opendao

yes, it's very common and happens very often (even with people who practice nothing). Teachers are dry about it because they value only results, not experiences.

haha, and all versions, all other texts from xubian, associated with this school. Plus all Buddhist sutras mentioned in GF. Plus all comments... Well, this can be called a Research then.

I think the only position described in TY is a full lotus pose and a bit about lying down...

Suwen is not an alchemical text, so probably this rule cannot be applied here?

same "method" as in TY book. Same symptoms. Again, "clean heart" is not even on the horizon. But it's just a beginning. And they think they understand something, claim teachers are not necessary any more, we live in times with no secrets? So lame. Time will fix it, anyway.

no, it's related but not the same. Do you know who did the Huangdineijing translation? There are phrases like: 歧伯曰：此其天壽過度，氣脈常通，而腎氣有餘也。此雖有子，男不過盡八八，女不過盡七七，而天地之精氣皆竭矣。In the translation we see pre-heaven and post-heaven, but in the source there is nothing about it, only 腎氣 and 天地之精氣... Anyway, xiantian 腎氣 is the key to Ming understanding.

yes, it's obviously much better to get text explanations AFTER we get practical results. Then it sounds in full, all riddles become clear and it's a fantastic experience. But sometimes texts are all we have, and it's important to know how to "listen" to them. Same as CDs... Good analogy if I got it right :-)

it would be interesting to read

that's an important point, right I haven't heard such term in Neidan context.

could you please quote something about TCM view on Ming?

yep, you got everything right, Great Master Who Saw The Light :-\ You won't get any answers from me, same way as I finished any discussions with ZOOM or Innersoundqigong. You already know everything. To go in circles is not what I have time and wish to do. One time is more then enough, in my humblest opinion. I think for the rest of us it would be better to return to the topic and stop reacting on all attempts to derail it.

well put, but you see, it has no sense: they will never get such simple things. The main secret is inside of them, but they accuse people outside in their inability....

come to any teacher and learn. Or read more. All hints were given hundred of times by different people. yes, there are a lot of sayings like that, some of them describe the source, some - the result, some - the way to the result. Taoist Text doesn't believe in daoist texts, so he has troubles :-\ up to you. Then don't complain you understand nothing. Teacher doesn't come to students, students come to a teacher. If you don't care about past, your knowledge won't have any roots. You show disrespect to the tradition, naturally you get nothing.

did you read my post? did I tell that it's the only source material needed for everyone? We teach people without necessity to learn Chinese, but any research of the texts cannot be done without a proper translation. so what do you suggest? Publish "everything" in plain English in spite of the will of the Daoist teachers (and break the possibility to learn anything new from them)? Visit every village and teach everybody for free? Maybe pay people to force them to learn qigong? So do it, show us an example. Where I can learn about your results? How many schools you've opened, how many students, how many books? I do. Look at my nickname and figure out that's everything is ready for the masses, but the "majority" is too lazy to open their eyes and do even minimal efforts. tone down, ok? I don't owe you anything, and the only reason I reply to your post is that it's very common, so maybe some people will find my words useful to plan their life.

The speech is not about quality, but about "paying attention" to the source versions in Chinese. ZOOM didn't do that and made mistakes, so LaoziDao correctly mentioned that. Obviously people don't pay attention to details, so basically your sarcasm about quality has no point here. There are many translations made by scholars, and they show nothing but errors in understanding basic principles of Daoism. So the practice with a teacher is the must, knowledge of Wenyan and the explanations made by a teacher come second. Academic background is good to have, no questions here, but not necessary to learn and practice.

Just one more little mistake, ZOOM thinks it's all right :-\ no excuses, but he edited his post. Kindergarten.... pure unity is wuji, any creation is a destruction (or actualisation) of unity... I've found nothing so far to prove that 太乙 creates anything and it's the main difference with 太一. yep, split up, not unity and not "creativity". Moreover it's a yin process (and 乙 points to yin, interesting), while Qian is yang... Nevermind, I think Taiyi in Golden Flower can be translated directly, without relying on any deities. or vice versa... Btw, 太乙 is still Taiyi, not Taizhe...

yes, hard topic. But it seems it's very far from "creative" as ZOOM assumed based on English translation

Just for the record, LaoziDao's teacher has no relation to Wang Liping...

no probs. Btw, I've seen your posts about Taiyi, maybe you have some thoughts about the title of the book being discussed here (Golden Flower)?

