opendao

Usually I read TaoBums because of curiosity: what's happening in western Daoism, maybe new good people come up and so on... Usually it's all the same: fake dantians, microcosmic orbits and arrogant mediocrity... Now it's popular to pretend here to talk to Immortals, visit Lao Zi and other funny "experiences"... Why there is no way to believe in all such words? Very simple: those who learn from true Immortals, know the Tradition and can demonstrate the results, described in the Tradition as "achieving Immortality" or "achieving Dao". continue here: https://medium.com/@northerndao/learning-from-immortals-710fb3302ef5

Yurik, as usually you understood nothing. Teacher is always needed, while the book can help to be sure in the correctness of the practice.

Arhont (aka Taoist Texts and other names) tells on every corner that teachers are not needed, schools are not needed, and one can learn everything from texts. To support such position, he quotes the part from Liu Huayang quoted above. However, what a surprise, Liu Huayang wrote this: 夫时者，即吾身中慧命自动时也。古德谓之活子时，其生之机，形如烈火，壮似焰风，非师传授意，息莫能制伏。 which clearly says about the necessity of the teacher for a specific practice. It means that those who cultivate by books, inventing absurd ideas, slandering traditional schools and fool those who are not well versed in the texts - they just cannot read carefully simple phrases.

Effilang, your really lengthy posts cannot be compared to very laconic books of real Teachers... People can watch side by side your videos and numerous spontaneous qigong videos on youtube and ask, if they see any difference. Random quote, but shows very clearly the result of neglecting texts and traditional practice. Yangshen is not a subtle body, and it breaks apart all the long philosophy and argumentation.

for those who are not familiar with the chinese internet, qq groups can be open by anybody, and can teach anything. Taking water from a muddy source can lead to a severe poisoning... The response by Dmitry Artemyev, indoor student of the Teacher of Single Yang (Patriarch of Wu-Liu Pai School), my Teacher and the founder of the Daode Centre, officially and legally teaching Wu-Liu Pai methods: Madame, you even didn't understand what this paragraph is talking about, and you're trying to criticize Liu Huayang without understanding Chinese texts. Where in this phrases it says that Middle Dantien is based on Ren and Du? ))) You even do not distinguish, that in this chapter the words of Liu Huayang come first, and then an explaining comment. And you drop everything together in one heap.

I know the expression. Try to apply some efforts to understand that it barely can be applied here.

Again? You didn't answered on previous lies and demonstrated obvious lack of understanding about the school's methods and texts.

So far you gave no chance because you left many hard questions unanswered. Many people pointed to various flaws in your teaching, so before jumping next, try to explain. At least to yourself.

this one I couldn't find any answers: Well, since you're happy to answer questions, please ask your Chinese-speaking fellow disciples what the name of the document in Baiyunguan we should be looking for is called (http://www.thedaobums.com/topic/42456-xiao-yao-pai-xiantian-dao-yin-shu-official-thread/page-10#entry719759) And a panic mode (with a lot of personal insults by the way, but I got used) about simple lineage and texts questions to other people because you felt "not comfortable"... It's alright, the reasons are clear, just don't tell that I "make stuff up"... At least one my message was deleted, as far as I recall the content was: "recalibration of the body system of depolarization" - really good definition for spontaneous qigong. Sure it's very "destructive and venomous post"... Your story with Flowing Hands also not as nice, but that's your business and you were pointed by other people on that... I really don't care about you, your system and all these questions - you gave people enough information to take own decisions - so I put all this together just to avoid any future misunderstanding because of lack of communications... We all have no time to express fully what we think, and for people out of context it's hard to understand the core... I really think that giving god mode in threads is a bad idea. I won't use it, it hides the truth not only from readers, but from the owner as well. We all need to be able to answer non-comfortable questions, even if there is no one who see it.

another perfect example I won't collect all from Awaken, but I think the idea is clear. People lie and insult, and nobody really cares until somebody replies back... Pointy fingers, point to yourself. No lies about the alchemy, no facts you don't like. I think it would be fair, but obviously there are a lot of people who are not agreed and will start again.

this is really an example of no insulting policy at taobums and freaking respect to the Taoist tradition. 3 pointy fingers, where are you?

It's good you recognised yourself. I thought however you love old music... Just 'cause you feel it Doesn't mean it's there (Someone on your shoulder Someone on your shoulder) There there! Insults? Which insults? Sure you insulted no one and told only truth and nothing but the truth... Good joke, Arhont.

