get on their own, if they make a small effort and start to read what is written and not what they want to see. If they cannot (as in your case) then nobody will proof them anything. We're not at the market and not in the court...

Neidan starts with a logic and ethic. With big attention to details. With responsibility for own words and actions. With a respect to the tradition. With an accurate work to systematize as many facts as possible. With a life long commitment to practice. With a reject to false views and popular mistakes. With a strong will to stop own "interpretations" and hear what teachers say. It's called "an ability to learn". Tao becomes a Secret when imagination, illusions, and stereotypes control somebody's life. Tao disappears when people with evil hearts try to find it. Then like children they start to cry or scream: "bad taoists, give us a candy". Or "immortal doesn't exist because I received no candy this year". It's called "cannot learn yet, blind and deaf". Everybody can see who is who. Look in the mirror. Read your own posts. The secret of YOUR success or failure is there. Not on forums or somewhere else, not in somebody's actions or words. You deserve what you are. "Tao haven't gone from people, but people have gone from Tao".

yes, and that's where the border between qigong and neidan is: neidan uses the reversal "movement", and the way goes against "normal" yin and yang directions. Qigong (as a broad term for all postheaven practices) uses the natural "movement" to achieve its goals. In the modern world qigong very often doesn't work as it is supposed to do. The main reason is the attempts to map neidan model to postheaven practices. The traditional qigong exercises we practice in our school, they are necessary to restore postheaven mechanism, so it doesn't create problems when neidan practice starts. "Clean heart" is the good short descriptions of this "zero step", but it involves much more then "moral aspects" or "calmness". All these techniques are not secret at all, but many people disregard details, learn by books and are lazy to practice, so they cannot get even to this level. One of the students in our school told me that I have to highlight the following: traditional qigong, yangsheng exercises are GOOD and have their own important role in preparing to Neidan. But none of the qigong exercises can lead to the results described in Neidan books. To understand that, you need to realize Xiantian and Houtian difference. It needs time and efforts, but it is the only way I know.