such opinion cannot be supported nor by Yijing, nor by Neidan classics. "Preheaven" is not just a word, it's also (or firstly) an order of trigrams, and trigrams are yin or yang... It looks like you mix wuji, where there is no differentiation, and xiantian. Same about True Ying and True Yang. These are names in Neidan for very exact things. They are not the same as yin and yang in TCM.

yellow and "earth" have special meaning in Neidan, related to Ming gong.

right, and it' just a beginning of the list. I've explained some mistakes ZOOM made just to show that Neidan is VERY complex. It is not something somebody can learn as a hobby, or quickly create an own system. It needs a lot of commitment, a lot of efforts and a lot of ATTENTION to details. Lack of that has lead to the waterdown process, that affected and Neidan, and Qigong. So today it's hard to find a working version of both.

It's obviously for anyone he hasn't achieved any immortality. So there is nothing to explain to exalted adepts who speak about dogma and twists, but dodging as soon as they are pointed to obvious factual mistakes in their so called "interpretations". What's about the first phrase? Epic fail? Maybe you found proofs that trigram Qian is Dao? Maybe you found proofs that trigram Qian is Taiyi? Maybe you found proofs that Taiyi is "creative"? Btw, which Taiyi, there are many of them :-))) About Po and shishen I see you're stubborn, so I don't even ask. Keep us informed how the process is going. Merging "yuanshen with shishen to return to ling". I'm very interested to know and destroy my "dogma". I got that by texts you can't prove it, but maybe some practical results will change the picture...

there are sign before passing to heavens... Even if the appearance is not young, it's possible to see who is who. let's take a look: "As you know from my recent message, my precious teacher Dzogchen Lama Karma Rinpoche passed away on the 11th of November, 2013. Yesterday I received extraordinary news from my Dharma friends in the holy Dzogchen area of Tibet that the sacred body of my kind teacher Lama Karma has obviously and dramatically shrunk in size. Lama Karma’s body was about 175cm (approx. 5’9”) tall, but two weeks after he passed away, his seated body has now shrunk to about 20cm (approx. 8”), which means his body, including his skeleton, shrank nearly 80%. According to Dzogchen tantra, this kind of miraculous display shows he has attained the Small Rainbow Body, which is a sign that he has attained the supreme accomplishment of Buddha in this very life. " well, that's what you mean by Rainbow Body? Then no, it has no relation to Celestial Immortality in Daoism. This description has more resemblance: "The first is the Great Rainbow Body, which means directly transforming the present body into a luminous Rainbow Body, just like Buddha Shakyamuni in India, Padmasambhava in Nepal, Shri Singha in India, Vimalamitra in China, Yeshe Tsogyal and Chetsun Senge Wangshuk in Tibet, and so on. Those who attain the Great Rainbow Body eternally retain their present life’s body appearance until all beings become Buddha." But we see only legendary names, not names associated with the modern Buddhism / Dzogchen. So just rumors...

no, you didn't explore the Chinese text at least. And you haven't met a teacher from the lineage where the text is canonical and used to achieve practical result. So it's too early to be so proud of yourself. man, before writing something on forums, I kept silence for a long time, and checked practically everything I could, not only through texts. My teacher did that as well. His teacher. And so on. This is the only way to get rid of doubts. After that people see in texts a bit more then unaware readers of bad English translations made by people who has never practised anything. So I know my dogma works, but what you write - doesn't. damn, do you see the difference between "describing" and "is"? Po has relations to shishen, but Po IS NOT shishen, as you claimed before. Shishen is a FUNCTION of Po. It's a small "twist" as you name it, but it breaks the picture and make you think that GF "contradicts" to the "dogma". I think anybody who has finished elementary school can distinguish parts of the text where Fire is used in different contexts. So instead of looking for my "twists", you can better read something about Water/Fire pair, houhou, fire of the heart etc. read above :-) see below :-) see below :-) See below your real level of knowledge. are you serious? There is no word Jing in that phrase! 祖师曰：自然曰道，道无名相，一性而已，一元神而已。 I think we can nullify your "evidences" after that or you will insist you've "studied very intensely and openly the source text of The Secret Of The Golden Flower "? But your words are not nice, so it will be your fate now. Join Innersoundqigong's club. I have no respect either to people who don't check things they sell to public. same crap as above