3 more lying confused people with pointy fingers? Well, people here don't deserve such irrespective things.

Why so green and lonely? Lonely, lonely?

may be one is not an anonymous good guy but just a russian forum troll Arhont Plutaev... OR. May be the only reason one cannot shut his evil mouth is not because alchemy teachers ask money for the teaching, but just because he was rejected as his character is evil as the darkest hell... OR. May be it's not he who mistranslated bunch of texts just to attract few poor students who ran away few years later... May be we can believe it's not true and there are no more maybe... But it's impossible, n'est pas?

very true.

You don't know the alchemy, you don't practice, so you have no proofs.

pls tell us the size of qianfengpai and wu-lu pai. You love numbers and pretend to know everything. Then we'll both laugh on "competition". Liao haven't received full transmission, so modern ideas that Zhao inherited fully from Wu-Liu Pai have no support, however they quoted WLP books and used ideas from the texts, so Walker is right in his irony.

effilang, when in your school at least one student becomes a Xian with Yangshen abilities, we will continue this very respectful conversation. So far it has no sense, because you even don't know what I'm talking about... You don't read texts, don't learn in any alchemy school, so how you can know, really? Texts are important because they were written by people who achieved that goals. Some of those people can be met. Some of them teach. How to search, I told. I said physical Immortality and miracles of Yangshen are possible and anybody can obtain such proofs, and such results for themselves. I got such proofs for myself and shared my own experience a bit. And it's much further then to just read texts, you're inattentive here or biased intentionally... You cannot imagine that people can already have own direct experiences with various kind of spirits: own Shen, Yangshen, Yinshen of other persons, demons-Mo, Xian and so on. If people have never even heard about something like this before then your school can probably be surprising. But for those who is looking for Yangshen... all you can offer is a lengthy post that old books are crap because they don't mention your school approach. Which says enough on its own. edit: fixed the name, it was really unintentional

you are inattentive. I said clearly what and how to check, and it has no relation " getting in contact with Xians into spiritual form". And I insist that all subjective experiences, visions, encounters with Buddhas - just blind beliefs and hallucinations if there are no alchemy results. Heavenly mandate cannot be checked by a regular person. So it's a religious belief. Texts, material evidences, some alchemy results of other people - that's possible to check by a regular person. This is the difference you don't want to grasp. Alchemy is not for believers and gossips collectors. sick logic. Not all qigoners do that. But they are all dead when it's time to die. If you don't know how real Hevenly circle extends life, how you can know how qigoners do their life shorter? Then listen those who know and desperately try to understand why, showing that you have no idea about Neidan's practice.

"Heaven mandate" is exactly a sign, that such school is just a religion. It's a blind belief nobody can prove or disapprove. Real Tradition doesn't require you to believe in anything. Alchemy schools are not religious by their nature. All facts about lineages can be proven. It creates trust. What's funny in this thread, is that Awaken and her friends try to say that schools are no needed, but right away she is starting a new awaken-pai. Obviously schools are needed. Face the facts ))

I've heard rumours here about fake Wu-Liu Pai teachers, but seen only one in the chinese internet. So the problem is not big, considering real size of the school. However I'd like to beware all sincere seekers about such scammers, and remind that it's in your interests to check every single fact multiple times.

I'd say more strict: if someone's way has no proves in obtaining Immortality, and this result was not repeated by many people you know, then there is no possibility to claim that such way is right. But if there is no Xian last hundred years, then it's possible to say that the school is false to obtain alchemy results. By separating truth from false this way, we won't fall into a "trap of authenticity": when some schools have a good lineage, texts with results descriptions, everything looks fine, but no results for thousands years. It means that such school is dead, something important was lost.

right. It's described in numerous books everybody can find on chinese markets. But there are a lot of difficulties in this method. Also women practice is different. But Awaken thinks she is special and proud she found the true way. What a joke really.

covering crime is another crime. I saved the thread to local files. All the false accusations presented here, all the absurd theories and mistakes will stay with Awaken (or those who hide behind this name) the entire life and will be publicly available, here or in other places. People have to know the real face of self-proclaimed gurus. If somebody doesn't want to hear facts, then don't write what you cannot prove. Even on textual level it was shown clearly that Awaken's claims about Wu-Liu Pai teaching have no any support. More was written by Walker here http://www.thedaobums.com/topic/42478-learning-from-immortals/?p=723353. Other lies about Wu-Liu Pai, how it teaches qigong only or rob people, also have no factual support.