opendao

then Huang Di, Lao Zi, Zhang Boduan and many other high level Teachers of Dao don't have any demonstrable results.

Thanks not to hide now as in previous time. I understand what you're talking about but you really didn't follow what that lady wrote (and she disappeared about a few months after that conversation, showing her real intentions, you need to figure it out first before making any conclusions and accusing me personally). So it seems you jump in without really understanding the context. Same as your friend Aetherous: "It demonstrates a lack of virtue to disparage other traditions." Then he started to insult me and the school I'm learning in. But in my article about Learning from Immortals there is not a single word about "other traditions". Moreover, no words about Wu-Liu Pai, so the word "other" has no any sense... And no any comparison or even hidden thoughts that "our school is unique"... However he can insult and tell that I have no virtue, salesman, doing "sleazy marketing", do "false advertising" etc without even bothering to prove. And you zerotao did like it... Also, I heard many times some obvious insults to me personally just because I told some things that are against somebody's worldview or theories they keen on (like in the beginning, various qigong vs alchemy threads, GrandmasterP etc), and after every single post now we can see an evident trolling from Taoist Texts ("marketing meme" at least). So if you really against insulting, trolling and want to play a role of a police officer here, then maybe it has sense to figure out what's happening first... I see there is a lot of confusion about Wu-Liu Pai or me personally, that people didn't want to discuss for years. That's why I'm answering all that. But maybe you guys are tired and on the Daoist forum there is a small chance to talk about Daoism and the questions raised in the article? Instead of teaching me what to do, just do it by yourself, it'll be the best example for many, including myself. Hope for understanding. Cheers.

your humour is so recognisable, dear arhont.

So basically just emotions and willingness to teach? No probs then, but it doesn't make your words valid anyhow. Last question: did you inform anyone about your health issues and concerns?

There are no proves, and you know that. In general, I carefully weight words before putting them here or elsewhere. If I told something you don't like - argument. Last time you couldn't, because it's impossible to map XYP's theory to Daoist classics. But I had no any intention to insult you or anybody personal. And I respect people who stopped spreading false views, as you did. However, I don't like false schools like Vitalii's zhen dao, they brainwash people and it's obvious. You have an ability to see it and think critical, so it looks like you just have personal offences which I tend to apologise, you were a good man on a wrong side of things.

I also don't like what you do, but you have a freedom to say what you say. I removed that part for now just in respect of who you used to be.

very well put together. Obviously traditional Chinese approach is different from western, esp approach in united states. And as I told before it proved its efficiency. Let's don't forget that in the west there was alchemy, "european alchemy", and where it is now? So for all students we clearly state: real alchemy is a long process, a lot of challenges on the way, don't expect to get it fast and so on. But people tend to skip this part, thinking they are special, talented or they have a lot of quick alternatives... Human nature, it is so.

yes, that's the goal and so far it works fine: those who are able, they start to research deeper. For many people the main obstacle is that they even don't know that some things exist. So they don't try to pursue them.

good questions. Can you put them somewhere else (there are some WLP related threads, for example), because in this thread we have a lot of off-topics already? Thanks.

You cannot see it, because you don't know who is this guy hiding behind that misleading nickname. And you don't know his previous relationships with Daode Centre. Don't take it serious, for him it's just a foolish endless game without any sense. Bunch of personal emotions out of senile confused heart.

first of all, we never told that "all other schools are false" and "one's health can only be improved with this one Russian school's teachings". So it's just statements out of nothing. Second, the school is legit and students, who didn't fail initial challenges, did get very good results in improving their health, so out of few dozens we had only 2 people left due inability to learn (health issues, not because of our practice, but because of their previous practices or lack of healthy life style). Few people stopped for various reasons, including doubts, but then decided to resume. Obviously you failed to understand some basic things and failed to get results from the practice. That's what I'm telling about. Even the simple fact that Daogong needs 2-3 years to master. That's why its teaching slowly online, however in the beginning we tried as in regular groups - results were very poor from our standard. We're very keen on achieving the initial balance with this practice first, based on our teaching experience. As I told you lied about "false advertising". Now you're lying about reasons of leaving. This from your email, in Sep 2015, when you decided to leave: [personal email removed by request of Aetherous, however I''ll post it if he won't applogize for misleading statements he made] Obviously you're lying now about health issues here on forum, because you have a reason, while in the email you told the truth, because you had no reasons to lie. Shame? Ethics? Truth? No, Aetherous has no interest it that. Next time you're confused or don't understand something: ask and don't disgrace your name by false statements without any support.

arhont, I know that's what you hear every month, so definitely you know better about miserable life of shallow people who lie even to themselves.

just list everything you don't have dear arhont, including your inability to translate chinese texts

Golden light, "aura", "nimbus", is a sign, visible by other people (no special skills required), when Yangshen returns to the body. So it's one visible result of Yangshen. With Yinshen there is no golden aura. Good start )) But what's a chance to see such event? What are requirements for Yangshen to exit? Where it's usually done?

ok, at least something about results... Can you provide the source of such definition? And about "better kind of learning process": can you share any example of such "gateway"? It would be very interesting to hear about results of it as well. Criticism of false views is a traditional way to teach (see classics). The fact the Tradition is alive proves that the way is correct. If there is no distinguish between false and true, then there is no way to find a Teacher to learn "from heart-to-heart". Not many people can distinguish without critical thinking, so the major way is through explanations.

I'd prefer if people can elaborate it by studying texts... There are physical signs, some of them are known only by students, others sound so fantastic that I prefer not to write about them here... But even in English translations they are not hard to find. Please try, I'll help.

Thanks. I really see a lot of efforts made to know about us (yeah, it's hard, I know ). Good luck in your search and feel free to ask questions: we're planning to provide more materials, but prefer to focus on the practice, teaching students and research, so when we see some inquiry - we react. If nobody is interested, then there are a lot of things to do. Obviously 100000+ followers are not in our agenda, so for now we have a good small structure where people can learn. Yes, slowly and steady, starting with basics. But they can do it remotely and without learning Russian. I really suggest do no underestimate the preparatory methods (Daogong and Yuxianpai's practices) - they can help ordinary people to get a good destiny to learn the alchemy. In any traditional School !!! And they are very good to fix various health issues too. Daogong cannot be named "alchemical qigong", but its internal mechanism is based on the alchemical approach and knowledge, not on Qigong. So there are important differences.

And I mentioned other Traditions as well, where correct Method exists or has been at some point in time.... not to Dawei, but in general: Do you think our School haven't elaborated all that? Again: There is a Tradition of the Alchemy. The roots of it are very ancient, before China and Egypt. But historically mostly it was preserved in China. We know a few Schools in China who has preserved such methods. We know some Schools that preserved less efficient and not so ancient methods. We know some other Traditions in other countries. But all of them share the same methodology and have the same results. Yes, Wu-Liu Pai is one in this list, and it's possible to get personal results. But there is no way to read it as we are the only true school. There others and I'd be happy if you can find more, and I'm pretty sure that different people need different schools. But results are important, so not every school is worth trying.

So emotional... Are you in a good health? Those students who've started with you are much more balanced now... Just a coincidence, they continue, but you failed after a month. About your accusations. So you say that our "promotions and advertising" are false. What did we promise to you and didn't do? Second. I have no interest in any marketing. School's abilities to take new students are limited, and the number of perspective students is not much higher... The reason I'm writing is different, however you're so tired then cannot see anything else. Maybe because in your culture there is nothing else? Now imagine if you know a TCM doctor, who has invented a new energy meridian, trying to heal say cancer, but there is no result. Moreover, such a charlatan trying to brainwash you, that the sickness is not a sickness, but a sign of fortune or "it'll gone on its own". Do you need to learn his obviously fake method, or it's enough to see that there is no result? And if you see a harm out of such method, do you need to go an try it on yourself first? Or maybe it's better to treat it as a crime and inform people? So let me inform people. If you prefer not to listen, you're tired, boring or whatever - then just ignore and feel free to try as much schools as possible. Maybe in 1001 you'll get a success, who knows... But telling lies is not virtuous at all, so it's weird to hear such things from you about people who respected your willingness to learn and helped as much as possible. Have a good health.

Why? It's an important thing to understand, why in Daoism it looks so for you, while in Buddhism it looks different for you... But if retracted then retracted. Maybe it's not a proper time yet. Cheers.

It was discussed a few times here and there... Shortly speaking, yangshen and tianxian.

It's not so easy to find someone who has visual signs of achievements. Basically, it's as hard as to find a true Teacher. I've seen some interesting things, for me it's important that other know such things exist, so they can research further.

Probably later. Let's come to some understanding about results first and respond to critics

for thelerner: Feel free to criticise Wu-Liu Pai as being fake, people desperately have been trying that for 15 years But there is a simple fact: results in the School and its western branch are good enough to be sure to say what works and what not. And we're open for any critical approach from hard-to-find people with similar or greater results. for Dawei: you have an illusion of alternatives in Daoism, but long term practical researches show that there are no "other systems": or you understand the Tradition and get results, or you are sideways. There are a few Schools in Daoist Tradition, some in Chan Buddhism, some in other parts of the world, so it's not limited to one school. But the Method is the same. And Results are the same. So when "other systems" don't follow the methodology and don't get the milestone results, they are obviously out of the Tradition. Even if they resonate with your energy, it doesn't mean they have any value. Especially for newbies here... for Aetherous: Disparage other Traditions shows obviously lack of good, but telling truth about fake homemade "esoteric systems" is what all great Teachers in the Daoist Tradition did. As a westerner you don't like it, and I can understand why, but it's just a part of our cultural code. All Traditions are based on the ancient cultural code, it has a practical sense. Keyword is "sincerity", try to see from this angle.

There are a lot of discussions about Daoism, but very rare there is any understanding what Dao is and was for Daoists. Few quotes from various Daoist texts: Dao is empty, but things have forms. Dao is the source of all things. Dao has no form, it can be given but cannot be taken, it can be gained but cannot be seen. "The way", "principle" is just one level of understanding, very basic. For practising Daoists it means more then just a way of practice, but also a substance and final result of the Dao cultivation: In the Universe the most valuable are Dao and De, the most difficult to receive - human, for humans the most difficult - to receive Dao and De in own body.